Does Ron want us to leave the GOP?

[erowe1]

The fact that they "stumbled" in to the office only adds to the point that we should at least hang around the party.

Good point. I agree.

 

[speciallyblend]

I seem to recall Ron endorsing Chuck Baldwin in 2008.

Vote 3rd party in the General please. I'm sure Ron has an endorsement in mind, and it won't be Romney. Johnson, Goode, whoever.

do not count out a johnson endorsement just yet. It would be the smartest endorsement. I voted chuck baldwin last time but will be supporting Gary johnson this time, especially since colorado is a swing state and romney is a dead man walking into the general and colorado. after what the rnc/gop/romney camp did to ron paul. I hope ron paul considers vp to johnson if possible. Rand is not an option for me unless he calls out the liars,cheaters and thieves live on stage tonight. I vow to never support anyone that supports romney! GJ2012 over Obamney for me!

 

[jhk07]

You must have missed the cheating that went on yesterday.



A political party is an inanimate object. Why would I care about it? What I care about is my freedom, for me and for my countrymen. I see the Republican Party as a mechanism to accomplish that.

As we get more liberty candidates elected, it will of course infuse more libertarian principles back into the Republican Party; just as we will, as we keep getting elected to leadership positions in the GOP across the country. Education is a part of this too, if that is what you are getting at. Like Dr. Paul mentioned during the Rally, that has to go along with this too, if we are going to be successful.

I also think it's important to distinguish between the GOP establishment Insiders and the rank-and-file Republicans. It was the establishment that royally screwed us yesterday. But, groups from the tea party, Cain supporters, Bachmann supporters and FreedomWorks are really upset about the rule changes.

If we keep going and the grassroots can wrestle control of the GOP away from the establishment insiders, it will follow that the Republican Party will become a lot more "loveable".

They hand picked their own delegates. The deck is staked. 4 Aces will never beat five. When you get 6, they'll have 8. You can't wrestle and win, when you are out numbered. The Republic way is dying, and they are making the the rules to kill it dead. We are becoming a democratic society, and stupid people will rule, cause lord knows there a lot more of them than us. The "establishment" is going to do what they want. There is no way to win nicely.


oohhh, I think YOU missed the cheating yesterday. It's also great we have a few groups who are "really upset" about the rule changes.

 

[Carlybee]

You're right. That doesn't seem to be your problem.

As for reading comprehension, on the other hand, well, improving it could have a positive effect on your blood pressure. The only thing you've said that I disagree with is your assertion that you disagree. Which is hard to believe when the conversation goes like this:

Person: I say x.


You: You're wrong! The truth is x!

Not my problem how you percieve tone and inflection on the internet. If I disagree I will say so and I expect people to fight their own battles. Why are so concerned how I responded to someone else's post? As always these are opinions and everyone has one.

 

[LibertyEagle]

They hand picked their own delegates. The deck is staked. 4 Aces will never beat five. When you get 6, they'll have 8. You can't wrestle and win, when you are out numbered. The Republic way is dying, and they are making the the rules to kill it dead. We are becoming a democratic society, and stupid people will rule, cause lord knows there a lot more of them than us. The "establishment" is going to do what they want. There is no way to win nicely.

While the new rules are still there, you're right, I don't see how we could ever win the presidency, but what about all those tons of other offices we can fill? Winning the presidency, even without the rule changes, was always a longshot and it will remain that way until we get a lot of minds changed. But, the Congress, state and local offices are another thing, entirely. Those we can fill the hell out of.

Oh, and if George Washington and the continental army could defeat the largest and best trained army in the world, I would think that we might be able to figure out how to kick a handful of establishment insiders out of the GOP Rules Cmte.

 

[Carlybee]

You must have missed the cheating that went on yesterday.



A political party is an inanimate object. Why would I care about it? What I care about is my freedom, for me and for my countrymen. I see the Republican Party as a mechanism to accomplish that.

As we get more liberty candidates elected, it will of course infuse more libertarian principles back into the Republican Party; just as we will, as we keep getting elected to leadership positions in the GOP across the country. Education is a part of this too, if that is what you are getting at. Like Dr. Paul mentioned during the Rally, that has to go along with this too, if we are going to be successful.

I also think it's important to distinguish between the GOP establishment Insiders and the rank-and-file Republicans. It was the establishment that royally screwed us yesterday. But, groups from the tea party, Cain supporters, Bachmann supporters and FreedomWorks are really upset about the rule changes.

If we keep going and the grassroots can wrestle control of the GOP away from the establishment insiders, it will follow that the Republican Party will become a lot more "loveable".

Nope been watching the cheating since 08. Was witness to it back then. It just sounded like the mission was just to have a vehicle and if so then I don't know why anyone would expect a different result. I've made no bones about how I feel about the GOP and their tainted brand...I just think one can't say on one hand we want to save the party and on the other hand..oh we're just using the party without sending a conflicting message. JMO

 

[LibertyEagle]

Nope been watching the cheating since 08. Was witness to it back then. It just sounded like the mission was just to have a vehicle and if so then I don't know why anyone would expect a different result. I've made no bones about how I feel about the GOP and their tainted brand...I just think one can't say on one hand we want to save the party and on the other hand..oh we're just using the party without sending a conflicting message. JMO

If I said up, you would say down.

Have fun trying to wreck whatever people allow you to wreck.

 

[Carlybee]

If I said up, you would say down.

Have fun trying to wreck whatever people allow you to wreck.

Truth hurts? Some of you can't seem to tolerate any disagreement about anything. This is my opinion. I am not telling you how to think or proceed.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Truth hurts?

Yeah, that must be it, Carlybee.

 

[Occam's Banana]

Just food for thought here....if we take over the GOP and Democratic party at the local and state levels, we COULD repeal the laws making ballot access for third parties difficult. We could remove the discrimination towards third parties by continuing to become and take over the GOP and "opening the flood gates" so to speak. What do you guys think?

Ah, but if we take over the Republicrats, why would we even need a 3rd party?

Serously, though. Ballot access laws aren't the problem - which is NOT to say that they shouldn't be eliminated. But even if you got rid of every one of them, there would *still* be only two major parties, and minor parties would fare no better than they do now.

The problem is that our electoral system is "winner-take-all." Only one of a group of one-to-several candidates can win in any given arbitrarily-defined geographical region. This inevitably results in the development of only two parties with any serious "clout."

Just look at American history. Regardless of any "contingent" or "transient" factors (such as ballot access restrictions), there have only *ever* been two major parties at any given time.

There are only two ways that political movements have ever succeeded in establishing themselves as a major political party in America:

(1) by forming from the remnants of (or by filling the void left by) another major party that has, for whatever reason(s), become defunct, OR

(2) by taking over an already-existing major party from within.

An example of (1) is the Republican party itself, which arose from the remains of the dissolute Whig party.

An example of (2) is the Progressives' takeover of the Democrats.

The two-party nature of American politics is a fundamentally inherent & systemic peculiarity of the US electoral system.

Unless and until we are able to replace plurality representation with proportional representation (or something operationally similar), 3rd-party & independent bids for political power are doomed to fail (regardless of ephemera such as ballot access laws).

This is why - like it or not (and I most assuredly do NOT like it) - working within the GOP is (currently) the only course that has any chance in hell of achieving (electoral) success.

 

[cajuncocoa]

I haven't heard anyone mention how they plan to finance this new GOP once the corrupt corporate money dries up. You won't be able to defeat the Democratic party machine with grassroots financing alone. There's a reason the two parties have had a monopoly...if you don't play that game, you'll be in no better position than a fledgling 3rd party. That being the case, why wear the tainted brand's label?

 

[LibertyEagle]

I haven't heard anyone mention how they plan to finance this new GOP once the corrupt corporate money dries up. You won't be able to defeat the Democratic party machine with grassroots financing alone. There's a reason the two parties have had a monopoly...if you don't play that game, you'll be in no better position than a fledgling 3rd party. That being the case, why wear the tainted brand's label?

Every single one of our liberty candidates is a Republican. It IS working..

 

[cajuncocoa]

Every single one of our liberty candidates is a Republican. It IS working..

Not nationally... those candidates are small potatoes compared with running for POTUS.

 

[Occam's Banana]

I haven't heard anyone mention how they plan to finance this new GOP once the corrupt corporate money dries up. You won't be able to defeat the Democratic party machine with grassroots financing alone. There's a reason the two parties have had a monopoly...if you don't play that game, you'll be in no better position than a fledgling 3rd party. That being the case, why wear the tainted brand's label?

I haven't heard anyone mention how they plan to finance this new fledgling 3rd party without corrupt corporate money. You won't be able to defeat the Establishment machine with grassroots financing alone ...

 

[libertygrl]

Does Ron Paul want us to leave the GOP, or stick around and hold our ground in an attempt to win more rank-and-file Republicans over to our side?


Judging from his history, what do YOU think he would want us to do?

I believe in his rally speech he said that he wants us to stay so that WE become the tent.

 

[Lucille]

“Believe me, we will get in the tent because we will become the tent.”
--Ron Paul

People can do what they want. I'm staying, to purge the CINOs, RINOs, and Neo-Trots (BIRM).

I have to work the GOP tent at the county fair this weekend. I won't be marketing for Obamney however, but for down ticket Republicans. And if the party bosses don't like it, they can http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frFfQsDYeA4 .

 

[cajuncocoa]

I haven't heard anyone mention how they plan to finance this new fledgling 3rd party without corrupt corporate money. You won't be able to defeat the Establishment machine with grassroots financing alone ...

I didn't say we could; I realize what we're up against no matter which party label we hang on ourselves. Those who want to remain in the GOP don't seem to understand that the current structure will not remain the same if principled people were successful in taking it over, however.

So....what's the plan for raising the million$ that will be needed?

 

[tony m]

No.

Work the system.

Leaving puts you back outside where you will be out of the rigged game. If your not in the game your just holding the camera.

 

[Rocco]

There will always be a climate for business owners large and small to donate to candidates who advocate policies that stimulate growth. You act as if all business is created by corrupt government, and that is nonsense. For every General Electric who donates millions because they benefit from the crony regulation scam there's also their entire base of competitors who are being stifled by that regulation. By setting up this new paradigm we would make fundraising a much easier battle to fight.

I didn't say we could; I realize what we're up against no matter which party label we hang on ourselves. Those who want to remain in the GOP don't seem to understand that the current structure will not remain the same if principled people were successful in taking it over, however.

So....what's the plan for raising the million$ that will be needed?

 

[TCE]

I'll amend my statement slightly: If you are in a deep-blue or deep-red area (Congressional District, or your immediate surroundings), you should attempt to gain influence there. Sure, if you try and get into the opposite party, then sure, you may have influence every four years, but every other time, it won't matter. Your best bet is to conform to your surroundings.

I live in Chicago. The GOP here is a wasteland. Mark Kirk got elected because of both his positions and because he knew some influential people. Working inside the GOP here won't bear any fruit. Thus, I am almost exclusively involved with Democrats and far-left liberals. It's not a bad thing, it is what it is. I have actually swayed some people to realizing that their preferred party is not the best option to accomplish the goals of: getting out of war, end the bailouts of bankers, and end Big Pharma's control over the nation. Until I move (hopefully to New Hampshire), the Democratic Party is what I have, even though I am registered Republican currently because of Dr. Paul, and I'm sure the same can be said of those liberty lovers who live in places like where I do.