E-mail Received from the Constitution Party

You are supposedly a realist who doesn't think there is enough 'time' left to change the GOP from within...yet your solution is to advocate going third party, which has even less (practically zero) of a chance of restoring freedom in this country? I guess I just don't understand where you're coming from.
 
You are supposedly a realist who doesn't think there is enough 'time' left to change the GOP from within...yet your solution is to advocate going third party, which has even less (practically zero) of a chance of restoring freedom in this country? I guess I just don't understand where you're coming from.

I understand exactly where he's coming from. Furthermore, I think there's a lot to be said for a two-pronged attack--persuasion from within and a threat from without. His front involves showing the party regulars why change is necessary to survival, and it makes perfect sense. A party with its vote split cannot survive. Why do you think the G.O.P. talks unity so much?
 
I understand exactly where he's coming from. Furthermore, I think there's a lot to be said for a two-pronged attack--persuasion from within and a threat from without. His front involves showing the party regulars why change is necessary to survival, and it makes perfect sense. A party with its vote split cannot survive. Why do you think the G.O.P. talks unity so much?

Well I don't know how long the CP has been around but the LP has been at it for over three decades and its influence has been neglible -- or worse yet, counterproductive. All that time the libertarian/conservative vote has been split and the GOP has survived and even thrived (albeit in a mutated, big government fashion). This is much more than about parties...it's about trying to save the Republic. Why anyone would advocate abandoning the only semi-realistic means to do so is beyond me.

BTW I'm not shilling for the GOP or anything like that; I'll be voting LP in the fall. It's just obvious to me that the 3rd party approach has failed miserably and is extremely counterproductive in its mission.
 
BTW I'm not shilling for the GOP or anything like that; I'll be voting LP in the fall. It's just obvious to me that the 3rd party approach has failed miserably and is extremely counterproductive in its mission.

Dr. Paul's point exactly. The way I see it, we need to try to change the G.O.P. to either do it or prove it can't be done. I don't mind if people of good conscience are working on a safety net in the event of the latter.

Times change, and they're changing fast right now. The quagmire pissed people off, we made a splash, then the economy went in the tank just as Dr. Paul predicted. The Democrats went around chanting change and they're still at it, but as much as it's resonating, they've yet to actually specify anything that they would actually do differently.

I think it can all add up to something positive. Don't you? I assume you do. The G.O.P. has only seldom taken turns for the better in the past as well--and often those were in response to stimuli. Well, I say give 'em all the stimuli they can take.
 
Wealth is power. The little man isn't even getting let in the door.

I think most people who were upset with the GOP have likely already left it by either registering Democrat or Independent. And I have to agree with this mentality, because I think it is the most efficient way to deal with the problem and is more likely to bring about results in a quicker fashion than continuing to beat a dead horse.

Clearly, most people still left on the Forum can not let go of the GOP for one reason or another. The GOP of old is dead and I am not convinced it is coming back anytime soon.

Yet some people feel in their hearts that the best way to deal with it is to "beat the GOP from within", and slowly try to educate voters. Others feel that the way to deal with this Organization is to leave it and let it die on its own, realizing that the current GOP voter base really has no interest in what you have to say. That is the approach I have decided to take.

Good luck to those of you who want to continue "educating" voters. Your intentions are noble, but as a realist, I just don't see it happening anytime soon and to any real degree because you are preaching to people who don't want to be educated. We're just on 2 different paths in this regard.

And with that being said, after 1,197 posts ... this will be my final post to the RP Forums, as it is time for me to take a different direction than the rest of you ... as I have left the GOP. I wish you all the best of luck in your mission.

I think we should change the name of the Constitution Party to the Pity Party, as that seems to be all that you are using it for. Rome wasn't built in a day, son. This battle will last for at least 8 years, by which time we should have purged all of the old guard from office, and cease the party's support for neocon candidates.

If you don't want to be a part of it, that's fine. Don't bring the rest of us down with your self-pity.

Tough love, man. Tough love.
 
I think we should change the name of the Constitution Party to the Pity Party, as that seems to be all that you are using it for. Rome wasn't built in a day, son. This battle will last for at least 8 years, by which time we should have purged all of the old guard from office, and cease the party's support for neocon candidates.

If you don't want to be a part of it, that's fine. Don't bring the rest of us down with your self-pity.

Tough love, man. Tough love.

Unfortunately we do not have 4 to 8 years left. People are tired of the two-party system. All three "front" runner candidates are the same. When you mention "Republican" to people, they immediately think of Bush, Cheney, and McCain. I have fought for the Ron Paul movement. I have bought slim-jims, bumper stickers, signs, posters, etc. I firmly believe in Ron Paul's ideals. But again, we do not have the time left to try to work from within. The Republican party is locked by the old GOP guard and won't crack anytime soon. I was one of the trenchers, became a delegate at the county and CDC level. If you have not experienced the frustration of a GOP locked CDC, you cannot understand my level of frustration with the Republican party. Most of the old guard at the CDC were more interested in when lunch was served than in what was going on. The would not allow anything that might cause the convention to go longer. Debates were squashed, ideas trampled. objections yelled down. I have a digital recording of the Missouri CDC that I and my son attended. I am ashamed that I dragged my son into see such a debacle of rudeness. He is a young college student, just getting into this. I am quite a bit older, but see that I have to do something to make sure that he and every other young person has a future. There are more things brewing in government than just the presidential election fiasco perpetrated by the two-party system. We must push forward regardless. The time is ripe for a third-party push.
 
This isn't a ballgame. And you sure as Hell don't have time on your side for 9 innings, as rapid as this country is going down the tubes. What you want to accomplish is going to take years and years to accomplish ... in undoing what Bush has done to the Party. We don't have that kind of time, sadly ... and this is so blatantly obvious to those that are willing to step out of the box and look at it from the Outside.

Why would anyone want to keep a corrupt Party like this going?

A ball game is the exact correct analogy. In fact, the parties are all about team sports. Otherwise, this battle would be about ideology, NOT a big tent with all points of view welcome. How much more of a big tent could it be if closet Democrat McCain is our candidate.

So, it is a ballgame. And it is maybe the first inning. When will we turn the corner? My guess is at the two year mark. Remember, this is the first skirmish. In two years we'll have conventions again, and it won't be about president. It will be about us. And midterm year conventions have lousy turnout. If we merely show up, we will BE the party.

Then four years from now, let those miscreants running the party now try to steal elections when we're the ones counting the votes. Inning two.

Inning three? We win.

And if I hear the Constitution Theocratic Party blathering on about their paternalistic, nannying approach to the Constitution any more, I'm going to hurl. They are not at all about freedom. They are the Taliban wing of the old Republican Party. And they will have no more influence than the Libertarian Party because of the way ballot access laws are written. Joining the Constitution Party is a waste of time. I am not a happy Republican, but I'm going to stay at least until the seventh inning stretch, or the fat lady sings.
 
Unfortunately we do not have 4 to 8 years left. People are tired of the two-party system. All three "front" runner candidates are the same. When you mention "Republican" to people, they immediately think of Bush, Cheney, and McCain. I have fought for the Ron Paul movement. I have bought slim-jims, bumper stickers, signs, posters, etc. I firmly believe in Ron Paul's ideals. But again, we do not have the time left to try to work from within. The Republican party is locked by the old GOP guard and won't crack anytime soon. I was one of the trenchers, became a delegate at the county and CDC level. If you have not experienced the frustration of a GOP locked CDC, you cannot understand my level of frustration with the Republican party. Most of the old guard at the CDC were more interested in when lunch was served than in what was going on. The would not allow anything that might cause the convention to go longer. Debates were squashed, ideas trampled. objections yelled down. I have a digital recording of the Missouri CDC that I and my son attended. I am ashamed that I dragged my son into see such a debacle of rudeness. He is a young college student, just getting into this. I am quite a bit older, but see that I have to do something to make sure that he and every other young person has a future. There are more things brewing in government than just the presidential election fiasco perpetrated by the two-party system. We must push forward regardless. The time is ripe for a third-party push.

Nobody knows how much time we have. This country may have ended yesterday, or we may have fifty years. But bailing for a failed third party is not going to move things in our direction. Let me know when the Constitution Party has major party status in three states and even though I think that party is full of garbage, I'll sign up in the public square and swear eternal allegiance. Oh, and I won't hold my breath for now.
 
we've had this much sucess piggy backing on the GOP like an opportunistic bird picking ticks off of a bull. If we seperate from the GOP Ron Paul Republicans will just become another obscure third party that the media will not toch and no one will vote for, and we'll have to pay through the nose to get on ballots.

Time may not be a luxury we have, but it is a commodity we NEED. You cannot effect the sort of change we strive for in a few months. This is gonna take years, if not decades. Regardless of when we finally restore Americas honor, we will be tasked with lifting the nation out of the rubble rehabbing it and returning it to greatness, in whatever horrible future awaits the globe. The times make the man.
 
OK I don't know how much time we have "left'--it's like a woman's bioligical clock ticking--anything can set it off. ( :D ) I have trouble sleeping when I think about it, so I try to do something.

I have talked to thousands of people in the last 6 months and let me tell you here in SC and NC, the ground floor republicans are pissed at the gop and at bush. They don't like mccain being shoved down their throat and they are mad as hell about it. They see Hillary and Obama duking it out and wonder who's going to win that fight, and let me tell you, the hard core republicans here in the south "ain't to happy about pulling the trigger for Obama." endquote--you know what that means---

What we have is a conflicted republican base. They have been conditioned to follow the party no matter what happens. Now they are faced with voting for mccain, a liberal clothed in republican clothes, and they are starting to question what has become of their party and their country. The republicans in power want to keep that power no matter what happens, they'll go down with the ship, so to speak.

I can't describe fully the chills that ran down my back the other day when a hard core repub asked a candidate in a Q and A session "what do you know about the NAU, the amero, and the transcontinental corridor?" The floor was silent and then erupted into a free for all, the crazy thing was, everyone wanted to know more, they didn't know where to get accurate information. The idea of our nation being sucked into a "Euro" type union scares the crap out of these people. People that had supported the real ID and NAFTA were absolutely pissed off at not knowing what was really going on. (Don't judge, many of us didn't take the red pill until recently....) Of course the evening ended with emails being exchanged and conversations in the parking lot about the real ID, NAFTA, CAFTA etc. Not to mention China owning much of our debt and all of our manufacturing going overseas. NOT HAPPY FOLKS

We are doing a great job of trying to change the gop back to a more constitution based party, but it will take time, no revolution happened overnight. Join the clubs, get onto the executive committees, get in there more than just showing up at a convention. Some areas of the country will move faster than others-- it depends on particpation of RP people and informing people of what is really going on.

I really liked therealjjj77's post:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=133679&page=5

"Just a thought, the point is to try and make this kind of stuff NOT happen. We already know how they are programmed. Why insert the same code and get the same results? They all watch the same news channels and listen to the same radio. There is nothing about this to get emotional over. If you understand THEIR language, you can get in no problem and help change it from the inside out. The debate is not to be a forceful one but one more of friendly questions and a purely Constitutional and Declaration of Independence approach. That means you had to have read those. With that approach you can reprogram them with ease.

Yesterday at the district convention, I stood up against a platform plank that was being amended. The three people who spoke for it included one of our state senators, the chair of the convention, and an elderly lady. They all gave very well prepared speeches in favor of it. It was essentially a support for funding research and development in aging and chronic disease.

First, I maintained my credibility as a Republican up until that point(they do not need me overly zealous for Ron Paul to know that I support the Constitution and Declaration of Independence).

Second, I addressed the issue in their language:
"First, I want to commend the intent of this plank. Aging and chronic disease are a serious problem in our state and society. However, I disagree with the approach. There are always two ways in which a problem can be addressed. One way is the socialist way which involves more taxation and regulations. Well we know that hasn't worked and will continue to fail. The other way is the Republican approach, the conservative approach, and that is to remove the legislation and taxation barriers that prevent the free market from solving these problems. I do commend the intent of this plank, and commend those who have stood up in favor of it, but I cannot support it because of the approach it takes in dealing with this problem is a downward approach and will not achieve the results we desire."

By using their words and making this a clear affront to republicanism/conservatism I was able to sway the majority to vote it down(this was with about 20 Ron Paul people and 300 non-Ron Paul supporters). Conversely, I made the chair and our senator look like socialists. =D

Also, this is the same approach I took while on the district platform committee that morning in helping them to decide with me against that plank.

Moral of the story, if you go in there unaware of the words and actions that will turn them off to you, you will more then likely blunder and create an awkward situation.

But if you understand the language and approach that they are programmed to that they are accustomed to, then you'll have no problem making your way up the ranks and having an enormous influence.

To learn the way they think, first start with the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Then listen to Rush, Hannity, Fox News, Bill O'Reilly. You don't have to like them or everything they say, but just listen to the words they use. Observe how they never approach things with an emotional viewpoint but instead use a logical(or somewhat seemingly logical) approach. Go to some retirement homes and just listen to people. Also, stay level headed and always be the person to bring clarity to a subject. Always be very friendly with people and meet as many as you can. Shake hands with many of them and introduce yourself. Chit chat with them and talk about the price of gas and politics. But do more listening and agreeing with and you will learn a whole lot about how they stand. Talk about issues instead of candidates."

I couldn't have said it better!
 
Brad in DC,

I am somewhat new to the forums, so I am not sure if this is the correct place for this post. Please feel free to move it to a better location if necessary. I feel it is an important post to show how RP'ers are being treated. We are not alone in this.

Thank you,
Greywolf.

I gave up my special powers many months ago. I have a lot more fun now.

Anyone can flag a post and send a message to all of the mods by clicking on the upper right red triangle.
 
What we have is a conflicted republican base. They have been conditioned to follow the party no matter what happens. Now they are faced with voting for mccain, a liberal clothed in republican clothes, and they are starting to question what has become of their party and their country. The republicans in power want to keep that power no matter what happens, they'll go down with the ship, so to speak.

I like that post you quoted, too, rancher--don't know how I missed it the first time. Good stuff. I can only think of one thing to add. If you really want to know how to touch these older rank-and-file, not rich but patriotic conservatives at these conventions, get your hands on some WWII propaganda and use the language and references you find there. WWII was a defining moment in their lives no matter how young they were, and that language in those propaganda films was used for years afterward. It gets them.
 
Then let's fill the party with our people so those SOBs get squeezed right out the door!

It's not the GOP I like - its the ready made structure and access it offers us.

Otherwise we have to fight 2 battles. One battle just for the playing field before the real battle even gets started!

+1
 
You know, it's kind of sad I'm the first person to say this, but...

There's nothing to stop good people from working for change within the GOP while also supporting the LP or other parties, and voting for candidates regardless of party affiliation with whom we agree. I will say that the LP can always use your support, and the forces within the GOP who wish to act positively there can, too. There's nothing to stop you from promoting both in any number of ways. Heck, I'd even vote for a Democrat candidate if they had the right positions. And just why not? This isn't about party, it's about principle. The LP has long held the title of the party of principle, but that doesn't mean there's going to be a principled LP candidate on every, or even most, tickets. If there's a good Republican, they deserve our support as well.

Some people will never leave the GOP.
Some people want nothing to do with the GOP.
That's just the way it is, and those of us genuinely committed to the libertarian/classical conservative/classical liberal/whatever else you want to call it ideals espoused by Dr. Paul should promote those ideals in whatever way we can, in the GOP, in the LP, in the CP, and anywhere else that the opportunity presents itself.
 
Thank you mdh. I will not forget the principles of Ron Paul and will continue to work for the return of Constitutional principles in our government. My party affiliations will not stop that in the least.

Greywolf.
 
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