Earn A Degree In Liberty (Univ of IL - Spgfld)

[Matt Collins]

Has it occurred to anyone here that you can learn things without spending tens of thousands on tuition going to college?

of course. Except that college is more about getting a shingle on the wall for credibility than it is about gaining knowledge.

 

[erowe1]

of course. Except that college is more about getting a shingle on the wall for credibility than it is about gaining knowledge.

Yeah, I get that. My comment was in response to the post I was quoting. I don't want to be negative about this program, since I really don't know anything about it. And, since I'm going on something like 13 years of college just to get a degree that will qualify me to do nothing other than teach in college so that other people can get the same degree to qualify them to teach the same thing and so on, with nothing being produced along the way other than books, I'm in no position to criticize it. But if the point of a Masters in Liberty is the credential, I'm skeptical about how valuable that credential is. It might well open doors I've never considered, but I'm skeptical.

 

[bobbyw24]

wouldn't getting a worthless degree be fiscally liberal?

yeah--like getting a law degree

 

[LibertyStudies]

Involved in Liberty Studies

What exactly do you mean by "involved in"?

Jan Narveson is on the academic advisory board the Center for Liberty Studies, and so is Scott Bullock. Narveson is also serving as a mentor for me this Spring for a customized course on libertarianism. Both Alexander and Jeff are officially on the first Liberty Studies degree committee right now. William Kline is the professor at UIS, and he is the leader of the Center for Liberty Studies.

 

[LibertyStudies]

Liberty Studies Tuition

Thats what libraries are for. IMO, you can't justify insane tuition costs, being gouged for textbooks like you're buying lunch at Disney Land, and paying out the ass for parking just to "learn."


How about I read his books and sit in on his lectures and avoid paying for a worthless degree...

On the former, UIS offers one of the lowest tuition options in the nation AND you can actually receive credit for professionally-oriented project credits (including paid work, which is what I am doing as a part of my degree). Again, a comment that does not reflect any research on this topic...

On the latter, please stop fantasizing about sitting in on fantasy lectures that you can't sit in on. Yet again, another comment that does not reflect any research on this topic...

 

[Golding]

Just imagine the damage done if such a degree actually became widely regarded. You'd actually have to have a degree in liberty to justify that you know what you're talking about. What's more, it's not so much knowledge of liberty, but having fulfilled a set of requirements that an institution regards as "liberty".

Economics has suffered from this as well. Whenever economics is entered into political debate, we're always told about however many thousands of people with economics degrees agree with whatever plan, and we're supposed to accept it even if our own experience says otherwise. More often than not, these individuals have spent years learning only one model of economic theory (Keynesian) because that's what schools require. I can't count the number of times I've disagreed with an article someone shows me when it's written by Paul Krugman, and the response is "What, you think you know more about economics than someone with a Nobel Prize in it?" Well, yes. If he's wrong, then no material symbol in the world can make up for it. Status is bullshit if you already have the knowledge.

 

[LibertyStudies]

Liberty Studies a Threat to Liberty? In What Parallel Universe?

Just imagine the damage done if such a degree actually became widely regarded. You'd actually have to have a degree in liberty to justify that you know what you're talking about. What's more, it's not so much knowledge of liberty, but having fulfilled a set of requirements that an institution regards as "liberty".

Economics has suffered from this as well. Whenever economics is entered into political debate, we're always told about however many thousands of people with economics degrees agree with whatever plan, and we're supposed to accept it even if our own experience says otherwise. More often than not, these individuals have spent years learning only one model of economic theory (Keynesian) because that's what schools require. I can't count the number of times I've disagreed with an article someone shows me when it's written by Paul Krugman, and the response is "What, you think you know more about economics than someone with a Nobel Prize in it?" Well, yes. If he's wrong, then no material symbol in the world can make up for it. Status is bullshit if you already have the knowledge.

Liberty Studies is a grave threat to liberty? In what parallel universe? LOL!

Only if those who value liberty avoid the academic field would those who are hostile to liberty be able to take it over. In reality, many liberty loving people are already engaged in Liberty Studies. Just look at the academic advisory board of the Center for Liberty Studies.

Your discouraging comment is ironic, because the only way Liberty Studies CAN be taken over is if those who truly value liberty are discouraged from engaging in Liberty Studies in the first place. Just "imagine the damage", indeed.

 

[LibertyStudies]

Liberty Studies - For More Information

Yeah, I get that. My comment was in response to the post I was quoting. I don't want to be negative about this program, since I really don't know anything about it. And, since I'm going on something like 13 years of college just to get a degree that will qualify me to do nothing other than teach in college so that other people can get the same degree to qualify them to teach the same thing and so on, with nothing being produced along the way other than books, I'm in no position to criticize it. But if the point of a Masters in Liberty is the credential, I'm skeptical about how valuable that credential is. It might well open doors I've never considered, but I'm skeptical.

I'd like to suggest that you contact the degree program to get your questions answered. As you seem to have noticed, people in this forum reflect their moods more than they reflect actual research. As a student in this program, I highly recommend it. But the next step to figuring this out for yourself is to contact the Liberty Studies professor from the Center for Liberty Studies. William E. Kline. He can be reached at wklin2 [at] uis.edu which of course you already knew if you read the link in the original post.

 

[t0rnado]

Enjoy collecting unemployment, while talking about the time you learned how immoral welfare was in college.

 

[james1906]

The degree is only worthless if you make it worthless.

I am sure some people like myself with an *worthless degree* in Political Science could use this masters degree to get a job with YAL, CFL, right to work, and other various political groups.

Why the hate?

I spent thousands of dollars on college and all I got was this unpaid internship.

 

[Golding]

Liberty Studies is a grave threat to liberty? In what parallel universe? LOL!

Only if the pro-liberty community avoids the academic field would the anti-liberty community be able to take it over. In reality, the pro-liberty community is already engaged in Liberty Studies. Just look at the academic advisory board of the Center for Liberty Studies.

Your discouraging comment is ironic, because the only way Liberty Studies CAN be taken over is if the pro-liberty community is discouraged from engaging in Liberty Studies in the first place. Just "imagine the damage", indeed.

I'm quite impressed at how you've mastered the current president's techniques of debate. Apply a false label to someone with a view that questions something you support ("Liberty Studies is a grave threat to liberty?") and ridicule that false label as though it wasn't manufactured by you on the fly. Did you learn that approach in your courses, or is it a natural talent of your own? Personally, I'm more fond of the approach of backing up an opinion with an example... you know, the thing I actually did.

So, who is this insidious "anti-liberty" community? How exactly do universities screen out such individuals from selecting a liberty major? How does the "pro-liberty community's" (likewise, whomever that may be) presence nullify the fact that the veracity of University of Illinois' concept of liberty is likely suspect?

I admire your quest to shill this product against even the slightest of naysayers, but the bottom line is I'm not quite sold on it. The very existence of an entity telling students, "This is liberty and if you take these courses you will officially be informed of the concept" strikes me as contradictory in and of itself. The idea that anyone ("pro-liberty" or not) be given extra credence based on a document saying they've taken a few classes, distracting to the strength of their argument, in a concept as fundamental as liberty is not appealing to me.

 

[LibertyStudies]

Liberty Studies: The Study OF Liberty, BY Liberty, FOR Liberty

I'm quite impressed at how you've mastered the current president's techniques of debate. Apply a false label to someone with a view that questions something you support ("Liberty Studies is a grave threat to liberty?") and ridicule that false label as though it wasn't manufactured by you on the fly. Did you learn that approach in your courses, or is it a natural talent of your own? Personally, I'm more fond of the approach of backing up an opinion with an example... you know, the thing I actually did.

So, who is this insidious "anti-liberty" community? How exactly do universities screen out such individuals from selecting a liberty major? How does the "pro-liberty community's" (likewise, whomever that may be) presence nullify the fact that the veracity of University of Illinois' concept of liberty is likely suspect?

I admire your quest to shill this product against even the slightest of naysayers, but the bottom line is I'm not quite sold on it. The very existence of an entity telling students, "This is liberty and if you take these courses you will officially be informed of the concept" strikes me as contradictory in and of itself. The idea that anyone ("pro-liberty" or not) be given extra credence based on a document saying they've taken a few classes, distracting to the strength of their argument, in a concept as fundamental as liberty is not appealing to me.

The degree program is student-designed, which is something you would have known if you would have done even the slightest bit of research on this topic.

1. It can include 12 credits designed by the student (for example, I am studying under Jan Narveson for 4 credits, and working professionally for another 4)
2. The thesis/project is designed by the student (another 4 credits)
3. The courses themselves are selected by the student (for example, only 2 of my classes are from the list of suggested Liberty Studies classes - and only because I chose them - and the rest of the classes were all my choice)

This is NOT a typical, authoritarian, top-down, a.k.a. upside-down degree program. Stop assuming that all of academia runs that way. There is a great deal of academic liberty in this specific program, which negates your concern about academic authoritarianism completely. Frankly, this is simply not something you would not ranting about if you had done even the slightest bit of research on this topic.

More importantly, the point you chided remains valid: if people who value liberty were to disengage from Liberty Studies, the academic field could be taken over by those who are hostile to liberty. This is not something to scoff at. This is reality. If everyone involved in Liberty Studies felt the way you did and exited the academic field, it would become a self-fulfilling prophecy that would, indeed, do unimaginable damage to liberty.

You need to take a step back and actually research this topic before faulting me for filleting your opinion.

This Liberty Studies program is the study OF liberty, BY liberty, FOR liberty, and it is here to stay. And the destiny of the academic field is in the hands of those who pursue it.

 

[LibertyStudies]

Liberty Studies and Professional Project Credits

Enjoy collecting unemployment, while talking about the time you learned how immoral welfare was in college.

Sarcasm meets irony: I already have a paid job as a direct result of being in this program, which I am actually receiving credit for while pursuing this degree... Cheers!

 

[LibertyStudies]

Liberty Studies vs. Botched Joke

I spent thousands of dollars on college and all I got was this unpaid internship.

Sarcasm meets irony: I already have a paid job as a direct result of being in this program, which I am actually receiving credit for while pursuing this degree... Cheers!

 

[james1906]

Sarcasm meets irony: I already have a paid job as a direct result of being in this program, which I am actually receiving credit for while pursuing this degree... Cheers!

I'll bite...what do you do?

 

[LibertyStudies]

Liberty Studies Credits

I'll bite...what do you do?

I'm working for the Leadership Institute this Fall, and the income will cover the cost of the entire semester (plus some).

 

[james1906]

Is that permanent?

 

[LibertyStudies]

Liberty Studies Project Credits

Is that permanent?

As I already planned out in my degree proposal, that is for the fall semester. I was also invited to an all-expenses-paid academic seminar, funded by Liberty Fund, and organized by ISI.

For the spring semester, I proposed and was approved for a tutorial and a closure project:
- The tutorial will be on libertarianism, under Jan Narveson
- The closure project will likely be writing a book (though I get to make my decision in the Spring)

If you can remember to ask, feel free to message me about the final result of my degree in Liberty Studies and which direction I went for the long-term. I'll have that information in the summer of 2011 -- being invited to an all-expenses paid academic seminar, studying under Jan Narveson, getting hired by the Leadership Institute, and having Jeff Frazee (YAL) and Alexander McCobin (SFL) on the first Liberty Studies degree committee are all good indicators of its appeal.

 

[james1906]

And when all that is over?

 

[LibertyStudies]

Liberty Studies and Future Career

And when all that is over?

Like I said, "if you can remember to ask, feel free to message me about the final result of my degree in Liberty Studies and which direction I went for the long-term. I'll have that information in the summer of 2011" -- being invited to an all-expenses paid academic seminar, studying under Jan Narveson, getting hired by the Leadership Institute, and having Jeff Frazee (YAL) and Alexander McCobin (SFL) on the first Liberty Studies degree committee are all good indicators of its appeal.