Does anyone on here think President Trump was a dictator or will become one if re-electe

If Trump is re-elected to a second term, do you think he will become a dictator?


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It's really not that unbelievable, honestly. I'll go with that one.

It's no secret that a lot of the old guard don't like Trump.

Are judges that he appointed also part of the old guard?


They want to go back to coronating neocons in scripted conventions reading teleprompters, but since 2016 a lot of regular ol' voters have this crazy notion that they actually can choose the president.

It's a wacky world we live in where the same people who say that they support small government, states rights, and the ability of people to choose their leaders are also the ones lining up to tongue the taint of a guy who wanted the federal government to overrule states' election processes and replace their electors with stooges hand-picked by his personal lawyer.
 
Does anyone on here think President Trump was a dictator or will become one if re-electe

[Trump's] corrupt attempts to overturn election results certainly suggest that he has that tendency.

With rare exceptions (such as Coolidge and ... ummmm ... well, such as Coolidge), every president since at least (and, of course, including) Lincoln has exhibited such a "tendency" to some degree or another. Two of the most notable were the Roosevelts, Theodore and Franklin (one being a Republican and the other a Democrat, should anyone still be laboring labor under the illusion that this is a partisan phenomenon). Treating Trump as if he is somehow special or different in this regard (either for better or worse) ultimately just boils down to personality-cult bullshit.

The source of the "tendency" is the system itself. The system evolves the personages, not the other way around. Like the modern U.S., the late Roman Republic was a basket case of dysfunctions. Several men, each in his own way, tried to "fix" it. Sulla became dictator in the name of preserving the Roman Republic in defiance of its circumstances. He failed. Julius Caesar became dictator in the name of adjusting the Republic to its circumstances. He failed, too (and got merked, to boot). Octavian became imperator (turbo-dictator) and delivered the Republic its coup de grâce - because he understood that the Republic's gig was finally up. Republics (at least the overweeningly expansive ones) become empires - and it takes an emperor to rule an empire.

Whether someone - Trump, or anyone else - becomes "dictator" of America (formally, or de facto) has relatively little to do with the "tendencies" of the person himself, and far more to do with the nature and "logic" of culturally-multifarious, continent(s)-spanning republics-cum-empires.

IOW: It is not the "tendency" of Trump (or of Biden, Obama, Bush, Clinton, et al.) to corruption and dictatorship that produces the system - it is the "tendency" of the system to corruption and dictatorship that produces Trump (and Biden, Obama, Bush, Clinton, et al.). Trump and Biden are just the latest iterations of the process.

In the absence of secession (or some other form of dis-integration), eventually - and at this point, probably sooner than later - we will be getting our Octavian.
 
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Are judges that he appointed also part of the old guard?

Given Trump's lousy record of "hires" ... sure. Why not?

Seems kinda likely, in fact.

It's a wacky world we live in where the same people who say that they support small government, states rights, and the ability of people to choose their leaders [...]

Well, after all, believing that states have rights - and that "the people" are any better than Trump at appointing "public servants" - is pretty wacky to begin with, so ...

[...] are also the ones lining up to tongue the taint of a guy who wanted the federal government to overrule states' election processes and replace their electors with stooges hand-picked by his personal lawyer.

*shrug* That sound kinda like how they already do things, more or less - just with some extra steps.
 
IOW: It is not the "tendency" of Trump (or of Biden, Obama, Bush, Clinton, et al.) to corruption and dictatorship that produces the system - it is the "tendency" of the system to corruption and dictatorship that produces Trump (and Biden, Obama, Bush, Clinton, et al.). Trump and Biden are just the latest iterations of the process.

In the absence of secession and disintegration, eventually (and at this point, probably sooner than later), we will be getting our Octavian.

I see what you mean, but if I were to rephrase slightly I would say that the system attracts the Trumps, etc. rather than creates them.
 
Given Trump's lousy record of "hires" ... sure. Why not?

Seems kinda likely, in fact.

As @acptulsa said upthread, Trump worshipers ascribe to a mythology that paints him as both infallible and incapable. Does he have "all the best people" or have all his appointees betrayed him? The myth claims that he is the greatest leader and politician our time but yet was completely unable to accomplish anything, all as a result of an unfathomably complex series of backstabs and failures on the part of everyone except Trump.

It amounts to credulously believing a young child's convoluted, implausible story of who broke the window.


Well, after all, believing that states have rights - and that "the people" are any better than Trump at appointing "public servants" - is pretty wacky to begin with, so ...

Then why pretend it's all for freedom and liberty and individualism? If they want a monarch, they should call for his coronation.



*shrug* That sound kinda like how they already do things, more or less - just with some extra steps.

Fewer steps. No election, just 538 party stooges in a basement fraudulently claiming to be electors.
 
Ask yourself which is more likely:
- Every judge, regardless of ideology and party, across nine states, the District of Columbia, and the Supreme Court, are all part of a vast conspiracy to keep Trump out of office

It's really not that unbelievable, honestly. I'll go with that one.

It's no secret that a lot of the old guard don't like Trump. [...]

One doesn't even need an "old guard" to explain it - nor any "vast conspiracy" (beyond the commonplace coincidence-of-interests kind of "conspiracy").

Even the most Trump-friendly judges (whether appointed by him or not) are apt to be extremely gun-shy when it comes to pulling the trigger on something so fraught and momentous as seriously questioning or challenging (let alone actually overturning) a U.S. presidential election - quite regardless of how good the reasons for such questions or challenges might be assumed to be (even if only for the sake of argument). At the very least, any judge who did so would almost certainly be saying goodbye to any aspirations to higher judicial position he might have had (not to mention the aspiration of merely keeping the position he already has).
 
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At the very least, any judge who did so would almost certainly be saying goodbye to any aspirations to higher judicial position he might have had (not to mention the aspiration of merely keeping the position he already has).

Of course, this doesn't explain the action of the Trump-picked SCOTUS justices who ruled against pro-Trump plaintiffs. SCOTUS justices (you can't get higher than that) have life tenure, and it's extremely unlikely that they could ever be impeached for making an unpopular ruling, despite popular calls for such action -- e.g., "Impeach Earl Warren!" following the Brown decision (never mind that decision was unanimous).

The fact that the Court overruled Roe v. Wade suggests that it isn't gun-shy about making momentous rulings. One could also point to Bush v. Gore.
 
Of course, this doesn't explain the action of the Trump-picked SCOTUS justices who ruled against pro-Trump plaintiffs. SCOTUS justices (you can't get higher than that) have life tenure, and it's extremely unlikely that they could ever be impeached for making an unpopular ruling, despite popular calls for such action -- e.g., "Impeach Earl Warren!" following the Brown decision (never mind that decision was unanimous).

The fact that the Court overruled Roe v. Wade suggests that it isn't gun-shy about making momentous rulings. One could also point to Bush v. Gore.

I think anything positive coming from that court can be explained as accidental. It is comprised mostly of people with limited comprehension. how hard is "Shall not be infringed "?
 
One doesn't even need an "old guard" to explain it - nor any "vast conspiracy" (beyond the commonplace coincidence-of-interests kind of "conspiracy").

Even the most Trump-friendly judges (whether appointed by him or not) are apt to be extremely gun-shy when it comes to pulling the trigger on something so fraught and momentous as seriously questioning or challenging (let alone actually overturning) a U.S. presidential election - quite regardless of how good the reasons for such questions or challenges might be assumed to be (even if only for the sake of argument). At the very least, any judge who did so would almost certainly be saying goodbye to any aspirations to higher judicial position he might have had (not to mention the aspiration of merely keeping the position he already has).

I mean, this should be self-evident by now... But TheCount knows this. Just running interference.

"coincidence-of-interests" have happened throughout the history of the world and our country - always documented in retrospect. But there's always sycophants who pretend like that could never happen this time.
 
One doesn't even need an "old guard" to explain it - nor any "vast conspiracy" (beyond the commonplace coincidence-of-interests kind of "conspiracy").

Even the most Trump-friendly judges (whether appointed by him or not) are apt to be extremely gun-shy when it comes to pulling the trigger on something so fraught and momentous as seriously questioning or challenging (let alone actually overturning) a U.S. presidential election - quite regardless of how good the reasons for such questions or challenges might be assumed to be (even if only for the sake of argument). At the very least, any judge who did so would almost certainly be saying goodbye to any aspirations to higher judicial position he might have had (not to mention the aspiration of merely keeping the position he already has).

I mean, this should be self-evident by now... But TheCount knows this. Just running interference.

"coincidence-of-interests" have happened throughout the history of the world and our country - always documented in retrospect. But there's always sycophants who pretend like that could never happen this time.

I disagree.


In the current political environment, any sufficiently outspoken figure is showered with attention, praise, and money. The House is full of examples of entirely worthless, nonproductive politicians who nonetheless dominate the media environment and have come to represent their "sides" of society purely by striving to be the loudest partisan in the room.
 
At the very least, any judge who did so would almost certainly be saying goodbye to any aspirations to higher judicial position he might have had (not to mention the aspiration of merely keeping the position he already has).

Way to go, snipping my remark out of all its preceding context - and then replying as if that remark had failed to adequately account for some critical factor. That's some truly lawyer-like behavior, there!

But given that even the bit your retained explicitly refers to the "aspirations to higher judicial position [a judge] might have", I was quite clearly not referring to SCOTUS judges - precisely because they have no such aspirations, as there is no higher judicial position to which they can advance. I'd have thought this was rather obvious, but apparently not ...

Of course, this doesn't explain the action of the Trump-picked SCOTUS justices who ruled against pro-Trump plaintiffs.

Of course it doesn't explain it - apart from the fact that I wasn't referring to SCOTUS (obviously - see above), merely "rul[ing] against pro-Trump plaintiffs" (on the one hand) and "seriously questioning or challenging (let alone actually overturning) a U.S. presidential election" (on the other hand) are not even remotely commensurable things. My remarks explicitly concerned the latter, not the former.

SCOTUS justices (you can't get higher than that) have life tenure, and it's extremely unlikely that they could ever be impeached for making an unpopular ruling, despite popular calls for such action -- e.g., "Impeach Earl Warren!" following the Brown decision (never mind that decision was unanimous).

That's nice.

However, non-SCOTUS justices - you know, the ones I was actually referring to: the ones you can get higher than, and who do not have tenure for life, and who are more vulnerable to impeachment - are the ones who are going to initially make (or not) the rulings that SCOTUS eventually hears (or not) and decides to uphold (or not). "The buck starts there", so to speak - if it starts at all (which is why it is little wonder that such judges found procedural grounds for not grabbing on to such a hot potato [1]).

The fact that the Court overruled Roe v. Wade suggests that it isn't gun-shy about making momentous rulings.

I didn't say "the [Supreme] Court" (i.e., SCOTUS judges) are gun-shy about making "momentous rulings" (although they are - and the higher the court, by the nature of higher courts, the greater the tendency to conservative circumspection). Again, I was quite clearly and explicitly referring to other non-SCOTUS judges being reluctant about making, not just "momentous rulings" in general, but a quite particular kind of especially "momentous ruling" (and one that would be "historical" in more ways than rulings such as Roe v. Wade are often said to be)- namely, rulings that involve "seriously questioning or challenging (let alone actually overturning) a U.S. presidential election".

One could also point to Bush v. Gore.

Could one point to where, in Bush v. Gore, any court (SCOTUS or other) "seriously question[ed] or challeng[ed] (let alone actually overturn[ed]]) [the announced result of] a U.S. presidential election"? Because if one can't, I'm not seeing the relevance of Bush v. Gore to anything I said, unless it is merely that Bush v. Gore also had something to do with a presidential election. (And IIRC, there were justices who did not want to hear the case - or to rule in favor of either party - precisely because they did not want the Court to be seen as deciding the outcome of the election one way or the other. [1])



[1] And i can't say I blame them, really. Bush v. Gore ... Texas v. Pennsylvania ... Trump v. whomever ... corrupt and/or incompetent candidates on one hand ... incompetent and/or corrupt election systems/officials on the other ... who needs this clown-show shit? I'd probably wash my hands of it, too, if I could.
 
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But given that even the bit your retained explicitly refers to the "aspirations to higher judicial position [a judge] might have", I was quite clearly not referring to SCOTUS judges - precisely because they have no such aspirations, as there is no higher judicial position to which they can advance. I'd have thought this was rather obvious, but apparently not ...

It wasn't when you referred to "any judge", especially when you also mentioned "keeping the position he already has". All Article III judges have lifetime tenure, and I'm not at all sure a lower court judge has a greater risk of impeachment solely because of a decision he or she might render. In fact, no Article III judge has ever been removed due solely to a ruling he made that Congress found objectionable. In fact, impeachment and removal of a judge because of a ruling that Congress doesn't like would be to ignore the separation of powers and eviscerate the notion of an independent judiciary.

However, non-SCOTUS justices - you know, the ones I was actually referring to: the ones you can get higher than, and who do not have tenure for life

Actually, they do.

"The buck starts there", so to speak - if it starts at all (which is why it is little wonder that such judges found procedural grounds for not grabbing on to such a hot potato.

But if there are procedural grounds (such as laches or a lack of standing) that are dispositive, courts should rule on that basis. Otherwise, it would be like going through with a trial on the merits even though the judge was convinced that a finding for the plaintiff would be reversed by an appellate court anyway. Procedural rules are there for a reason.

I'm not seeing the relevance of Bush v. Gore to anything I said

It was a momentous decision that may have decided the election.
 
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It wasn't when you referred to "any judge", [...]

Geezum crow! I did not refer merely to "any judge" - I specifically and explicitly referred to "any judge who [... might have ...] any aspirations to higher judicial position" - (i.e., clearly and obviously not SCOTUS judges, since there are no higher judicial positions to which they can aspire).

You elide and ignore the primary thrust of what I say, only to hyper-focus on the parenthetical asides - e.g., "[...] (not to mention the aspiration of merely keeping the position he already has)". Speaking of which:

[...] especially when you also mentioned "keeping the position he already has". All Article III judges have lifetime tenure, and I'm not at all sure a lower court judge has a greater risk of impeachment solely because of a decision he or she might render. In fact, no Article III judge has ever been removed due solely to a ruling he made that Congress found objectionable. In fact, impeachment and removal of a judge because of a ruling that Congress doesn't like would be to ignore the separation of powers and eviscerate the notion of an independent judiciary.

In today's increasingly strident, inflammatory, and hysterical political environment, I am not at all sure that lower court judges wouldn't have a greater risk of impeachment if they dared to "seriously questio[n] or challeng[e] (let alone actually overtur[n]) a U.S. presidential election". And as far as "the separation of powers and [...] the notion of an independent judiciary" goes, if any judge(s) ever did dare to venture into that territory, then why wouldn't Congress (depending on its partisan composition at the time, and on whom any such rulings favored) regard impeachment and removal as an instance of "turnabout is fair play"? Separation of powers and judicial "independence" cuts both ways, after all.

But however high or low the risk might be (or might be becoming), there's one surefire way to avoid it altogether: you can't be impeached (or even just thwarted in your ambitions for career advancement) for a ruling that wasn't made in a case that wasn't heard.

However, non-SCOTUS justices - you know, the ones I was actually referring to: the ones you can get higher than, and who do not have tenure for life

Actually, they do.

Yes. I misspoke. So see my previous remarks regarding "aspirations to higher judicial position" (or, if your prefer to continue to dwell upon the parenthetical, see the above regarding "impeachment and removal").

"The buck starts there", so to speak - if it starts at all (which is why it is little wonder that such judges found procedural grounds for not grabbing on to such a hot potato.

But if there are procedural grounds (such as laches or a lack of standing) that are dispositive, courts should rule on that basis. Otherwise, it would be like going through with a trial on the merits even though the judge was convinced that a finding for the plaintiff would be reversed by an appellate court anyway. Procedural rules are there for a reason.

"If there are" ... according to whom? If prosecutors can indict ham sandwiches as suits them, then it's not that much more of a stretch that judges can dismiss ham sandwiches as suits them. And if lower courts aren't inclined to take up cases that, if pursued, directly involve the possible reversal of the previously announced (and otherwise already established) outcome of a U.S. presidential election, then the more conservatively circumspect higher courts are certainly going to be even less inclined to do so.

I'm not seeing the relevance of Bush v. Gore to anything I said

It was a momentous decision that may have decided the election.

*sigh* To repeat things I have already said (but which you persist in ignoring and/or snipping out of your replies):

(1) Regarding "It was a momentous decision [...]" [bold and bold + underline emphasis added]:
I didn't say "the [Supreme] Court" (i.e., SCOTUS judges) are gun-shy about making "momentous rulings" (although they are - and the higher the court, by the nature of higher courts, the greater the tendency to conservative circumspection). Again, I was quite clearly and explicitly referring to other non-SCOTUS judges being reluctant about making, not just "momentous rulings" in general, but a quite particular kind of especially "momentous ruling" (and one that would be "historical" in more ways than rulings such as Roe v. Wade are often said to be) - namely, rulings that involve "seriously questioning or challenging (let alone actually overturning) a U.S. presidential election".
(2) Regarding "[...] that may have decided the election." [bold emphasis added ; elided context underlined]:
Could one point to where, in Bush v. Gore, any court (SCOTUS or other) "seriously question[ed] or challeng[ed] (let alone actually overturn[ed]]) [the announced result of] a U.S. presidential election"? Because if one can't, I'm not seeing the relevance of Bush v. Gore to anything I said, unless it is merely that Bush v. Gore also had something to do with a presidential election. (And IIRC, there were justices who did not want to hear the case - or to rule in favor of either party - precisely because they did not want the Court to be seen as deciding the outcome of the election one way or the other.)

Bush v. Gore did not involve challenging (and possibly overturning) the ostensibly already-determined-and-established result of a U.S. presidential election, and it was provocatively controversial enough. Any sensible judge is going to nip in the bud any case involving such a thing, regardless of the merits. As I said previously, before things were diverted over parsing codas and parentheticals:
Even the most Trump-friendly judges (whether appointed by him or not) are apt to be extremely gun-shy when it comes to pulling the trigger on something so fraught and momentous as seriously questioning or challenging (let alone actually overturning) a U.S. presidential election - quite regardless of how good the reasons for such questions or challenges might be [...]
Dismissals of such cases on procedural grounds are ultimately dispositive of nothing - except that sane judges don't want to touch them with a ten-foot gavel. (Of course, this doesn't preclude them from also wanting to nix such cases for other reasons, as well - including their own political preferences.)
 
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It's a wacky world we live in where the same people who say that they support small government, states rights, and the ability of people to choose their leaders are also the ones lining up to tongue the taint of a guy who wanted the federal government to overrule states' election processes and replace their electors with stooges hand-picked by his personal lawyer.

Does it ever occur to you that it isn't so much that I want to "tongue the taint" of Trump, as much as it is that I vehemently disbelieve damn-near-everything the MSM puts out these days?

So when I see an unprecedented coordination between the courts, the media, and various NPCs (such as yourself) making every possible attempt to dismiss any prospect of fraud in the 2020 election, all reciting the same script and playing cover for a system that is obviously— at this point— plagued by a double-standard in how justice is applied, apparent to even people who don't like Trump . . . yeah, it's bad enough, I'm gonna give Trump the benefit of the doubt. I stopped buying the MSM's bullshit before Trump came along. I won't be buying it after he's gone.

You, on the other hand . . .
 
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Yeah, I'm sure that when Trump rides in on his white horse, he will surely pardon both Assange and Snowden. A tyrant would never pardon them, right? Or maybe I'm just not that good of a chess player to see how sacrificing both at the altar of the state saves liberty. Silly me. Help me understand...please?
 
Yeah, I'm sure that when Trump rides in on his white horse, he will surely pardon both Assange and Snowden.

Clearly! I mean, he pardoned them both last time, right? So he has a track record, right?

Right?

Help me understand...please?

They won't. I've asked before. They clearly don't have much patience with people who lack faith in the Reverend Sun Trump Moon.
 
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