redbluepill
Member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2011
- Messages
- 521
Hey guys, thought I would get some help on this discussion I'm having with my uncle. As you will see he is very much brainwashed by the mainstream media, especially Fox News.
First I posted a link on Facebook to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SMHBEAeNa-c
Uncle: Yes, imagine the world under sharia law. Do you really believe that if we got out of those countries that they would leave us alone?
Me: Well Uncle... would you fight against Russia or China if they occupied our country?
Uncle: Do you think that we treat other countries like Russia or China, or Islam for that matter would treat us? Still, it has never been the US's goal to "occupy" them. We would have gotten more flack if we had left them to fend for themselves. There would be a lot less stability and freedom for the people if we were not there. Like it or not, it is what it is and if you think that if we get out of there, that they will leave us alone, knowing the goals of Islam, it ain't gonna happen.
Me: You haven't answered the question. Neoconservative Paul Wolfowitz in an interview with Vanity Fair said himself: "There are a lot of things that are different now, and one that has gone by almost unnoticed--but it's huge--is that by complete mutual agreement between the U.S. and the Saudi government we can now remove almost all of our forces from Saudi Arabia. Their presence there over the last 12 years has been a source of enormous difficulty for a friendly government. It's been a huge recruiting device for al Qaeda. In fact if you look at bin Laden, one of his principle grievances was the presence of so-called crusader forces on the holy land, Mecca and Medina. I think just lifting that burden from the Saudis is itself going to open the door to other positive things."
Uncle: You can't use China and Russia occupying the US as a comparison to our presence in the middle east. If I were in the middle east, and not a Muslim, I would welcome US occupation. The Muslims in these countries treat these people like the Chinese and Russians would treat us if they occupied us. Again, getting the US out of the middle east will not stop Islam or bring peace. It will only further the suppression for those who oppose Islam and embolden them to further spread Islam. I like how Osama mentioned the crusaders. As bad as the crusaders were to an extent, one thing they did accomplish was to keep Islam from taking over Europe. Again, the goal of Islam is to take over the world for Allah, Then there will be peace. And that includes the US.
Me: You obviously do not understand what I mean by the comparison. Once you answer we can move forward in our discussion. I'll ask again: If China and Russia occupied the US would you fight/resist them?
Uncle: Evidently, I can't see the comparison, and I don't think you really understand the threat of Islam.
Me: Its a real simple question Uncle John. Just answer it.
Uncle: I would answer yes. But what's your point? What does it have to do with how we treat other countries we so call "occupy"
Me: Look up the history of the US and Middle East interventionism. The interventionism took place before the widespread terrorist attacks. The US government supported despotic governments in the ME that oppressed their own people. That is where most of the hate lies. Watch this video for a brief history of Iran-US relations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WVtpao0KSM
Uncle: And Iran is doing a lot better without us there, eh? I see that they have so much more freedom now with Khomeni and company now. Like the shutting down of the protestors earlier this year.
Me: Never once did I say anything in support for that twisted dictator. I am showing you the origins of terrorism. Terrorism isn't restricted to one single religion. There have been christian terrorists, hindu terrorists, as well as muslim terrorists. Religion may be a tool to fuel terrorism, but what truly drives it is occupation.
Me Again: In October, 2005, Dr. Pape was interviewed at a roundtable discussion sponsored by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life about his research conclusions on whether Islamic extremism motivates terrorism. Pape discussed his findings with is interviewer:
The conventional wisdom is that suicide terrorism is motivated by religious fanaticism - religious hatred combined with the promise of a martyr's paradise in the hereafter. What does your own research suggest? The conventional wisdom is mostly wrong. Suicide terrorism is not mainly the product of Islamic fundamentalism or any other evil ideology independent of circumstance. I have studied 462 suicide terrorists; over half are secular. The world leader in suicide terrorism is the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka - they're a Marxist group, a secular group, a Hindu group. The Tamil Tigers have committed more suicide terrorist attacks than Hamas or Islamic Jihad. Instead, what more than 95 percent of all suicide terrorist attacks since 1980 have in common is not religion, but a specific secular goal: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory the terrorists view as their homeland. From Lebanon to Chechnya to Kashmir to Sri Lanka to the West Bank, every suicide terrorist campaign since 1980 has had as its main objective to compel a democratic state to withdraw combat forces from territory that the terrorists prize. http://terrorism.about.com/od/causes/f/SuicideBombFAQ.htm
And Again: You say yes that you would fight anyone who occupied the US, then you finally understand the roots of the hatred towards our government.
Obviously its pretty frustrating for me to see a relative so brainwashed. Any debate strategies that have worked for you guys?
First I posted a link on Facebook to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SMHBEAeNa-c
Uncle: Yes, imagine the world under sharia law. Do you really believe that if we got out of those countries that they would leave us alone?
Me: Well Uncle... would you fight against Russia or China if they occupied our country?
Uncle: Do you think that we treat other countries like Russia or China, or Islam for that matter would treat us? Still, it has never been the US's goal to "occupy" them. We would have gotten more flack if we had left them to fend for themselves. There would be a lot less stability and freedom for the people if we were not there. Like it or not, it is what it is and if you think that if we get out of there, that they will leave us alone, knowing the goals of Islam, it ain't gonna happen.
Me: You haven't answered the question. Neoconservative Paul Wolfowitz in an interview with Vanity Fair said himself: "There are a lot of things that are different now, and one that has gone by almost unnoticed--but it's huge--is that by complete mutual agreement between the U.S. and the Saudi government we can now remove almost all of our forces from Saudi Arabia. Their presence there over the last 12 years has been a source of enormous difficulty for a friendly government. It's been a huge recruiting device for al Qaeda. In fact if you look at bin Laden, one of his principle grievances was the presence of so-called crusader forces on the holy land, Mecca and Medina. I think just lifting that burden from the Saudis is itself going to open the door to other positive things."
Uncle: You can't use China and Russia occupying the US as a comparison to our presence in the middle east. If I were in the middle east, and not a Muslim, I would welcome US occupation. The Muslims in these countries treat these people like the Chinese and Russians would treat us if they occupied us. Again, getting the US out of the middle east will not stop Islam or bring peace. It will only further the suppression for those who oppose Islam and embolden them to further spread Islam. I like how Osama mentioned the crusaders. As bad as the crusaders were to an extent, one thing they did accomplish was to keep Islam from taking over Europe. Again, the goal of Islam is to take over the world for Allah, Then there will be peace. And that includes the US.
Me: You obviously do not understand what I mean by the comparison. Once you answer we can move forward in our discussion. I'll ask again: If China and Russia occupied the US would you fight/resist them?
Uncle: Evidently, I can't see the comparison, and I don't think you really understand the threat of Islam.
Me: Its a real simple question Uncle John. Just answer it.
Uncle: I would answer yes. But what's your point? What does it have to do with how we treat other countries we so call "occupy"
Me: Look up the history of the US and Middle East interventionism. The interventionism took place before the widespread terrorist attacks. The US government supported despotic governments in the ME that oppressed their own people. That is where most of the hate lies. Watch this video for a brief history of Iran-US relations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WVtpao0KSM
Uncle: And Iran is doing a lot better without us there, eh? I see that they have so much more freedom now with Khomeni and company now. Like the shutting down of the protestors earlier this year.
Me: Never once did I say anything in support for that twisted dictator. I am showing you the origins of terrorism. Terrorism isn't restricted to one single religion. There have been christian terrorists, hindu terrorists, as well as muslim terrorists. Religion may be a tool to fuel terrorism, but what truly drives it is occupation.
Me Again: In October, 2005, Dr. Pape was interviewed at a roundtable discussion sponsored by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life about his research conclusions on whether Islamic extremism motivates terrorism. Pape discussed his findings with is interviewer:
The conventional wisdom is that suicide terrorism is motivated by religious fanaticism - religious hatred combined with the promise of a martyr's paradise in the hereafter. What does your own research suggest? The conventional wisdom is mostly wrong. Suicide terrorism is not mainly the product of Islamic fundamentalism or any other evil ideology independent of circumstance. I have studied 462 suicide terrorists; over half are secular. The world leader in suicide terrorism is the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka - they're a Marxist group, a secular group, a Hindu group. The Tamil Tigers have committed more suicide terrorist attacks than Hamas or Islamic Jihad. Instead, what more than 95 percent of all suicide terrorist attacks since 1980 have in common is not religion, but a specific secular goal: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory the terrorists view as their homeland. From Lebanon to Chechnya to Kashmir to Sri Lanka to the West Bank, every suicide terrorist campaign since 1980 has had as its main objective to compel a democratic state to withdraw combat forces from territory that the terrorists prize. http://terrorism.about.com/od/causes/f/SuicideBombFAQ.htm
And Again: You say yes that you would fight anyone who occupied the US, then you finally understand the roots of the hatred towards our government.
Obviously its pretty frustrating for me to see a relative so brainwashed. Any debate strategies that have worked for you guys?
