Delaware becomes 1st state to officially outlaw spanking

[cavalier973]

I completely agree, which is why teaching them that using violence to get what you want is very dangerous.

They already know how to use violence, which is why they need spankings.

 

[Dr.3D]

Lol you don't have to quote Non-Aggression Principal like I just pulled it out of my ass. The Non-Aggression Principal IS Libertarianism, it's the foundational philosophy for all things Libertarian. If you don't subscribe to it, then you're not a Libertarian. If that's the case, I wasn't talking to you in my previous post.

Here's the wiki on it, so you can catch up.

How many kids do I have? Are you implying that if I have no kids then I'm not qualified to discuss this? That's an Ad Hominem. Here's an Ad Hominem example: Perhaps you spank because you lack communication skills (e.g Ad Hominem attacks).
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To Feeding the Abscess. I believe the Non-Aggression Principal SHOULD be law.

Is spanking not a form of communication? Does it not only communicate but demonstrate at the same time that actions have consequences?

Yep, spanking is a form of communication. Those who don't understand this, need to try training horses. Sometimes there is no better way to communicate than to apply to the physical side of things. When negative behavior happens, the appropriate response should be immediate and consistent. It's much like how people learn when there is no one around. When you touch a hot burner and your finger gets burned, you quickly learn not to touch hot burners.

 

[cavalier973]

The last scourge of the loser in any argument is attacking the character of those they are conversing with.

Like when certain folks say (or imply) that certain other folks are "child abusers"?

It's even worse because there are hardly any advocates for their behalf.

And this is just nonsense. Parents, even (maybe especially) those who spank their child, are the greatest advocates that the child will ever know. Facebook philosophers who don't feed the child, care for the child when he is sick, take responsibility for the child's education, provide for the child's entertainment, sacrifice for the child's comfort, are hardly the ones to tell a parent that he is "doing it wrong".

My children aren't my property, but they are my responsibility, and as such they feel my authority over their lives. If I feel that spanking is necessary for their well-being, then I will spank them.

I suspect that a lot of the people who oppose spanking are followers of Stefan Molyneux.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Dictatorship anyone?

 

[Dr.3D]

Dictatorship anyone?

I'm the dictator in my home.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I have something for the judges and courts and government of Delaware.CPS needs to be abolished

 

[Dr.3D]

I have something for the judges and courts and government of Delaware.CPS needs to be abolished

LOL, we had one of those hanging on the wall in our kitchen. It was different in only one way though, it had the words, "Board of Education" printed on it.

 

[cavalier973]

None of my own, but I was the oldest child, and I've had 100s, if not 1000s, of hours of experience with young children, both relative and non-relative.

In other words, your experience does not entail children that you love unconditionally, and that love you in return.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

the only circumstance in which I believe a child of the age 4-5 maybe 6 needs to be spanked is when they do something violent against a sibling such as hit/scratch or bite purposely to harm their sibling or someone else and that it must be done immediately to show them that what they did was wrong then place them in time out to think about it.Letting a kid become violent towards their brother/sister/mother/father/grandparent at an early age is a VERY bad thing to allow.

 

[specsaregood]

In other words, your experience does not entail children that you love unconditionally, and that love you in return.

i hope that I never have to spank my child as the thought of it hurts. but if I judge that I need to, I will. and the state has no business in the matter.

 

[asurfaholic]

In other words, your experience does not entail children that you love unconditionally, and that love you in return.

Who cares even if he did have that blessing, he would still have no business acting like he knows whats best for MY child..

But i agree, whats more insulting than someone trying to tell you how to raise your child, is someone without children telling you how.

 

[Origanalist]

Who cares even if he did have that blessing, he would still have no business acting like he knows whats best for MY child..

But i agree, whats more insulting than someone trying to tell you how to raise your child, is someone without children telling you how.

What's the difference between a self righteous libertarian and a self righteous progressive? Apparently not much when it comes to telling others how to conduct their family affairs.

 

[DamianTV]

What's the difference between a self righteous libertarian and a self righteous progressive? Apparently not much when it comes to telling others how to conduct their family affairs.

Peanut Butter. Chocolate.

 

[specsaregood]

Peanut Butter. Chocolate.

I'm not sure you can feed those to kids anymore, some might deem it abusive. esp. if the kid has bad teeth, a weight problem, adhd, acne, or something.

 

[ZenBowman]

USA's future is screwed. More and more kids feel self-entitled and are empowered by the liberals... Taking power out of "grown-ups".

Spanking exists for thousands of years and humans turned out fine.

Not really, no.

Spanking is for neocons (srs).

 

[DamianTV]

Neocons also want Waterboarding to be legal too. Maybe instead of spanking the Neocons when they misbehave, we should Waterboard them instead? I fear too many Neocons would actually enjoy being spanked, but being Waterboarded, thats a whole different story...

 

[jkr]

are they gonna ban cops kicking the shit out of people too...cause that seems a lot more of a problem these days

 

[Nirvikalpa]

While I usually snicker at the whole concept of the non-aggression principle, I find it especially hilarious to apply it to dealing with toddlers. Those little demons will eat you alive.

There are only two ways to persuade people. Logic and force. 2 year olds don't comprehend logic.

The concrete operational stage doesn't occur until ages 7-11, and is the stage where "logic thought" first (according to science) occurs. Shall we still spank our 7-11 year olds because all they understand is force?

 

[Mr. Perfidy]

The weak under-belly of the libertarian intellectual movement is child rights.

I think that we need like a Manifesto of Child Rights

 

[king_nothing_]

What's the difference between a self righteous libertarian and a self righteous progressive? Apparently not much when it comes to telling others how to conduct their family affairs.

When you dress it up as "conducting family affairs", it sounds fine, and you sound like the victim of tyranny. When you call it what it is, physical assault, the child is rightly portrayed as the victim. Deep down I think you may know your stance on this is flimsy and a bit off...why else would you dress it up as "conducting family affairs" and avoid describing it as simply as possible: "It's insulting that someone would try to tell me that I can't hit/strike/beat my child." If you actually have no moral qualms with such actions, then you should have no problem referring to it plainly instead of using euphemisms.

Do children deserve enough individual rights to be protected from physical abuse? And before you say it's not really physical abuse...what is the purpose of the action? The purpose is to cause physical pain to the child to teach them some lesson. Striking someone in order to cause them physical pain is physical abuse, regardless of whatever positive purpose you attach to it.

Should you have the right to beat your wife if she misbehaves? No? Why not? Because her mental capacity is higher than that of a child's, and she is able to respond to reasoning, whereas a child cannot? What if she's mentally disabled? What's the difference then? Should you be able to beat her then?

The "it's the only way to make them listen" argument is obviously fallacious as well; plenty of people have raised children without spanking them and been enormously successful. There's also mountains of empirical evidence proving that spanked children develop mental health issues at a higher frequency than non-spanked children. Mountains. I'm guessing you've either never bothered to explore such evidence, or just wrote it off as "lefty nonsense" or something upon merely hearing about it.

I'm not all that enamored by arguments from effect such as those, though. The moral argument is more than sufficient: the initiation of violence is wrong. Stop initiating violence against your children.