Debt hits 18 trillion!

[georgiaboy]

Finally my chance to post this, ironically:

 

[Zippyjuan]

Money and currency are not the same thing Zip.
the Bernanke worked for a private contractor. who has license to create our currency.

what IS our currency today? 1's and 0's on a computer screen.
sorry to bust your "bubble"
but Bitcoin is not a new idea.
"printing" "money" is SO..
60's?
somebody help me out here, how long has our currency been digital?

Currency is cash. Currency is printed by the US Treasury Department. About ten percent of our current money supply exists in the form of currency. Our debt is not currency.

The first computer used by a bank was in the 1950's http://about.bankofamerica.com/en-u...revolutionizes-industry.html#fbid=7m6eH7Fmw5j but one could argue that paper checks were the first form of "non- currency" US money.

 

[Acala]

A debt that can never be repaid, and serves only to enslave future generations. And no one has a problem with that. smfh

You are right that it will never be repaid. Except possibly with seriously devalued dollars.

 

[Lucille]

http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/02/federal-debt-soared-above-18-trillion-la

Congratulations, America! You, or rather your elected officials, smashed through the $18 trillion ceiling last week, raising the United States government's total outstanding public debt to new heights and leaving shards of devalued greenbacks scattered around the place.

Woo hoo.
[...]
One decade ago, on December 1, 2004, the sum was a wussy $7.5 trillion. It took a lot of hard work to run up another 10-plus trillion in debt in those intervening years. This country won't bankrupt itself, you know. It takes government officials years of subsidizing, overpromising, overspending, and maybe some outright theft to put that many numbers in a row, slather them with red ink, and hand the bill to our grandkids.

The killjoys at the Congressional Budget Office say this pattern of continuing deficits and rising debt threatens to drain money from private investment, compromise national security, and lock the federal government into doing little other than paying the interest on what it already borrowed—a situation they call "unsustainable."

But that's just crazy talk. Who says you can't just borrow your way into the future and never pay it back without nasty consequences? Whaddya say we shoot for $50 trillion?

Why not?! We're told debt is wealth, after all!

 

[Zippyjuan]

It is "manageable" for as long as others are willing to buy the debt (US Treasuries). That could end tomorrow or fifty or 100 years from now.

 

[Lucille]

It is "manageable" for as long as others are willing to buy the debt (US Treasuries). That could end tomorrow or fifty or 100 years from now.

This is "manageable?":

The killjoys at the Congressional Budget Office say this pattern of continuing deficits and rising debt threatens to drain money from private investment, compromise national security, and lock the federal government into doing little other than paying the interest on what it already borrowed—a situation they call "unsustainable."

Americans could end it today if they'd wake up, realize their power, and instead of writing useless SWLOD, they hit Leviathan where it counts.

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-only-way-to-stop-empire.html

Many have said that the US doesn’t need tax money as it survives on endless debt. Yes, the empire lives on debt, but the ability to sell debt is based on the bond rating of US treasury bonds. Most recently in June, 2014 S&P gave the US a AA+ rating with “stable outlook.”

If there is any doubt about the US credit rating, the ability to sell debt to continue financing the empire comes into question. The ability to collect taxes is what maintains the US bond rating. Any reduction of the US bond rating, and interest rates have to go up in order to continue attracting more investment. Then the interest on the debt balloons out of control and becomes unrepayable—never mind the principal, which they have no intention of ever paying back. By the way, the Tea Party’s efforts to shut down government by refusing to raise the debt ceiling was helping this effort for a time, although for different reasons. They thought that the welfare system is bankrupting the country. This is a laughable claim, because welfare spending looks negligible when compared to military spending. Still, they did manage to lower the bond rating for a time. Shutting down the federal government is a step in the right direction, and since in recent years only the Tea Party has managed to do it, lets give them some credit.

If the US became unable to reliably collect taxes, then its ability to finance the empire with debt would be diminished, and the US would have to turn to increasing taxes—another politically unpalatable choice, especially in the age of the Tea Party, when the empire’s main constituency is dead-set against more taxes. So it is absolutely clear that the only thing that could stop the empire is a tax revolt. It wouldn’t even have to be that big; the slightest question about the ability of the federal government to collect taxes could reduce the bond rating. Even a minor reduction could raise interest rates enough to make the US debt unrepayable.

 

[Zippyjuan]

How would you suggest we deal with it?

 

[Acala]

It is "manageable" for as long as others are willing to buy the debt (US Treasuries). That could end tomorrow or fifty or 100 years from now.

Unlikely that people will continue to buy the debt when interest exceeds revenue. But you never know . . .

 

[Ronin Truth]

What about the other 200+ TRILLION $ Fed Government debt?

 

[Occam's Banana]

It is "manageable" for as long as others are willing to buy the debt (US Treasuries). That could end tomorrow or fifty or 100 years from now.

Anything so contingent upon the caprice of others can hardly be said to be "manageable."

That's like saying that being hit by a bus is "manageable" merely because one has not been hit by a bus yet ...

 

[Ronin Truth]

How would you suggest we deal with it?

Repudiate and default, deadbeats have a much harder time borrowing.

"I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the administration of our government to the genuine principles of its Constitution; I mean an additional article, taking from the federal government the power of borrowing." -- TJ

 

[Madison320]

How would you suggest we deal with it?

I think there's 2 ways to deal with the debt. One is to do the right thing now and the other is to let the whole thing collapse and then do the right thing. The right thing would be to massively cut spending (by at least 50%, probably a lot more), switch to a gold standard and cut taxes. The problem is that we've waited so long to do the right thing that this will cause a massive depression. Eventually we'd recover and have a real economy but the blame for the crash would be on the cure (cutting spending, etc). I think the best solution is to keep warning and explaining about what happens with too much debt and printing so that when the crash happens we'll hopefully blame it on the correct cause.

 

[Lucille]

How would you suggest we deal with it?

Answered already:

So it is absolutely clear that the only thing that could stop the empire is a tax revolt. It wouldn’t even have to be that big; the slightest question about the ability of the federal government to collect taxes could reduce the bond rating. Even a minor reduction could raise interest rates enough to make the US debt unrepayable.

Tax Revolt Methods
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/12/tax-revolt-methods.html

‘Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break into pieces.”
Étienne de la Boétie, 1552

 

[Zippyjuan]

I think there's 2 ways to deal with the debt. One is to do the right thing now and the other is to let the whole thing collapse and then do the right thing. The right thing would be to massively cut spending (by at least 50%, probably a lot more), switch to a gold standard and cut taxes. The problem is that we've waited so long to do the right thing that this will cause a massive depression. Eventually we'd recover and have a real economy but the blame for the crash would be on the cure (cutting spending, etc). I think the best solution is to keep warning and explaining about what happens with too much debt and printing so that when the crash happens we'll hopefully blame it on the correct cause.

Going to a gold standard would do nothing to reduce debt so that would be besides trying to deal with it if you want to do that. Tax cuts would have to be more than offset by spending cuts- otherwise the debt will continue to grow. If the intent was to somehow actually pay off the debt, you have to run a $1 trillion budget surplus for 20 years. I don't see that happening.

I think realistically, the only way to really make it go away is to default which would cause lots of economic pain as well.

There is no realistic solution at this point so it will keep getting kicked down the road. The best shot we had at dealing with it was at the end of the Clinton presidency when things were nearly balanced. Unfortunately the government decided to cut taxes on the wealthy and start two wars- both of which caused it to soar again. Debt back then was "only" $5.6 trillion.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Answered already:

So it is absolutely clear that the only thing that could stop the empire is a tax revolt. It wouldn’t even have to be that big; the slightest question about the ability of the federal government to collect taxes could reduce the bond rating. Even a minor reduction could raise interest rates enough to make the US debt unrepayable.

Tax Revolt Methods
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/12/tax-revolt-methods.html

Cutting taxes adds to the debt. Lower bond ratings don't necessarily end it either as long as they can still borrow money- unless it leads to default which is probably the only way we will see the debt eliminated but thank you for adding your thoughts.

 

[Deborah K]

Answered already:

So it is absolutely clear that the only thing that could stop the empire is a tax revolt. It wouldn’t even have to be that big; the slightest question about the ability of the federal government to collect taxes could reduce the bond rating. Even a minor reduction could raise interest rates enough to make the US debt unrepayable.

Tax Revolt Methods
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/12/tax-revolt-methods.html

One of the best books ever written on the subject is this one: Constitutional Income: Do you have any? http://www.constitutionalincome.com/index.html

 

[Danke]

One of the best books ever written on the subject is this one: Constitutional Income: Do you have any? http://www.constitutionalincome.com/index.html

It is good, but I agree with Hendrickson. Phil got the 16A wrong.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ked-scanners&p=2780442&viewfull=1#post2780442

 

[HVACTech]

Currency is cash. Currency is printed by the US Treasury Department. About ten percent of our current money supply exists in the form of currency. Our debt is not currency.

that's pretty complicated dude...

so, our debt is NOT currency. (our debt is not cash)
very astute and generous to chose that the amount of "cash" is 10%
therefore, 90% is digital?
does it really matter if the "note" is a check, a FRN or a debit card?
how is this not akin to access to your Bitcoins?

the Bernanke LOVES you!

"Money" and Currency" are not the same thing.
I will liken this to AC and DC power supplies.
YES!!!!
both AC AND DC power (electric) have very similar properties.

you also must never confuse the two.

 

[Danke]

 

[Zippyjuan]

"Eventually the price of gold and silver will be equal to or exceed the supply of all the money in the world"? When was the last time that happened? And how does one calculate it?