Did We Provoke Putin’s War in Ukraine?

[Pauls' Revere]

Can't wait to see Sean Penn handing out Stingers.

Dude will do anything to try and remain relevant.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Since when is it the US's role to decide what alliances Ukraine should and should not be a part of, or whether it is or is not a "sister state" of Russia?

We can always depend upon you to give us the neocon or Democrat talking point of the day.

The US and other western globalist entities have been manipulating and injecting their agenda into Ukraine for decades. What part of that is letting Ukraine decide on their own? There are a lot of options other than all NATO or all Russia. Those who try to make it a simple black or white issue are manipulators and propagandists.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

A disturbing thought passed through my brain today.

It would be a good time for China to seize the Eastern third (or more) of Russia? You know, for global stability of Russia's nuke stockpile.

If Putin is truly a madman emulating Hitler, he will invade China first.

 

[69360]

Of course the US provoked this like usual. Obama administration staged a coup against the elected government of Ukraine. Putin put up with it for 8 years warning all along.

This is Russia's cuban missle crisis. It's literally the same thing happened to them that they did to us in the 60's. Did the world expect Russia to just accept NATO on their border?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

...
This is Russia's cuban missle crisis. It's literally the same thing happened to them that they did to us in the 60's. Did the world expect Russia to just accept NATO on their border?

That analogy occurred to me too. And that means Zelensky is Castro.

 

[pcosmar]

That analogy occurred to me too. And that means Zelensky is Castro.

Have one of those to the North of us..

Damn Castro's everywhere.

 

[Mordan]

Not to mention the coup in the U.S. back in 2020.

That's on lawmakers.... Trump tried nearly everything. When your own camp votes laws that makes fraud easier as ever.

 

[wizardwatson]

McStain and company...

Video from Dec. 2016 in which John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and Amy Klobuchar tell a Ukrainian military unit that it's time to go on the "offense" against Russia. "It is time for them to pay a heavier price," declares Graham. This is what they wanted!

 

[TheCount]

The US and other western globalist entities have been manipulating and injecting their agenda into Ukraine for decades.

And so has Russia. This is what countries do.

What part of that is letting Ukraine decide on their own?

The alternative, proposed in the OP, is that global powers should decide for Ukraine.

That solution is Russia saying to NATO, "There are the countries who are allowed to join your alliance and these are the countries which are not allowed to join your alliance."

And NATO responds, "Okay, to avoid conflict between us, we'll divide up Europe between Russia and NATO, and draw a line as to what European countries are and are not allowed to do"


That is more globalist, not less.

We can always depend upon you to give us the neocon or Democrat talking point of the day.

Yes, the well known neocon or Democrat talking point of *checks notes* national sovereignty.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

And so has Russia. This is what countries do.




The alternative, proposed in the OP, is that global powers should decide for Ukraine.

That solution is Russia saying to NATO, "There are the countries who are allowed to join your alliance and these are the countries which are not allowed to join your alliance."

And NATO responds, "Okay, to avoid conflict between us, we'll divide up Europe between Russia and NATO, and draw a line as to what European countries are and are not allowed to do"


That is more globalist, not less.




Yes, the well known neocon or Democrat talking point of *checks notes* national sovereignty.

Saw the movie Extract recently.

Ukraine should be able to join NATO reminded me of this line of thinking. "Ukraine should be able to sleep with any manipulative, thieving slut that they want! They don't have to pay attention to their wife."

In other words, there are a lot of factors to take into account for Ukraine. And globalists attempts to appeal to "freedom of choice" is laughable and blatantly hypocritical.

Entangling alliances with no one would suit them best, but that is crazy talk.

 

[pcosmar]

Can't tell..
Is it a smokescreen to cover the World Wide Protests?
or
A Fake War to provoke a real War with Russia?

It is a Propaganda War.

 

[TheCount]

In other words, there are a lot of factors to take into account for Ukraine.

Yes, the factor that they should take into account is that their globalist neighbor wants to prevent them from doing so.

Entangling alliances with no one would suit them best, but that is crazy talk.

It's either entanglement A or entanglement B, one you choose or one that is chosen for you.

 

[dannno]

And so has Russia. This is what countries do.




The alternative, proposed in the OP, is that global powers should decide for Ukraine.

That solution is Russia saying to NATO, "There are the countries who are allowed to join your alliance and these are the countries which are not allowed to join your alliance."

And NATO responds, "Okay, to avoid conflict between us, we'll divide up Europe between Russia and NATO, and draw a line as to what European countries are and are not allowed to do"


That is more globalist, not less.




Yes, the well known neocon or Democrat talking point of *checks notes* national sovereignty.

Except one side slaughters the civilians in Ukraine and funds neo-nazis to do it - the side largely funded by a country halfway around the globe. The other side, funded by their neighbor, does not target civilians. They don't even want to kill the troops unless they are neo-nazis.

 

[pcosmar]

Yes, the factor that they should take into account is that their globalist neighbor wants to prevent them from doing so.




It's either entanglement A or entanglement B, one you choose or one that is chosen for you.

Is worse going to War on False information. Based on nothing but Propaganda.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

...
It's either entanglement A or entanglement B, one you choose or one that is chosen for you.

No one is buying your Soros, NATO propaganda.

 

[TheCount]

No one is buying your Soros, NATO propaganda.

What NATO propaganda? You haven't responded to a single thing I've said, you simply respond tangentially.

Should or should not Ukraine have the sovereignty to determine its own foreign policy?

 

[TheCount]

Is worse going to War on False information. Based on nothing but Propaganda.

I completely agree. Ukraine should definitely not invade Russia based on false information or propaganda.

 

[acptulsa]

What NATO propaganda? You haven't responded to a single thing I've said, you simply respond tangentially.

Should or should not Ukraine have the sovereignty to determine its own foreign policy?

Depends. One, is the Ukranian government legitimate and possessed of the consent of the governed, or was it installed in 2014 by outside powers? Two, can it back its policy up without help?

 

[TheCount]

Depends. One, is the Ukranian government legitimate and possessed of the consent of the governed, or was it installed in 2014 by outside powers? Two, can it back its policy up without help?

One: It's at the very least equally legitimate and possessed of the consent of the governed as territories occupied by the military of another state. And yet, as I suggested in the meme above, the two areas are being treated unequally. Also, Ukraine has had two elections since 2013.

Two: Can Donetsk? Can Luhansk? Syria? Iraq? Afghanistan?

 

[Ender]

What NATO propaganda? You haven't responded to a single thing I've said, you simply respond tangentially.

Should or should not Ukraine have the sovereignty to determine its own foreign policy?

Sure- but Russia should also have the sovereignty to not allow nuclear weapons on it's borders. Plus, NATO should have been dissolved when the cold war ended.