Do you want Jesse Benton involved in any capacity in Rand Paul 2016?

Do you want Jesse Benton involved in Rand Paul 2016?


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I won't take the time for a lengthy reply because you cannot even refute my short replies about how Virginia's winner take all status being a state that was within a 10 day range of 10 caucus states made it strategically undesirable or how getting Santorum out was a part of the campaign strategy that, if you were there, was obviously being carried out; that strategy being to coalesce the conservative vote. After Nevada ended we still wanted to coalesce the conservative vote as best we could because we wanted maximum representation at the RNC and at the state level parties, and we still had a better chance of drawing from Gingrich and Santorum then Romney. We still had several goals to accomplish with caucus states, and we did. Michigan was a part of the strategy to coalesce conservatives behind Ron Paul.

The fact that Kathy brings up a rant I posted angrily the day that we essentially dropped out, literally the single hardest day of the campaign, and some of you act as if that is at all a fair representation of my opinion on the man makes it perfectly clear to me that either your logical processes are flawed, or you do not understand basic human nature.

I'm sorry you cannot comprehend what you read, or take the time to actually read a serious reply. The fact that you are trying and failing to defend a dishonest campaign now (thanks kathy88 for really showing me what I'm dealing with, and I'm still not even sure), and you simply can't comprehend truth, doesn't mean the posts are half truths. You failed to address my points, in any fashion that makes sense to the supporters that donated money and time in January, February, March, April, and May when asked to do so.

FULL TRUTH - Ron Paul 2012 agreed to not attack Mitt Romney, before the Michigan primary. But spent money attacking Rick Santorum there, helping Mitt Romney win that state, and the nomination. It also continued to send emails "attacking" Mitt Romney in the emails to supporters, but never doing so publicly in an ad. Why? They were dragging supporters along, trying to tell them what they needed to hear, so they would part with more money.

I didn't say attack Mitt Romney at every step, or in every single state. I said where it mattered. Michigan mattered for causing a brokered convention. Maine mattered. New Hampshire mattered. Virginia mattered. Virginia mattered specifically for the supposed delegate fight, because a candidate could win delegates, without winning the state outright. They didn't try.

It's why I sent Ron Paul 2012 a draft campaign ad attacking Rick Santorum in IOWA. And they didn't use it. 2 weeks later, I sent it to Rick Perry's campaign (my enemey's enemy is my friend), and they had it up within 24 hours.

So, if the campaign was lost after Iowa, it should have closed shop. Not wasted months of time, and certainly not wasted months of supporters' money. If it was about some other two man strategy they tried to float like Doug Wead did, that falls to pieces with Virginia. And even in Maine, where it was a two main race in the polls. Mitt Romney and Ron Paul.

Ron Paul 2012 agreed to not attack Mitt Romney, and from their own actions we saw and know, helped him win the nomination without any waves at the RNC.

I'm sorry that you can't comprehend my full posts with truth containing facts/history/actions/non-actions of the campaign, but it seems like it's just you, Liberty Eagle, and Matt Collins that can't. So, I take that as a compliment. :) I wouldn't expect people repeatedly defending a lying, corrupt, deceptive campaign, to understand the truth. One has already shown today that the truth is toxic to them. When you respond to truth, with lies. It says a lot.

It may take a few times of seeing it, to wake some up. Like when speaking with neocons, I may need to change my tactic and wording for you to better understand what was the waste/fraud/lie of Ron Paul 2012.

And your Nevada point, MIGHT make sense. If they had attacked Romney after Nevada. They didn't.

Again, Nevada was on February 4th.
Michigan on February 28th.
Virginia on March 6th.

So, if after Nevada it was over, the campaign thought it was smart to attack Rick Santorum in Michigan where RP had no chance of winning, wasting at least $100K doing so, but not spend one time in Virginia to try and pick up delegates?

Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich were in race until April. And according to Jesse Benton in May 2012, their supposed brokered convention strategy, fell apart when Rick Santorum dropped out. Imagine that. Rick Santorum dropped out. Who Ron Paul 2012 was helping Mitt Romney beat in states like Michigan. It's why their brokered convention strategy doesn't hold any water either.
 
Deb, you were widely considered to be the sane one and THIS is still your belief...And you wonder why the campaign decided they had to separate? You believe the truther movement put Ron Paul on the map. That message is a recipe for Ron Paul's legacy to be tarnished. Fanatics in the truther movement is a repetition of terms to most Americans, the VAST majority of voters find 9/11 truth repulsive, and our movement can have nothing to do with them. THANK GOD Jesse Benton did what he did.

So nice that you (and who else specifically?) thought Deb was the sane one. Who the f*ck are you exactly? What was your role in RonPaul2012, Inc?
 
I volunteered, donated and did some pretty intense organizing locally.

So nice that you (and who else specifically?) thought Deb was the sane one. Who the f*ck are you exactly? What was your role in RonPaul2012, Inc?
 
I volunteered, donated and did some pretty intense organizing locally.

Who didn't?

You specifically said

Deb, you were widely considered to be the sane one and THIS is still your belief...

You did not say.... "I widely considered you.." So you are saying that there is a consortium somewhere that considers Deb sane but......?
 
Deb has widespread respect on the forum, that is what I base that comment on. That being said, other organizers involved did not have respect from many in the movement.
 
Deb has widespread respect on the forum, that is what I base that comment on. That being said, other organizers involved did not have respect from many in the movement.

She still does. More so than you. Are you saying that the rest of us agree with your statement? I can assure that you are wrong. I have and still consider her one of the most sane members. You I question. I would take Deb for 100 of you any day.
 
I won't take the time for a lengthy reply because you cannot even refute my short replies about how Virginia's winner take all status being a state that was within a 10 day range of 10 caucus states made it strategically undesirable or how getting Santorum out was a part of the campaign strategy that, if you were there, was obviously being carried out; that strategy being to coalesce the conservative vote. After Nevada ended we still wanted to coalesce the conservative vote as best we could because we wanted maximum representation at the RNC and at the state level parties, and we still had a better chance of drawing from Gingrich and Santorum then Romney. We still had several goals to accomplish with caucus states, and we did. Michigan was a part of the strategy to coalesce conservatives behind Ron Paul.

The fact that Kathy brings up a rant I posted angrily the day that we essentially dropped out, literally the single hardest day of the campaign, and some of you act as if that is at all a fair representation of my opinion on the man makes it perfectly clear to me that either your logical processes are flawed, or you do not understand basic human nature.

Since you are apparently COMPLETELY ignorant on Virginia. Virginia was not a winner take all state. There, refuted your idiot claim very quickly. (Full version below, with image.)

No, you fail to show how your stupid idea of the campaign getting everybody out but Romney holds water.
Why would Rick Santorum drop out, when he had/was beating Ron Paul in states with the popular vote?
Why would Rick Santorum drop out, when he received more votes than Ron Paul? And was in the race for a shorter amount of time than Ron Paul?

Your stupid idea holds no water, other than misleading supporters to waste more money on the campaign.
Michigan was a PRIMARY, not a Caucus. They attacked Rick Santorum in Michigan. Spent at least $100K on attack ads against him in the state.
A state Ron Paul had no chance of winning.

Ron Paul claimed Super Tuesday was the most important day of his campaign "yet". Including Michigan which had already taken place, where they wasted funds attacking Rick Santorum. Now, mind you, he made that claim in a fundraising email of course. So, take it as you will...

But, there goes your stupid "concentrate on the caucus state" idea. Maine. A caucus state. Where RP was polling at/near the top, only next to Romney. Not one single Romney ad. And when it came time for the first one-vs-one state, Ron Paul 2012 didn't spend one dime running ads to attack Mitt Romney in it.

Virginia awarded delegates not based on the total popular vote outcome, and not like some caucuses to waste supporters' time; even if you didn't win the state outright you could get delegates. It's how RP got 3 delegates in it, because of one supporter going all out for him.

Since you can't seem to comprehend how your stupid "two man" idea holds no water with just typed words, I created an image for you with some facts about the states (WARNING THOUGH, it has words too, so you might have trouble comprehending it also):
VCR4hQC.jpg


"you cannot even refute my short replies about how Virginia's winner take all status"
Again, I can't refute a reply that is ignorant and stupid of the actual facts? Like Virginia not being an actual "winner take all" state...

If you can't or didn't read the rest, I refuted your stupidity on the "winner take all" status of Virginia. Virginia wasn't winner take all.
 
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Well, it looks like Romney's campaign was helping write Ron Paul 2012's campaign ads, so I can only imagine they thought that would be the next step.

I hope you didn't take that from my earlier posts in this thread. I've never seen any evidence that Romney had anything to do with the content of Ron's ads, other than the possibility that Ron's ad guy was the reason for the lack of Romney ads.
 
I hope you didn't take that from my earlier posts in this thread. I've never seen any evidence that Romney had anything to do with the content of Ron's ads, other than the possibility that Ron's ad guy was the reason for the lack of Romney ads.

Just watch the ads, and then watch the ones where it has all three candidates in them. Romney is usually described in one sentence, with nothing hard hitting, and with a word (or, term) they probably thought would actually help him in the General Election, "Moderate". That's right, Ron Paul 2012 called him a MODERATE!
I bet Romney's campaign was terrified, insulted, and about to drop the A-bomb on Ron Paul 2012 because of that...until you realize that they had already agreed to not attack Mitt Romney when that ad was released.

And being labeled a "moderate" in an ad was probably viewed as a positive to Romney's campaign, because he could attempt to pick up more Democrat leaning voters that way.
 
Just watch the ads, and then watch the ones where it has all three candidates in them. Romney is usually described in one sentence, with nothing hard hitting, and with a word (or, term) they probably thought would actually help him in the General Election, "Moderate". That's right, Ron Paul 2012 called him a MODERATE!

It's just speculation though.

I bet Romney's campaign was terrified, insulted, and about to drop the A-bomb on Ron Paul 2012 because of that...until you realize that they had already agreed to not attack Mitt Romney when that ad was released.

And being labeled a "moderate" in an ad was probably viewed as a positive to Romney's campaign, because he could attempt to pick up more Democrat leaning voters that way.

I also recall some chatter that Romney promised not to "bury" Ron Paul 2012 if the ads didn't attack Romney. There definitely was some backroom dealings going on (no confirmation of what exactly though) but this thread is about Benton, not random bashing of the campaign.
 
..

Virginia awarded delegates not based on the total popular vote outcome, and not like some caucuses to waste supporters' time; even if you didn't win the state outright you could get delegates. It's how RP got 3 delegates in it, because of one supporter going all out for him.


"you cannot even refute my short replies about how Virginia's winner take all status"
Again, I can't refute a reply that is ignorant and stupid of the actual facts? Like Virginia not being an actual "winner take all" state...

If you can't or didn't read the rest, I refuted your stupidity on the "winner take all" status of Virginia. Virginia wasn't winner take all.

..

Virginia was effectively a winner-take all; because there were only 2 on the ballot, one was going to go over 50%.
 
Virginia was effectively a winner-take all; because there were only 2 on the ballot, one was going to go over 50%.

Not all the delegates were awarded by the total popular vote in the entire state, but by region.
Meaning, they could have tried to win just a specific portion of the state, instead of not trying at all. It's how RP picked up 3 delegates, even though he only got 40% of the votes overall. Because of one RP supporter that went all out for the man in his area and he picked up more than 50% in that area.

Even though Mitt Romney got 60% overall, Ron Paul still was able to pick up delegates. And had Ron Paul 2012 actually been trying to win, instead of help Mitt Romney by that point, should have tried to pick up more...especially if it was really about some delegate strategy as well.
 
One other way to get some perspective on this, is to look back on discussions of this matter during past election cycles. As with this February 2009 thread on whether Ron Paul should run again in 2012---below is my comment, verbatim, from post #40:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...-run-in-2012&p=1975250&viewfull=1#post1975250

"If Paul announces he's running, he needs to make clear he will be running to win, and back it up with bringing in serious campaign people (as viewed by the grassroots) to make it happen. If it's Moore and Benton front and center again, forget it, we've already lost..."
 
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I would bet every dime I have that Jesse will be at the top or near the top of Rand's likely campaign for President. He is family, he is trusted, and he is experienced.


People around here need to learn not to fret about things they cannot change.
 
Explain this. Distancing who? You won't explain it. You just spew bullshit and hope some of it sticks.

I am not going to name names, but there are / were certain people at PF that the campaign could not / should not be associated with. In politics, you have to actively distance yourself sometimes from these people.
 
I am not going to name names, but there are / were certain people at PF that the campaign could not / should not be associated with. In politics, you have to actively distance yourself sometimes from these people.

''THESE PEOPLE''...what people?....blacks?...gays?...hispanics?...or people like me and Debbie, or AF, or 81% of the people on this forum?.......?

seems to me we need to distance ourselves from people LIKE YOU, in order to break the cycle of the status quo you support.
 
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I'm getting really tired of people marginalizing the truthers. The fact of the matter is that truther movement put Dr. Paul on the map. If it weren't for Aaron Russo and Alex Jones and their followings Ron wouldn't have been a blip on the radar.
Uh no. The conspiracy movement helped to keep Ron marginalized.
 
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