Disclosing Tariff Impacts: A Hostile and Political Act

[acptulsa]

"The side that wants to win will always beat the side that wants to be left alone."

Government never made America great. Tariffs never made America great. American businesses saying, damn your tariffs, we make stuff so good your citizens will buy anyway, made America great. But if we can't produce our genius because it's not safe, clean and green enough to suit Congress and the bureaus, that's a big handicap. We can't grow in the biggest of all markets then invade the world with the same products. We have to buy crap, they don't.

This isn't war. Producers win economic wars, not governments. Football teams that want to win make sure they have good offensive lines, because they need their quarterback to be left alone. The side that wants to win won't get grubby government fingers deeper in their business, they'll drive it out. There's a proven strategy.

People have always made America great. America's biggest obstacle has always been its own government. Stop advocating for someone shooting our productive class in the foot. It's stupid.

Either that, or use the military to force other countries to adopt our silly regulations and enforce them. That'll eat up all the profits and more.

 

[Invisible Man]

We have to advocate for our trade by going to these other countries and getting them to lower their trade barriers and buy more of our goods.

No, we don't have to do that. If China's government does harmful things to its own people, like setting up trade barriers that make it harder for them to import American made goods, I don't have to step in as some kind of global cop and intervene on behalf of the Chinese people who are being harmed by their government. And if doing that means we pay higher tariffs on imports, then it makes us worse off.

 

[nikcers]

No, we don't have to do that. If China's government does harmful things to its own people, like setting up trade barriers that make it harder for them to import American made goods, I don't have to step in as some kind of global cop and intervene on behalf of the Chinese people who are being harmed by their government. And if doing that means we pay higher tariffs on imports, then it makes us worse off.

China isn't just not trading with us. They have asymmetrically decoupled their trade with us so that we buy stuff from them but they don't buy anything from us.

You know the old saying when goods can't cross borders soldiers will- well our goods don't cross their borders.

This isn't a subsidy that benefits our economy it's a declaration of war. War is not a subsidy.

If we can't make a trade deal happen then we won't prevent a war and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

[acptulsa]

China isn't just not trading with us. They have asymmetrically decoupled their trade with us so that we buy stuff from them but they don't buy anything from us.

Machines are idiots.

 

[nikcers]

Machines are idiots.

It's not idiotic to try to prevent a bloody war. It's smart.

It's not like there was a massive World War after the tarrifs in the 20th century that you know- stopped people from trading with other countries.

It's a simple concept if my economy trades with your economy and both countries benefit tremendously then they have a disincentive to go to war with eachother since they would lose that trade that they need.

It dramatically increases the cost of going to war and the way you prevent war is by making the cost of going to war so big that no one wants to pay it.

 

[acptulsa]

Trade deficits literally cause the debt driven monetization system we have now.

No. We didn't have trade deficits when the Fed was founded, but it was created to do that anyway.

You people are funny. I almost wish Trump would shoot up Fifth Ave. so I can watch you tools smyth excuses for him. Trump is this bitch, and you're the bitch's bitch.

You know, if he shot 9iu11ani on the street I might even become a delusional fanboi making excuses for him myself.

 

[spudea]

No, we don't have to do that. If China's government does harmful things to its own people, like setting up trade barriers that make it harder for them to import American made goods, I don't have to step in as some kind of global cop and intervene on behalf of the Chinese people who are being harmed by their government. And if doing that means we pay higher tariffs on imports, then it makes us worse off.

You've been shown time and time again how it makes us worse off but you don't care. Factories and all our manufacturing industry shutting down, you cheer GOOD! Incredibly out of touch.

 

[acptulsa]

You've been shown time and time again how it makes us worse off but you don't care.

You've been shown time and again that the problem can be cured properly, but Trump wants to put a band-aid on it so tight it cuts off our circulation, so you don't care about better ideas.

 

[Invisible Man]

They have asymmetrically decoupled their trade with us so that we buy stuff from them but they don't buy anything from us.

I fail to see how that's a problem.

 

[nikcers]

I fail to see how that's a problem.

That's a problem unless you want China to go to war I guess.

I'm guessing that you want China to invade Taiwan like they did Hong Kong and crash the US economy because we are dependent on microchips from Taiwan?

Maybe you think that it's a good thing if the US economy gets destroyed?

I like to think preventing China from crashing our economy is a good thing.

 

[acptulsa]

I'm guessing that you want China to invade Taiwan like they did Hong Kong and crash the US economy because we are dependent on microchips from Taiwan?

This thing seems to think California ran out of sand.

 

[nikcers]

This thing seems to think California ran out of sand.

It will take a decade to reshore microchips. NVIDIA and TSMC and Intel are already investing into making them here.

There's still no way for the USA to completely replace all of the semiconductor manufacturing Taiwan does.

They make the world's supply.

Even if we make enough for our own needs that makes all of the other big economies fully dependent on China if China takes Taiwan.

Trump is hitting China before they invade Taiwan to prevent it otherwise it might be World War 3. Since Taiwan makes the world's supply that would be a war against the world.

 

[Invisible Man]

That's a problem unless you want China to go to war I guess.

I'm guessing that you want China to invade Taiwan like they did Hong Kong and crash the US economy because we are dependent on microchips from Taiwan?

Maybe you think that it's a good thing if the US economy gets destroyed?

I like to think preventing China from crashing our economy is a good thing.

Getting stuff cheaply doesn't destroy an economy.

Saying that we are "dependent" on those cheap goods is just another way of saying that we benefit from them economically, and ceasing to get them would remove those benefits. Of course we could still get by without those benefits, but we stand to gain nothing by having our own government intervene and try to push us to forego them via tariffs.

All of you who are supporting tariffs are supporting something that makes us worse off, under all circumstances, irrespective of what any other foreign governments do.

 

[acptulsa]

Of course we could still get by without those...

Suppose a chip shortage would bring back washing machines with simple, reliable timers in lieu of chips? Or would Congress refuse to repeal those stupid "environmental" regulations even in that circumstance?

 

[nikcers]

Getting stuff cheaply doesn't destroy an economy.

Saying that we are "dependent" on those cheap goods is just another way of saying that we benefit from them economically, and ceasing to get them would remove those benefits. Of course we could still get by without those benefits, but we stand to gain nothing by having our own government intervene and try to push us to forego them via tariffs.

All of you who are supporting tariffs are supporting something that makes us worse off, under all circumstances, irrespective of what any other foreign governments do.

Of course we gain more independence when we put tarrifs on. It makes it more attractive to produce things here or other places.

It also puts pressure on China to reverse course or make a trade deal that doesn't give them full leverage to invade Taiwan. It also reduces the amount of money China has to invade Taiwan with.

Foreign policy is the president's job. They aren't supposed to sit back and let China take over the world and make us a vassal state by 2049.

That's not the private industries job. Their job is to make profit. They have no incentive to defend our country from foreign countries.

 

[nikcers]

Suppose a chip shortage would bring back washing machines with simple, reliable timers in lieu of chips? Or would Congress refuse to repeal those stupid "environmental" regulations even in that circumstance?

Yeah and everyone is just going to go back to using land line phones that they stopped repairing and replacing a decade ago in many areas.

Or we have to use old chips in our phones that are vulnerable to get hacked by China and Russia. So they can just shut off our information technology any time they want.

I guess we would just go back to using cash at that point too because our electronics are too vulnerable.

All of that would be free too right it wouldn't cost our economy trillions of dollars.

 

[tebowlives]

Yeah and everyone is just going to go back to using land line phones that they stopped repairing and replacing a decade ago in many areas.

Or we have to use old chips in our phones that are vulnerable to get hacked by China and Russia. So they can just shut off our information technology any time they want.

I guess we would just go back to using cash at that point too because our electronics are too vulnerable.

All of that would be free too right it wouldn't cost our economy trillions of dollars.

Yes our electronics are vulnerable
Let me introduce you to the scariest man in America. Thank God he's on the side of good. Ryan Montgomery

 

[acptulsa]

Funny it thinks the Chinese would ever sell us a chip without a back door. Oh God we don't make anything any more! But we have to be nice to China because we can't do things the old fashioned way! Fearmonger fearmonger! Be afraid!!

We're about to go all the way back to junk silver. By choice. And we can make do with that just fine.

 

[Invisible Man]

Of course we gain more independence when we put tarrifs on.

No we don't. We do the opposite. More independence = more freedom, not more central management and taxation.

 

[nikcers]

Funny it thinks the Chinese would ever sell us a chip without a back door. Oh God we don't make anything any more! But we have to be nice to China because we can't do things the old fashioned way! Fearmonger fearmonger! Be afraid!!

We're about to go all the way back to junk silver. By choice. And we can make do with that just fine.

Congress certainly sees it as a threat after China invaded Hong Kong.

That's why we have the CHIPS act.

Whoever gains and maintains AI supremacy will control the world.

Artificial god-like super intelligence is a big deal.

Musk has already integrated Artificial intelligence into people who have a neural link.

You better believe China is doing it.

There's no going back to analog and silver.

You will be assimilated, resistance is futile.