Delaware becomes 1st state to officially outlaw spanking

Sheesh, what a messy thread. I'm having my first child in a couple of months, and I guess I'll have to rethink using disciplinary techniques such as beating my daughter with a rusty, iron chain, burning her with cigarettes, lightly swatting her bottom when she misbehaves and does not respond to reason, punching her in the face, or tying her to the back of my car and driving over a gravelly road.
 
Sheesh, what a messy thread. I'm having my first child in a couple of months, and I guess I'll have to rethink using disciplinary techniques such as beating my daughter with a rusty, iron chain, burning her with cigarettes, lightly swatting her bottom when she misbehaves and does not respond to reason, punching her in the face, or tying her to the back of my car and driving over a gravelly road.

Well you know, they get real uppity if you don't beat the hell out of them at least once a week.
 
There are many studies which have been done specifically on the milder, very prevalent form of corporal punishment -- swatting on the butt without the intention of causing injury. I would appreciate it if you would watch the following

At 6:45 or so they define corporal punishment as spanking at least 3 times a week. He also talks about spanking all the way up through high school. I would agree that there are probably long term effects on both the children and parents in this sort of relationship. That being said, I don't think an infrequent swat on the bottom of a small child (up through age 5 or so) will lead to alcoholism or any of the other claimed results.
 
Wesker1982 - Picking up the child trying to run into the street qualifies as abuse using your criteria (see: "offensive physical contact" part of the definition of the word "assault" you cited in your article). The child does not want you to pick him up and keep him out of the street, making it assault by definition - you are not allowed to arrest anyone's person without their permission even when the activity is considered detrimental to the individual. Given you have conflated "assault" with "abuse", you don't have a case here.

Similarly, words are devious - it can be argued spanking isn't abuse by virtue of arguing that spanking isn't producing pain caused by mal-treatment, but rather beneficial treatment that resulted in pain as a side-effect.

The problem is what qualifies as abuse is largely a matter of perspective dependent on an individual's philosophy and understanding of the world. Even if all the world reached universal agreement that spanking is abuse...that doesn't make it so.

Of course, you are free to view parents that spank in a lower light than those that don't, but beyond that your arguments don't hold any particular special relevance in the matter. All that matters, in the end, is that parents are going to parent how they see fit. The State isn't the solution, and if people really want to stop spanking, then they need to make an appeal to prospective parents that will raise the next generation.
 
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You know, just when I was starting to think libertarians were worth taking seriously this thread blows that right out of the water. They're apparently no better than the progressives at reigning in their impulses to control other people.

And if you think I'm prone to bashing libertarians please check my comments.
Collectivist. :p
 
If I physically assault somebody there's blood usually associated with anger, if I spank my child it's for correction and there's never blood and I don't spank when I'm angry.


hahahahaha


I am so glad you brought this up.


My parents hit me when I was growing up- all of us actually. (I am the eldest of 5). Sometimes I would do something particularly offensive to my mother, and she would throw something at me while uttering a curse. Sometimes I would just insult and disrespectfully talk to my father and he would just punch my arm hard. Or the finger poke- he lost the tip of his middle finger as a kid in a bike chain, so his middle and index finger were the same length, and that was a mean jab to the pecs.

They were volatile, mediterranean people- my father explained that as a kid, his dad's family from the old country (malta) would visit, and he saw BOTH PARENTS bite the shit out of their daughter over knocking a ball in a neighbor's yard. His own father was an abusive drunk. So, they just had mad rage in them. (haha I don't know what my mother's problem is- her father is a very civlized opera-listener/oil-painting piano player and her mom was pretty mellow- I think her oldest sister is a violent psycho though). It was multi-generational; as a little kid I was aware of this, that it just gets passed along.

But, that was an understanding of angry violence, which is entirely to this day, eminently rational to me. If one angers another more powerful than himself, one is inviting hurt. That is a property of dealing with anger and what I am glad to have learned from my parents hitting me.



haha so anyway, for years, I thought that this is what people meant by spanking, and I defended spanking kids, thinking it meant swatting the upstart cubs with restrained claw in moments of heat and tension.


I was like 18 though when I read desmond morris, and he discussed school-spanking, and even older when I saw depicted on television that you are talking about- dispassionate, "not angry" spanking. Policy spanking! LOL

THAT seems thorooughly wrong, warped, and twisted to me. I think that would be way more damaging than internalizing not to fuck with the aggressive one.

How do you not feel very uncomfortable with the sadistic sexual element of it? Do you imagine that your child is not learning twisted sexual lessons from it? So fuckin' weird. Ew it creeps me out to envision. When i learned that this is what people meant by spanking! haha fuck that- I am an anti-spanker.
But I do think that a house should have a jail-house, clan-of-the-cave-bear curriculum dimension to it, in order for one to grow up capable of defending themselves and recognizing threatening situations/body language.
 
How do you not feel very uncomfortable with the sadistic sexual element of it? Do you imagine that your child is not learning twisted sexual lessons from it? So fuckin' weird. Ew it creeps me out to envision. When i learned that this is what people meant by spanking! haha fuck that- I am an anti-spanker.

Being able to equate sexual behavior with disciplining a child is more than just a tad off in my opinion.

If a person gets aroused by their own child there's some underlying issues that have nothing to do with discipline.

It's really difficult to grasp your concept that anyone could confuse disciplining a child with sexual spanking, I suppose there are some genuinely confused and screwed up people in the world, (or else you never would have brought up this twisted scenario), but somehow I don't think it's the average parent who spanks their child as punishment.

You know what creeps me out? Adults teaching children that parents get off on spanking their kids.

What's even creepier is adults teaching kids that they can use "the trauma of being spanked" to justify abhorrent behavior later in life.

Yup, creepy.
 
Son of a Bitch!

Now I cant go to Delaware anymore to get my S&M Fetish on!

Oh, spanking children, my bad!
 
I think changing people's beliefs on this is a better solution than using government force, but spanking children is abuse. (please actually read before saying "wuuuuut about running into the street?!")

Thats an opinion. Your opinion. One that is flawed. Equating spanking as physical assault is just plain twisting things around to push an agenda. There has been a powerful movement to strip parents of thier ability to properly disipline their children, surrendering that responsibility to the state.

Sure there are cases of abuse, but banning all forms of spanking is not the answer. It would be like banning alcohol because some people abuse it. It is not the answer. Personal responsibility....
 
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How many kids do I have? Are you implying that if I have no kids then I'm not qualified to discuss this?

I think what most people think about when people start advocating things they have no experience with such as having a 4 year old go out of control and destructive and violent, then you might not know what your talking about.
 
I think what most people think about when people start advocating things they have no experience with such as having a 4 year old go out of control and destructive and violent, then you might not know what your talking about.

And even if they have that particular experience, they still don't have the experience of being the ultimate caregiver and decision maker in regards to teaching that child. It is easy to make rules and tell people what they can and can't do when you aren't ultimately the one that is responsible.
 
Being able to equate sexual behavior with disciplining a child is more than just a tad off in my opinion.

well then you are a sexually repressed, anal-retentive lol.

are you seriously going to deny the parallels?



If a person gets aroused by their own child there's some underlying issues that have nothing to do with discipline.

well see "my child" is an idea- ass-cheeks turning pink is a sense-impression. The mind is aroused by sense impressions and ideas alike. And I didn't even mention the parent being aroused anyway- I asked about the obvious sexual parallels, and how you imagine this might affect the child's sexual development. Haha, you brought that into the conversation man.

It's really difficult to grasp your concept that anyone could confuse disciplining a child with sexual spanking,

see again you are assigning this concept to the behavior- I am not talking about the concept of discipline, I am talking about the act of dispassionately telling someone to bend over, and then, without any anger(?!) spanking them. Just the act itself...is weird. Say it out loud and see how it affects your heart rate. I bet it makes you uncomfortable to even speak, even alone. That's because it's creepy.

I suppose there are some genuinely confused and screwed up people in the world, (or else you never would have brought up this twisted scenario), but somehow I don't think it's the average parent who spanks their child as punishment.

ok so to clariy- when you say that you spank them, but not when you are angry: can you like, tell me what that means? Haha is their ass bare? I actually meant that, for the record, as I mentioned old spanking as done in schools or in the victorian era or some shit. Crazy white people stuff.

You know what creeps me out? Adults teaching children that parents get off on spanking their kids.

nope, wasn't talking about getting off. I was only saying that the imagery and actions and speech involved are most definitely sexual impressions, and question how effective this is as a child-rearing technique.

What's even creepier is adults teaching kids that they can use "the trauma of being spanked" to justify abhorrent behavior later in life.

I know that if my father or mother practiced this strange form of spanking, I'd have some of you motherfuckers in jars in my closet. I can't see how that doesn't warp the psyche. It probably manifests though as Conservative voting behavior, support for war, and homophobia.
 
I think what most people think about when people start advocating things they have no experience with such as having a 4 year old go out of control and destructive and violent, then you might not know what your talking about.

Have you ever been to Afghanistan or Iraq? How dare you voice your opinion on such matters. If you haven't experienced it first-hand then you cannot possibly form a perfectly valid cogent analysis. Right....I have an imaginary bridge to sell you, never mind the fact that every single human being was a child at some point.
 
You can say spanking isn't hitting or abuse...but our government says a lot of things as well.

All I'm doing is looking at our Non-Aggression Principal and definitions of hitting, assault and battery, and abuse. In no case can I find any qualifiers that would allow special privileges to parents. I can't find anything that qualifies a child as less than a "person". I find no qualifiers for good intentions, nor does "love" have a part in these definitions. I also find no qualifiers for "parenting".

Now if you want to create an unwritten amendment to these definitions, then please stop railing on the government for doing the same. In the mean-time I find it to be dangerous and authoritarian to group people as collectives (ie. children, adults, blacks, whites...etc). Once you start doing that you set a precedent. I also find it dangerous to own people as that sets a precedent. This mindset of ownership means you can do whatever you want, but obviously you can't do whatever you want with your child (kill, torture are obvious examples)...so you don't own him/her.
 
Expect more of this in Delaware.



An excellent argument for confinement loaf.

The loaf could also be designed to curb obeseity.

Sadly, over the scanner I frequently hear of police getting called to the public schools for bad behavior. Most recently the kids have been around the age of 10.

Don't know about any handcuffs used, but handcuffs or not this whole state-children 'relationship' is bullshit. The sooner the state gets out of the child rearing/brainwashing business the better.
 
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