Donald Trump Donald Trump on the View: Obama Needs to Show His Birth Certificate

[jmdrake]

Because it makes the people who push the issue look like racist kooks and delegitimizes all their other arguments. The provision discriminates foreign born citizens, it judges people based on where they were born. When you start judging people based on where they were born you really are getting into some muddy territory. It doesn't take a huge leap to get from there to Jim Crow laws.

Let's see. So you'd expand "birthright citizenship" to "You can automatically be an American if you really really like the idea"? Somebody stops over at a U.S. airport on their way to Canada an they're automatically a citizen? I know what I'm saying sounds crazy, but that's just taking your argument to its logical conclusion.

 

[crazyfacedjenkins]

But you can still be blackmailed for it, no?

I think that falls into the category of paid off and corrupted.

 

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Fine. Propose a constitutional amendment and try to get that provision changed. But simply ignoring parts of the constitution that we think are "bad" or "outdated" is what got us in the mess that we're in.

What about all this nullification talk??? Isn't that the same thing??

 

[dannno]

I think that falls into the category of paid off and corrupted.

No, it falls into the category of blackmail. You can choose not to take payoffs, but it's really hard to choose the route of being prosecuted and potentially executed for treason or whatever.

 

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Let's see. So you'd expand "birthright citizenship" to "You can automatically be an American if you really really like the idea"? Somebody stops over at a U.S. airport on their way to Canada an they're automatically a citizen? I know what I'm saying sounds crazy, but that's just taking your argument to its logical conclusion.

Seemed to work just fine during the early 20th century when millions of illegals came over and helped propel this place to the world empire you take for granted today.

 

[acptulsa]

What about all this nullification talk??? Isn't that the same thing??

Oh, no. All of this nullification talk is there to remind us that the Supreme Court's no better than we are, and if a jury thinks a law in unconstitutional they can refuse to convict anyone of violating it.

 

[Krugerrand]

No, it falls into the category of blackmail. You can choose not to take payoffs, but it's really hard to choose the route of being prosecuted and potentially executed for treason or whatever.

The blackmail angle is a legit concern. Let's face it .. Lord Barry hasn't been consistent with his messages. What better person to deliver the "watch your step Puppet Barry" than Trump? He's sufficiently eccentric that he can pull it off without losing street credibility. He surely would be on the same page as the puppet masters.

(but, if one were to argue Obama were not a citizen, would that not undermine any treason charge?)

 

[jmdrake]

Seemed to work just fine during the early 20th century when millions of illegals came over and helped propel this place to the world empire you take for granted today.

You missed the scenario I painted (as I thought you would) so let me spell it out again. The person I'm talking about doesn't end up staying in America! If someone happens to be born here while his parents stay over he's automatically a citizen. But his parents are not. Our law treats them differently. If we treat them the same then we either have tourists who choose not to stay being granted citizenship, or we deny citizenship to birthright babies.

 

[jmdrake]

What about all this nullification talk??? Isn't that the same thing??

No. Nullification, based on the 10th amendment, is when the states nullify unconstitutional federal statutes or edicts. You're talking about nullifying the constitution itself. The 10th amendment grants no such authority.

 

[dannno]

(but, if one were to argue Obama were not a citizen, would that not undermine any treason charge?)

Ya I thought about that, I'm not sure.. If one assumes he is a citizen, but not a natural born citizen, then I suppose he can be tried for treason. If he's not a citizen at all, then, well, I guess not.. but I'm sure they could get him on something similar to that.

 

[jmdrake]

Ya I thought about that, I'm not sure.. If one assumes he is a citizen, but not a natural born citizen, then I suppose he can be tried for treason. If he's not a citizen at all, then, well, I guess not.. but I'm sure they could get him on something similar to that.

Here's a more important reason why it matters. If Obama's not a natural born citizen then he's not really president and he's not really commander in chief and the soldiers under his command aren't. When Bush was president a soldier tried to get out of going to Iraq based on it being an illegal war and lost. (He did get a less than honorable discharge so I guess that was a half victory). Under the Obama presidency a soldier has attempted to avoid going to Afghanistan based on Obama not being president, and the government mooted the case!

 

[Krugerrand]

Here's a more important reason why it matters. If Obama's not a natural born citizen then he's not really president and he's not really commander in chief and the soldiers under his command aren't. When Bush was president a soldier tried to get out of going to Iraq based on it being an illegal war and lost. (He did get a less than honorable discharge so I guess that was a half victory). Under the Obama presidency a soldier has attempted to avoid going to Afghanistan based on Obama not being president, and the government mooted the case!

I'd enjoy if somebody that knew more than me would start a thread on the chances a soldier would have for refusing orders for Libya based on the war not be authorized by Congress.

 

[qh4dotcom]

New interview....Trump keeps talking about Obama's birth certificate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S0WL_2XgVA

 

[USAF_Saylor]

While I agree that Obama should show his long-form birth certificate, to make it obvious to the nay-sayers, but in reality it is a moot point. Why? Because regardless of what his birth certificate says, Obama would still NOT be constitutionally eligible for office based on his own statements. Allow me to explain:
The Constitution was constructed under the principles of Natural Law and Liberty. Under Nature Law one was a “natural-born citizen” of the father’s bloodline – it has NOTHING to do with the location of the birth itself (as most erroneously assume). A child is a “natural-born citizen” of whichever nation his father is a citizen of. This truth is flatly stated in the Law of Nations, a body of thought that the Framers agreed with so much that they specifically named it in the Constitution (ref. U.S.C. Section VIII – “To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;”). The idea is that a President should not have dual citizenship nor split alliances, for obvious reasons, so the provision (under Art. II.,Sec. I, Clause V) for all Presidents is that they must be natural-born citizens.

With this background, let’s look to certain facts regarding Obama. President Obama himself has publically stated that he is the son of Barack Hussein Obama Sr. who was at no time in his life a citizen of the United States, but rather a citizen of Kenya which was a territory of the British Crown at the time of Obama Sr.’s birth. As such, even if Pres. Obama was born in Hawii he would still NOT be a natural-born citizen of the United States.

 

[qh4dotcom]

While I agree that Obama should show his long-form birth certificate, to make it obvious to the nay-sayers, but in reality it is a moot point. Why? Because regardless of what his birth certificate says, Obama would still NOT be constitutionally eligible for office based on his own statements. Allow me to explain:
The Constitution was constructed under the principles of Natural Law and Liberty. Under Nature Law one was a “natural-born citizen” of the father’s bloodline – it has NOTHING to do with the location of the birth itself (as most erroneously assume). A child is a “natural-born citizen” of whichever nation his father is a citizen of. This truth is flatly stated in the Law of Nations, a body of thought that the Framers agreed with so much that they specifically named it in the Constitution (ref. U.S.C. Section VIII – “To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;”). The idea is that a President should not have dual citizenship nor split alliances, for obvious reasons, so the provision (under Art. II.,Sec. I, Clause V) for all Presidents is that they must be natural-born citizens.

With this background, let’s look to certain facts regarding Obama. President Obama himself has publically stated that he is the son of Barack Hussein Obama Sr. who was at no time in his life a citizen of the United States, but rather a citizen of Kenya which was a territory of the British Crown at the time of Obama Sr.’s birth. As such, even if Pres. Obama was born in Hawii he would still NOT be a natural-born citizen of the United States.

Nice 1st post

 

[R3volutionJedi]

I'm glad Trump is speaking up.

 

[Pillowpants]

This was put to rest more than three years ago, sorry to break it to you birthers... http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

I really like Ron Paul but it seems the neocons have seen the error in their politics and now support Ron Paul but haven't developed critical thinking skills.

 

[USAF_Saylor]

This was put to rest more than three years ago, sorry to break it to you birthers... http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

I really like Ron Paul but it seems the neocons have seen the error in their politics and now support Ron Paul but haven't developed critical thinking skills.

If you would care to read my post (about 3 up from here) you'll find that the birth certificate issue is moot anyway for even if the BC is valid Obama still would not meet the Constitutional standard for being a natural-born citizen; which is why I posted the information in the first place. As such, until you can answer my above post I will happily wear the banner of Birther. How is that for critical thinking skills?
Also, I read the article you linked to but it was suspiciously quiet on why Obama has spent so much $$ for lawyers to hide the long-form BC. If it is legit then why go through the expense and effort?

 

[USAF_Saylor]

Nice 1st post

Thank you, just trying to do my part. And I like to come in with a bang.

 

[economics102]

You know what? Trump is right on this issue. IMHO it's outrageous that Obama hasn't provided his birth certificate to the public.

Not because I think Obama's not a US-born citizen, though the refusal to release the certificate certainly makes one a little suspicious that there's SOMETHING on there he doesn't want released. But even if there's absolutely nothing out of the ordinary with it, it's more about the arrogance at this point.

Obama ran for and was elected to the highest office of this country. One of the official job requirements for eligibility of that office is to be a natural born citizen of this country. If there's any interest by the public to see the document affirming that, it should be made available if possible.

Robert Gibbs recently made some comment along the lines of "we're not going to dignify [the birthers] by furnishing the certificate." What incredible arrogance. They owe everyone that certificate because it's a fucking iob requirement of the office. If I was on a job interview and it was going amazingly well and it was clear I was going to be hired and the employer asked for the contact info to confirm my resume with my past employers as a formality, and I refused, offended, I shouldn't be surprised when I don't get the job.

There's a saying, "trust but verify." When we're talking about the highest office in the country, it's absolutely ridiculous for someone to take offense to the people requesting to confirm for themselves documents that are part of the eligibility requirements.

I used to think the issue with Obama's birth certificate was that for whatever reason they couldn't find the original long-form certificate and the birther movement was just crying conspiracy based on Obama's legitimate inability to produce an original document. And so I didn't take them seriously and even felt a little bad for Obama, that he couldn't confirm his probably-legitimate birth record. Now since learning that the Hawaii government HAS the document and Obama simply isn't instructing them to release it, now I feel like Obama is being a giant douchebag about it and now it makes ME suspicious of what's on that certificate.

If I had to speculate I think most likely the certificate is completely normal and at this point Obama is withholding it because it's to the Democrats advantage to have a bunch of "crazy tea partiers" up in arms ranting like lunatics about Obama being born in Kenya.