"Derek Chauvin used unauthorized neck restraint on George Floyd, training officer testifies"

[A. Havnes]

Man, take a step back. You're seriously taking the State line on this??!

The reason Chauvin "HAD" to keep him in that position is because a poor guy was laid off because of state covid policies, then he tried to swindle a pack of smokes. Then the Keystone Kop agents of the State escalated the situation into putting the guy face down in the street in front of a gathering crowd.

And yes, this cop was just doing his job, as evidenced by all the other cops supporting the arrest and methods. I don't think racism had anything to do with this - this is a problem with the enforcement edicts of the State. Agents of the State murdered a citizen. Period.

It's kinda sick to break it down to the last few minutes as a justification for why the cops "had" to do anything.

This video seems very similar to the Tony Timpa video. No one would watch that and assume that the officers didn't kill that man, but the misdemeanors they were charged with were dismissed.

 

[ClaytonB]

5-311 USE OF NECK RESTRAINTS AND CHOKE HOLDS (10/16/02) (08/17/07) (10/01/10) (04/16/12)
DEFINITIONS I.
Choke Hold: Deadly force option. Defined as applying direct pressure on a person’s trachea or airway (front of the neck), blocking or obstructing the airway (04/16/12)
Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck). Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. (04/16/12)
Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. (04/16/12)
Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12)
PROCEDURES/REGULATIONS II.
The Conscious Neck Restraint may be used against a subject who is actively resisting. (04/16/12)
The Unconscious Neck Restraint shall only be applied in the following circumstances: (04/16/12)
On a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or;
For life saving purposes, or;
On a subject who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective.
Neck restraints shall not be used against subjects who are passively resisting as defined by policy. (04/16/12)
After Care Guidelines (04/16/12)
After a neck restraint or choke hold has been used on a subject, sworn MPD employees shall keep them under close observation until they are released to medical or other law enforcement personnel.
An officer who has used a neck restraint or choke hold shall inform individuals accepting custody of the subject, that the technique was used on the subject.


And now they are deliberately clearing all trace of Section 5-311 on neck restraints to enable mob justice and save their asses.

Technical note: Section 5-311 is not talking about the neck pin used on Floyd, it is talking about choke restraints (applied to the front of the neck) using the hands, arms or legs. Such chokes can render a person unconscious without killing them (and they can also cause death) by disrupting the blood supply to the brain as well as constricting air-flow (thus reducing oxygenation of the blood). The neck pin puts pressure on the spine at the base of the skull and can cause serious injury or death by pinching, rupturing or even severing the spinal cord.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

What a fucking liar. I apologize in advance if this post turns out to be too long, but I just have to share this. Some people, masquerading as saviors under the moniker Anonymous, took down the Minneapolis city government website and the police department website immediately after the incident. I don't know if this is still there. Probably not, considering they are NOW saying that they did not authorize that type of restraint.
...

Interesting. Like I said before, I don't doubt that any and all use of force is trained and “authorized”. Polices and procedures are always followed.

CYA is part of the design.

But... those guidelines also provide some ammo for the prosecution. Namely:

...
5-303.01 DUTY TO INTERVENE (07/28/16)
(A-D)
A. Sworn employees have an obligation to protect the public and other employees.

B. It shall be the duty of every sworn employee present at any scene where physical force is being applied to either stop or attempt to stop another sworn employee when force is being inappropriately applied or is no longer required.
...
b. Consider whether a subject’s lack of compliance is a deliberate attempt to resist or an inability to comply based on factors including, but not limited to:

· Medical conditions
· Mental impairment
· Developmental disability
· Physical limitation
· Language barrier
· Influence of drug or alcohol use
· Behavioral crisis

...

That is where they violated policies and procedures.

Of course everything is up to individual discretion and judgement in the heat of the situation, which is another big CYA.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Technical note: Section 5-311 is not talking about the neck pin used on Floyd, it is talking about choke restraints (applied to the front of the neck) using the hands, arms or legs. Such chokes can render a person unconscious without killing them (and they can also cause death) by disrupting the blood supply to the brain as well as constricting air-flow (thus reducing oxygenation of the blood). The neck pin puts pressure on the spine at the base of the skull and can cause serious injury or death by pinching, rupturing or even severing the spinal cord.

I believe this is the relevant part that applies to this case:

Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck).

 

[dannno]

Man, take a step back. You're seriously taking the State line on this??!

The reason Chauvin "HAD" to keep him in that position is because a poor guy was laid off because of state covid policies, then he tried to swindle a pack of smokes. Then the Keystone Kop agents of the State escalated the situation into putting the guy face down in the street in front of a gathering crowd.

And yes, this cop was just doing his job, as evidenced by all the other cops supporting the arrest and methods. I don't think racism had anything to do with this - this is a problem with the enforcement edicts of the State. Agents of the State murdered a citizen. Period.

It's kinda sick to break it down to the last few minutes as a justification for why the cops "had" to do anything.

I'm not defending the "state", they are the ones who made the drug laws that caused Floyd to eat all his drugs. Chauvin wasn't enforcing drug laws, he was enforcing counterfeit laws, which is essentially theft. It would be nice if they would enforce those against the federal reserve as well, but that's another story.

I presume you saw the video where he went up to his car initially, and Floyd started reaching for random shit in his car. Have you seen all the videos on youtube of officers being shot during traffic stops?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

That is more referring to the outcome of the case, it's difficult to prosecute somebody for following the training procedures.

But for a moral justification, how about the fact that Chauvin is 5'9" 140 lbs and George Floyd was 6'6" 240 lbs? He was being detained over passing a counterfeit bill. Unfortunately, because of the war on drugs, he had to eat his drugs and OD'd on fentanyl. I'm not saying it was all George Floyd's fault, if it wasn't for the drug issue he probably wouldn't have been as concerned about being detained and having his car searched, etc..

But I'm not sure what you want Chauvin to have done differently, apart from choosing a different career path.

Hindsight is 20/20, and it’s hard to evaluate a situation unless you are there in the heat of the moment, but if I was to Monday morning quarterback this, I would recommend sitting him up against the car after handcuffed, and asking him why he can't breath, and if he needed medical treatment. Were those cops carrying Narcan?

But I was not there, and not angry that he wouldn't get into the car.

 

[ClaytonB]

I believe this is the relevant part that applies to this case:

In context, it just doesn't make sense. A pin to the back of the neck on a prone person could not compress "one or both sides" of a person's neck unless they were being pinned down onto something else, like a thick rope under tension.

I realize the language "The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints" could be construed to mean that pinning someone by their neck when prone is not authorized but I think that's a misreading of the entire section, which isn't addressing pins at all.

I haven't dug into the details of the legal case, but I'm willing to bet that a massive percentage of the police in this country have routinely used the neck-pin that was used on Floyd, and that in many of those cases, it has been applied for longer durations than 8 minutes. The point is that Chauvin's use-of-force in this situation is (or at least was) pretty routine. This is nowhere near Rodney King territory. My personal view is that police should not be using this technique (except in limited applications, such as against soft ground, or as part of a momentary control while performing some other restraint technique), but I also think it's (yet another) travesty of justice to sacrifice Chauvin to appease the BLM mob, which is what is really happening here.

 

[dannno]

Hindsight is 20/20, and it’s hard to evaluate a situation unless you are there in the heat of the moment, but if I was to Monday morning quarterback this, I would recommend sitting him up against the car after handcuffed, and asking him why he can't breath, and if he needed medical treatment. Were those cops carrying Narcan?

But I was not there, and not angry that he wouldn't get into the car.

I got word yesterday that the reason the EMS and fire department took so long to get there (they were called to come on site LOOONG before) was due to some communication issues at the call center or something..

That is why he died in police hands, because it took EMS too long to arrive. The cop who had to hold him is taking all the blame.

He said he couldn't breath when they were trying to put him in the police car. Floyd said "put me on the ground" because Floyd knew the process, they hold you until EMS arrives, then these guys who eat their drugs just voluntarily go to the hospital to get their stomach pumped, as opposed to jail.

This former cop on Timcast last night talked all about how guys will feign having a medical condition, or just straight up tell the cops they took too many drugs and need EMS. He is a pretty good guy, not great on the war on drugs issue, but not the worst either. Tim Pool was trying to persuade him on the war on drugs issue several times.

They start by discussing the fact that the patrol car was searched by the defense team 8 months later, and they found a half chewed speedball that tested positive for Floyd's DNA.



In hindsight, yes, he should have taken his knee off after he stopped struggling in this situation.. but in other situations, guys will try and fight if you let up. Guys will wake up and start fighting more. Then you have the crowd - which - I believe if the crowd was not harassing and threatening the police (one guy was literally wanted to step in and stop it, another bystander was caught on video trying to hold him back), they likely would have been able to focus more on Floyd and possibly could have taken a different approach.

 

[dannno]

One of Tim Pools' theories (just a theory, he isn't sure of it, but it fits the situation) is that yes, in fact Chauvin did recognize Floyd from their employment together and was called on the site, hearing a bunch of noise about some rookie cops struggling with this guy who was fighting, kicking and wrestling them, got to the scene and was like "oh man, it's Floyd.." and this is why they went so light on him. They could have tased him (which could have also caused cardiac arrest), they could have beaten him, but they didn't.. and the witness on use of force testified during cross examination that they had every right to do that, and that holding him down, not tasing or beating him, was actually the most minimal force they could have applied in the situation.

 

[CaptUSA]

I got word yesterday that the reason the EMS and fire department took so long to get there (they were called to come on site LOOONG before) was due to some communication issues at the call center or something..

That is why he died in police hands, because it took EMS too long to arrive. The cop who had to hold him is taking all the blame.

Sorry, man... The way I see it is that the cops got called because a guy tried to pass off a bogus FRN to get a pack of cigs and they escalated it to the point of choking a guy out in front of a crowd. This is a law enforcement issue - not an issue with any particular cop.

You can blame the victim for not being subservient enough, you can blame the crowd for getting involved, you can blame miscommunication... But ultimately, the cops turned a weak attempt at petty theft into murder.

 

[TheCount]

This video seems very similar to the Tony Timpa video. No one would watch that and assume that the officers didn't kill that man, but the misdemeanors they were charged with were dismissed.

Does that mean that because those cops got off, these cops should get off too?

 

[dannno]

Sorry, man... The way I see it is that the cops got called because a guy tried to pass off a bogus FRN to get a pack of cigs and they escalated it to the point of choking a guy out in front of a crowd. This is a law enforcement issue - not an issue with any particular cop.

You can blame the victim for not being subservient enough, you can blame the crowd for getting involved, you can blame miscommunication... But ultimately, the cops turned a weak attempt at petty theft into murder.

Sure, but apparently Chauvin didn't show up until after the situation escalated.. he was there to de-escalate, and I don't know what more he could have done without proper hindsight. If we aren't putting all the blame on this one guy, do we put this guy in jail? I have no problem with looking at the system as a whole and trying to reform it, as opposed to blaming this one cop. It seems he is being used as the scapegoat.

 

[dannno]

Does that mean that because those cops got off, these cops should get off too?

The cops should get off, they just did what they were trained to do - and it wasn't completely unreasonable. The system could certainly use a lot of reform.

 

[CaptUSA]

Sure, but apparently Chauvin didn't show up until after the situation escalated.. he was there to de-escalate, and I don't know what more he could have done without proper hindsight. If we aren't putting all the blame on this one guy, do we put this guy in jail? I have no problem with looking at the system as a whole and trying to reform it, as opposed to blaming this one cop. It seems he is being used as the scapegoat.

More like a sacrificial lamb. They wouldn't want the citizenry to look at the institutions.

That being said, I'll lose no sleep if their foot soldiers start taking falls because of their practices. That could lead to some real change... Eventually.

 

[olehounddog]

Oh boy.
There goes the prosecution’s case!
Here comes the torchings, lootings, and destruction.

A national use-of-force expert testified on Tuesday that Officer Derek Chauvin DID NOT use deadly force on George Floyd during his arrest.


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...er-chauvin-not-use-deadly-force-george-floyd/

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Nancy Pelosi describes the impact the Derek Chauvin trial has had on her, calls George Floyd’s death a ‘public assassination’

Ledyard King and Susan Page, USA TODAY
Apr. 14, 2021

WASHINGTON – As she watched the Derek Chauvin murder trial, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was struck by the teenage girl who took the viral video of the Minneapolis Police officer as he knelt on George Floyd for nearly nine minutes in what Pelosi called a "public assassination."
Darnella Frazier, 18, testified March 30 that she remains haunted by the tragedy, staying up some nights "apologizing and apologizing to George Floyd for not doing more and not physically interacting and not saving his life."
Pelosi, D-Calif., said it hit a nerve.

"I feel sad about the spectators, and that that young woman who said she's up all night because she wonders what she could have done differently," Pelosi said. "I think if any of us was there, we would have gone up and just pulled him off him. But we might have gotten shot, and that's probably why somebody didn't pull him off."

usatoday.com/in-depth/news/politics/2021/04/14/nancy-pelosi-impact-derek-chauvin-trial-policing/7205667002/


Pelosi could see political fallout if turned out that she had supported foreign training trips of US police where such 'knee on neck' tactis were taught.

Brown Lives Matter: Israeli Soldiers Kill Unarmed Autistic Palestinian in Occupied E Jerusalem
Jun 01, 2020
MN cops learned Knee-On-Neck in Israeli training trip.

 

[dannno]

 

[CaptUSA]

Nancy Pelosi describes the impact the Derek Chauvin trial has had on her, calls George Floyd’s death a ‘public assassination’...


Pelosi could see political fallout if turned out that she had supported foreign training trips of US police where such 'knee on neck' tactis were taught.

Nevermind the tactics... How about the policies that led to this?! She supported all the drug laws that criminalized the lower class. She heartily supported militarizing the police. She supported the policies that make tobacco so expensive. And she called for a complete shut down of the economy that directly led George Floyd to be unemployed - causing him to try to swindle to get a pack of those expensive smokes.

Such a shame to see the result of all your good intentions, eh Nancy??

Of course, she will NEVER even conceive of her complicity in this situation.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Nevermind the tactics... How about the policies that led to this?! She supported all the drug laws that criminalized the lower class. She heartily supported militarizing the police. She supported the policies that make tobacco so expensive. And she called for a complete shut down of the economy that directly led George Floyd to be unemployed - causing him to try to swindle to get a pack of those expensive smokes.

Such a shame to see the result of all your good intentions, eh Nancy??

Of course, she will NEVER even conceive of her complicity in this situation.

Nancy is not that different from typical politicians, trying to swing point on every turn despite having supported policies causing given outcomes.


Pelosi takes a knee

From: Rising support for 'Take a knee'/BLM/Justice campaigns could harm global freedom wars?

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Source is a controversial fakenews outlet, exercise caution:


Biden preparing for 'tinderbox' with country on edge ahead of verdict in Chauvin trial

By Jeff Zeleny and Kevin Liptak, CNN
Updated 8:10 AM ET, Mon April 19, 2021

(CNN)President Joe Biden is keeping a watchful eye on this week's closing arguments in the Minneapolis trial of Derek Chauvin, fearful that a controversial verdict could inflame new racial tensions and further escalate a deepening crisis in confidence with the nation's police forces.

The President voiced his concern about potential fallout from the trial during a private meeting last week with members of the Congressional Black Caucus, people familiar with the session said. For weeks, it has also been a point of worry in conversations with Vice President Kamala Harris, aides say, even as the White House grapples with a cascading wave of mass shootings in America.
As he begins his fourth month in office, Biden is presiding over a country on edge, as protests in several cities over the weekend underscored the fresh urgency of a national reckoning on racial justice and police reform.

The White House is bracing for a week ahead that could be particularly volatile, with a Thursday funeral set for Daunte Wright -- another Minnesota man killed by a police officer -- along with new revelations from a police-involved shooting of a 13-year-old boy in Chicago, as well as the verdict in the Chauvin trial.

cnn.com/2021/04/19/politics/joe-biden-chauvin-trial-preparations/index.html


Sources: NBA tells teams to be ready for impact of verdict in Derek Chauvin trial

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...eams-ready-impact-verdict-derek-chauvin-trial