I guess from this result we can predict the national party winners will be Hilary and McCain.
We can all go home now.
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Diebold From The Democratic Side
- Thread starter Sir Rhino
- Start date
I guess from this result we can predict the national party winners will be Hilary and McCain.
We can all go home now.
Hokay, checking that out.
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You know what surprises me? About a year or so ago, I heard that McCain had sold his soul to BushCo ... that in exchange for regularly french kissing GWB's butt he got George's Campaign Machine. Since then I've assumed that any Rovian tricks would be played for his benefit.
Lately I've heard that the neo-cons are really POed at McCain for 'turning against The President' on the torture issue, so maybe that deal is no longer in effect.
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Molly, you obviously have something in mind, so I'll go next to Guiliani vs Romney.
BTW, at some point would you like me to email you the Excel workbook I'm building? I figure that would be more useful to you than a bunch of images.
Here's a little factoid. Who ran the GOTV effort for
Al Gore in 2000 - Michael Whouley
John Kerry in 2004 - Michael Whouley
Hillary Clinton in 2008 - Michael Whouley
http://gopgrunt.blogspot.com/2008/01/hrc-wins-in-nh-whouley-strikes-again.html
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You'll have to explain the meaning of that to me.
I neither know GOTV or Michael Whouley.
Does that have any bearing on the election outcome?
Or just an interesting coincidence?
I guess from this result we can predict the national party winners will be Hilary and McCain.
We can all go home now.
Where you get McCain? Romney did better with the "machine vote" than McCain did, yet McCain won.
well if I put on my tinfoil hat, McCain only won because they let him win, and they bumped up Romney to make him look more respectable. It might be a McCain/Romney ticket.
You realize, of course, that never in the history of politics has there been a comeback like McCain's, proving you can make a souffle rise twice?
The week before the Primary, all the scheduled meetings on the RNC website were McCain meeting with various Republican groups around the state.
I think he is the first choice due to his willingness to fight wars for 100 years and his ability to lose to Hilary.
Taking off hat now.
PatriotOne
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Just an FYI. I don't know if the data is the same as boston.com's, but the official "unofficial" (not yet verified) results are posted on NH's Secretary of State's website.
http://www.sos.nh.gov/presprim2008/index.htm
http://www.sos.nh.gov/presprim2008/index.htm
I gotta sleep on this ...
Tell me again, exactly what is that X axis?
PatriotOne
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Sir Rhino..............
Where are you getting your info on which precincts used Diebold and which used handcounts? I have my own spreadsheet I want to mark up.
Where are you getting your info on which precincts used Diebold and which used handcounts? I have my own spreadsheet I want to mark up.
Well, either Michael Whouley or Diebold is the interesting coincidence.
GOTV stands for Get Out The Vote. Technically, Whouley was the "New Hampshire Field Coordinator"
Put extremely simplistically, Whouley is the guy who actually makes people vote for the candidate. The TV commercials, debate appearances, etc. make people like a candidate. Whouley is the guy who turns that into actual votes.
Whouley found more votes for Hillary than there are people in New Hampshire who like her.
By the way, everyone (you are just one of many) who is spreading this Diebold nonsense is not helping. We Ron Paul supporters should be getting smarter about politics.
Everyone should try to understand that people who live in nice houses and have upper middle class lives on the Massachusetts border and who commute to
Massachusetts to work have different candidate preferences than people who live in the North Woods or the Green Mountains.
well the diebold stuff gives us an interesting picture of what actually happened with the vote. And, it's just on this thread.
I don't disagree with you about our naivete. This movement is made up of people who love our country, not savvy polls trying to make a home run and a bundle of money and who have been doing it for years.
But, we are a quick study--hopefully quick enough. I complained endlessly about what was being done by the campaign in NH, mainly nothing, and about centralizing it, but no one would hear of it.
The thing is, we need to expose what is going on. If they are really busing in thousands of out of staters to vote, we need to uncover that and make it known to the American people. It should be easy enough to do once we can figure out where to look for those affidavits. I can guarantee that if they are doing this, not even NH residents know about it.
And, don't sell the border cities short. I don't think that was the problem. There was tons of enthusiasm for Ron Paul along the border--among those who knew his message.
The problem is no one knows his message. The message sells itself. And, holding up Ron Paul signs, although that is great, does not convey the message.
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well if I put on my tinfoil hat, McCain only won because they let him win, and they bumped up Romney to make him look more respectable. It might be a McCain/Romney ticket.
You realize, of course, that never in the history of politics has there been a comeback like McCain's, proving you can make a souffle rise twice?
The week before the Primary, all the scheduled meetings on the RNC website were McCain meeting with various Republican groups around the state.
I think he is the first choice due to his willingness to fight wars for 100 years and his ability to lose to Hilary.
Taking off hat now.
You might want to consider that McCain won because more people voted for him in New Hampshire? You do know that he won in New Hampshire in 2000?
Maybe McCain is popular in New Hampshire for some reason? The fact that he, over the course of the last 8 years has publically criticized Bush makes him seem "independent" of the Republicans.
The reason why your head is exploding, trying to figure all this out, is because your assumption "it's all rigged, through Diebold or other magical unexplained forces" is just wrong.
And McCain would cream Hillary. She's repulsive. Obama is the much stronger of the Democratic candidates. Republicans who, right now, dislike Ron Paul would definitely vote for Ron Paul, because they absolutely detest Hillary. Independents and even anti war democrats like Ron Paul. Ron Paul would crush Hillary. Ron Paul vs Obama, not as easy a pick. Huckabee (and maybe Giuliani) would have problems with Hillary, because of their various scandals.
I saw that Ron Paul was under 5% in some border areas. But I was really just saying that Romney was super strong there.
I was in NH, and, yeah, the people up there, the volunteers, do have the brain power.
I saw on one thread where Obama's poll watchers and Ron Paul's poll watchers were thrown out of some polling places. Were these polling places especially strong for Hillary?
IChooseLiberty
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No idea if they were stronger vote-wise but it was also Hillary's people that started that incident and spread it by cellphone to other precincts.
Well ok, how about we take a crash course in Michael Whouley? He sounds like a super organizer with almost dictatorial control over the organization and the client. Can we hire this guy? rofl
But there might be another, more hidden story -- a secret weapon Kerry unleashed in Iowa several weeks ago. His name is Michael Whouley.
Michael who? Unless you're a hard-core political junkie, you've probably never even heard the name. But within the Democratic political world, Whouley is an almost-mythical figure. Revered as one of the party's fiercest and most talented ground-level organizers, Whouley is widely credited with saving Al Gore's foundering campaign in Iowa and New Hampshire in the 2000 primaries against Bill Bradley. Now this old Kerry ally may be working his magic one more time.
Whouley often seems like a kind of Keyser Soze figure -- his fearsome powers are the stuff of legend, but the man himself is rarely seen. Unlike other top campaign operatives, Whouley shuns attention. He avoids shows like "Hardball" and "Crossfire," and you can't find a picture of him on the Web. Whouley is so secretive that in 2000 he wouldn't even walk in front of a C-SPAN camera so his mother-in-law could see him on television. On the phone, Whouley sounds like a 300-pound truck driver -- he has a grumbly, profane voice, heavily inflected with the accent he acquired growing up in Boston's working-class Dorchester neighborhood. (In fact, he is short, "balding," and "whip thin," according to The New York Times.)
Whouley also hates to be written about. Gore's former campaign manager, Donna Brazile, confided to me yesterday that she'd just gotten off the phone with Whouley. He'd told her "to stop bragging about him" to reporters.
But Whouley's track record makes him hard to ignore. Numerous veterans of the 2000 Gore campaign, including Gore himself, give Whouley vast credit for saving Gore's hide from Bill Bradley's primary challenge that year. At the time, Whouley was a fortyish ground operative who had been field director for Bill Clinton's 1992 campaign and, briefly, patronage chief in the White House. He was first dispatched to New Hampshire after a poll showing Bradley with a lead in New Hampshire rocked the complacent Gore campaign. Whouley quickly identified the problem: Gore had been too regal and distant from the voters. He ended Gore's endless endorsement events and forced him to bang on more doors and make himself accessible through long town-hall meetings with undecided voters. They proved highly popular and crucially humanized the stiff vice president.
Having shored up Gore in New Hampshire, Whouley proceeded to Iowa, where Bradley was also gaining ground. Whouley called in several trusted old allies from around the country, many from Boston, and overhauled Gore's state operation. Once again, Whouley got results -- even if it meant bruising feelings. Press accounts describe an "icy fury" and killer stares shot at campaign workers who fail him. Brazile says she blanched when Whouley insisted that the man who'd been promised the prestigious job of managing California for Gore be sent to Western Iowa instead. But it was done. More efficient mail and phone operations helped Gore find his footing, and he blew out Bradley by 28 points.
Finally Whouley returned to New Hampshire for the homestretch in that state. He micromanaged Gore's voter turnout machine to the last possible hour -- even sending a last-minute throng of volunteers to pound on doors based on 4 p.m. primary exit poll data. In a rare moment of self-promotion following the primary, Whouley even bragged that he'd dispatched a convoy to create a traffic jam on I-93, designed to prevent upscale suburban Bradley voters from getting to the polls. (He later insisted this was a joke.) "He is so incredibly focused," Gore would later conclude to The Washington Post, that when Whouley sets a goal, "book it."
Lucky for Kerry, he had a longtime relationship with Whouley, dating back to Kerry's 1982 campaign for lieutenant governor. Kerry developed so much respect for Whouley that he actually cited him as a reason for not challenging Gore for the nomination in 2000. "I would not have enjoyed running against Whouley," Kerry told The Washington Post. "I definitely want him in my foxhole."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/16/opinion/main593698.shtml
But there might be another, more hidden story -- a secret weapon Kerry unleashed in Iowa several weeks ago. His name is Michael Whouley.
Michael who? Unless you're a hard-core political junkie, you've probably never even heard the name. But within the Democratic political world, Whouley is an almost-mythical figure. Revered as one of the party's fiercest and most talented ground-level organizers, Whouley is widely credited with saving Al Gore's foundering campaign in Iowa and New Hampshire in the 2000 primaries against Bill Bradley. Now this old Kerry ally may be working his magic one more time.
Whouley often seems like a kind of Keyser Soze figure -- his fearsome powers are the stuff of legend, but the man himself is rarely seen. Unlike other top campaign operatives, Whouley shuns attention. He avoids shows like "Hardball" and "Crossfire," and you can't find a picture of him on the Web. Whouley is so secretive that in 2000 he wouldn't even walk in front of a C-SPAN camera so his mother-in-law could see him on television. On the phone, Whouley sounds like a 300-pound truck driver -- he has a grumbly, profane voice, heavily inflected with the accent he acquired growing up in Boston's working-class Dorchester neighborhood. (In fact, he is short, "balding," and "whip thin," according to The New York Times.)
Whouley also hates to be written about. Gore's former campaign manager, Donna Brazile, confided to me yesterday that she'd just gotten off the phone with Whouley. He'd told her "to stop bragging about him" to reporters.
But Whouley's track record makes him hard to ignore. Numerous veterans of the 2000 Gore campaign, including Gore himself, give Whouley vast credit for saving Gore's hide from Bill Bradley's primary challenge that year. At the time, Whouley was a fortyish ground operative who had been field director for Bill Clinton's 1992 campaign and, briefly, patronage chief in the White House. He was first dispatched to New Hampshire after a poll showing Bradley with a lead in New Hampshire rocked the complacent Gore campaign. Whouley quickly identified the problem: Gore had been too regal and distant from the voters. He ended Gore's endless endorsement events and forced him to bang on more doors and make himself accessible through long town-hall meetings with undecided voters. They proved highly popular and crucially humanized the stiff vice president.
Having shored up Gore in New Hampshire, Whouley proceeded to Iowa, where Bradley was also gaining ground. Whouley called in several trusted old allies from around the country, many from Boston, and overhauled Gore's state operation. Once again, Whouley got results -- even if it meant bruising feelings. Press accounts describe an "icy fury" and killer stares shot at campaign workers who fail him. Brazile says she blanched when Whouley insisted that the man who'd been promised the prestigious job of managing California for Gore be sent to Western Iowa instead. But it was done. More efficient mail and phone operations helped Gore find his footing, and he blew out Bradley by 28 points.
Finally Whouley returned to New Hampshire for the homestretch in that state. He micromanaged Gore's voter turnout machine to the last possible hour -- even sending a last-minute throng of volunteers to pound on doors based on 4 p.m. primary exit poll data. In a rare moment of self-promotion following the primary, Whouley even bragged that he'd dispatched a convoy to create a traffic jam on I-93, designed to prevent upscale suburban Bradley voters from getting to the polls. (He later insisted this was a joke.) "He is so incredibly focused," Gore would later conclude to The Washington Post, that when Whouley sets a goal, "book it."
Lucky for Kerry, he had a longtime relationship with Whouley, dating back to Kerry's 1982 campaign for lieutenant governor. Kerry developed so much respect for Whouley that he actually cited him as a reason for not challenging Gore for the nomination in 2000. "I would not have enjoyed running against Whouley," Kerry told The Washington Post. "I definitely want him in my foxhole."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/16/opinion/main593698.shtml
Maybe you aren't aware that MA is mostly indifferent to Romney? If not that, they actively dislike him. They would only vote for him if they didn't perceive anything better.
And, that would be if they didn't know Ron Paul's message.
Ron Paul would crush Hilary, I agree. So why isn't the Republican party actively helping Ron Paul's campaign instead of sabotaging it at every turn? I would say because they don't want to win this time around. It's time to flip the parties. But, that's just my view of this whole situation.
I know lots of people who would vote for Hilary over Mccain. The man is a total nightmare. Mccain could not win a race against Hilary fairly, not after the last 8 years. People are sick of war and our country is taking it on the chin economically.
I know a dozen people in NH and none of them voted for Mccain. They voted for Obama, Richardson, and Ron Paul. The Republicans I know there voted for Obama. So who voted for Mccain? Got me.
Why would Huckabee beat Ron Paul in NH? Because the voters did not know Huckabee's message or Ron Paul's? Are voters that ill informed?
We need to educate as many voters as we can before these primaries to a very simple message that is about 5 lines long.
http://www.sos.nh.gov/presprim2008/rpresrock.htm
Look at the data for Rockingham County.
Romney - 21,838
Paul - 3,787
Oh, and I think I found the voter fraud.
"new voters" in "Manchester Ward 9"
see these threads
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=84333
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=88227
NH isn't quite the Live Free or Die state anymore. It's increasingly becoming a suburb of Boston. It is a part of the liberal northeast. Huckabee did quite poorly considering he won in Iowa 5 days earlier. Not much of a bump there. And, honestly, if you're an evangelical who wants more government, Huckabee is your guy.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=84333
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=88227
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