Dr. RON Paul's life at conception act

[TheGrinch]

If Hillary Clinton can flip on Gay marriage you can bet your bottom dollar Rand can flip on abortion and quietly drop his personhood bill if he succeeds at getting the nomination.

Flip flops are not new or uncommon.

Principle over politics or party, while I agree that he shouldn't focus on battles he isn't going to win, you really need to stop pushing this "anything to get elected" that will inevitably alienate his support base here. I remember even in the past you tried to push the "he's playing politics" on the Hagel nomination without any proof, and as it turned out later per his explanation and later filibuster, he wasn't, so you're being an absolutely terrible advocate for Rand, and it always seems to be on the divisive issues. I wonder why that is?

 

[jmdrake]

A vote against that unconstitutional joke called VAWA is easier to explain than a personhood bill BANNING abortions from California to New York. The media will go nuts as most of them are liberals from blue states anyway and are 90% Democrat. They don't need an excuse to start the war on women thing. The last thing they want to talk about is the economy. Give them a personhood bill and it's all we'll hear for months on end... and they will hammer Rand until his approval ratings are below water. Then what? President Clinton or Cuomo.

A) More people are against violence against women then are for abortion.

B) Rand's bill doesn't ban abortion even if he said it did. Any honest constitutional lawyer that read the bill will tell you this.

C) Rand's already introduced the bill so any damage from it has already been done. If you think "flip flopping" on it after winning the GOP primary will somehow when back whoever is alienated by this, then you don't have a clue about politics.

Good job, jmdrake.

Thank you.

I know you feel strongly about this issue but you dont understand how badly this will play and how costly it will be that's why if Rand is the nominee you will see him flip flop six ways until Sunday at the behest of his professional campaign people and GOP handlers.

If you think I feel strongly about this issue, then that just shows how utterly clueless you are about politics. Again we have the examples of recent history of how flip flopping hurts candidates. Your "counter" example is pro-choice Barry "people think he's going to start WW III" Goldwater. Enough said.

 

[jmdrake]

Seriously, the left cares, and would never vote for Rand anyway. I don't think that the center cares...

+rep

 

[Sola_Fide]

It's better to flip flop than lose in a landslide. Flip flops are not uncommon. Rand has to do what he has to do to win the primary but every consultant and every pollster will tell him to drop this immediately or he loses the White House in a Goldwater like landslide. So therefore, he will drop it if he is the nominee.

Congress would never pass it anyway so whats the point? As I said when GOP controlled everything they never passed anything like this and NO candidate in history has run on this... in 240 years. Rand wants to be the first to try and lose like Goldwater? Give me a break. He won't and he'll drop it.

I don't think this is good advice. I don't think any advice that brings Rand away from Ron's positions is good advice.

 

[Christian Liberty]

I don't think this is good advice. I don't think any advice that brings Rand away from Ron's positions is good advice.

Rand is already pretty far off, relatively speaking, from Ron. Granted, he's closer to Ron than he is to Obama, Romney, exc. but he's different in more than just trivial ways.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Rand is already pretty far off, relatively speaking, from Ron. Granted, he's closer to Ron than he is to Obama, Romney, exc. but he's different in more than just trivial ways.

I agree he's far off, but any advice that takes him even farther away from Ron is bad, bad advice.

Any advice that says Rand should be a Gary Johnson-type libertarian instead of a Ron Paul-type libertarian is the worst advice he could take. I am starting to see elements of the Gary Johnson-type libertarianism in Rand's campaign, and it is the worst mistake he can make. He will definitely lose if runs a Gary Johnson campaign.

 

[Christian Liberty]

I agree he's far off, but any advice that takes him even farther away from Ron is bad, bad advice.

Any advice that says Rand should be a Gary Johnson-type libertarian instead of a Ron Paul-type libertarian is the worst advice he could take. I am starting to see elements of the Gary Johnson-type libertarianism in Rand's campaign, and it is the worst mistake he can make. He will definitely lose if runs a Gary Johnson campaign.

Is Rand really more libertarian than Gary Johnson? I'd really have to compare their positions but they seem pretty similar. Granted, I like that Rand has more of a "Constitutional feel" over a "Fiscally conservative, socially liberal" feel but I really don't see too much difference between the two other than family affiliation. Rand is certainly closer to Gary than either is to Ron other than in name.

I'm not a huge fan of Gary but I would have voted for him in 2012 had I not been 17 at the time. He'd still be miles ahead of Romney or Obama. But I would agree with other principled libertarians that he wasn't nearly radical enough.

 

[Brett85]

Sure thing Mr. drama queen. The point is not yours or Ron or Rand's stance, it's your "you're either with us or the terrorists" schtick to those who disagree, as itshappening pushes "the sky is falling". You know good and well we're not all going to agree on this, just the opposite, but both of you in particular are only feeding the flames of division. Just stop already.

Can you point to a particular comment I made that you have a problem with? I believe I've simply given my opinion on this issue and on Rand's bill.

 

[ChristianAnarchist]

It's a well written "bill", if you like having government that is supposed to "protect" human rights it's pretty necessary to define what human life is. Of course life begins at conception, that's scientifically provable in that when you test a zygote for human DNA it comes up POSITIVE. Pretty conclusive to me.

You will note, however, the way the bill reads it designates that THE STATES are the proper place to address any crime of murder.

What I've been saying for a long time is that of course killing a fetus is murder, but God is the only one who has the "jurisdiction" to judge you for it. You want to murder your own pre-born kid, that's your business. I do not feel that I should be paying for your prosecution or incarceration. If you believe in God (I do) let God be the judge. It's not our business unless we are in the room and able to intervene (and then we would still be limited to trying to convince someone that it was the wrong thing to do).

 

[Christian Liberty]

It's a well written "bill", if you like having government that is supposed to "protect" human rights it's pretty necessary to define what human life is. Of course life begins at conception, that's scientifically provable in that when you test a zygote for human DNA it comes up POSITIVE. Pretty conclusive to me.

You will note, however, the way the bill reads it designates that THE STATES are the proper place to address any crime of murder.

What I've been saying for a long time is that of course killing a fetus is murder, but God is the only one who has the "jurisdiction" to judge you for it. You want to murder your own pre-born kid, that's your business. I do not feel that I should be paying for your prosecution or incarceration. If you believe in God (I do) let God be the judge. It's not our business unless we are in the room and able to intervene (and then we would still be limited to trying to convince someone that it was the wrong thing to do).

So how does this differ from killing your child after he/she is born? Or killing a fully grown adult?

If you're an anarchist than you should be advocating that private security agencies hunt down and kill these murderers, but they should still suffer the penalty for murder (This is also why I'll probably always be a minarchist and not an anarchist, you need a governmennt to prevent murder.... Yes they fail at it at present but in an anarcho-capitalist world in the present world people would just start mafia gangs to "Tax" people and "Wage war" and whatnot, there's really no difference other than on paper.

 

[Brett85]

I am starting to see elements of the Gary Johnson-type libertarianism in Rand's campaign, and it is the worst mistake he can make. He will definitely lose if runs a Gary Johnson campaign.

I agree. Rand had really been starting to sound a lot like Gary Johnson recently. That's why I'm glad he re-introduced his anti abortion legislation to distance himself from the Gary Johnson type libertarians.

 

[sailingaway]

I agree. Rand had really been starting to sound a lot like Gary Johnson recently. That's why I'm glad he re-introduced his anti abortion legislation to distance himself from the Gary Johnson type libertarians.

Just being a pro life Gary Johnson wouldn't be much to crow about.