Cruz family Canada records could be available . . .

[Danke]

There is a lot of ambiguity- even 200 years after the Constitution- or this thread would have a simple, irrefutable answer. There would be no question.

Born outside the US? Not a citizen.

But what about if somebody travels abroad and has a kid while they are there? Is the kid not a US citizen? What if both parents are US citizens and they return to live in the US? What if only parent is a US citizen and the family moves back to the US? What about the child of foreign parents born in the US? Are they citizens?

It does, you just can comprehend it. You keep mixing up citizenship with natural born.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Ted Cruz naturalized by statute - was not a natural born Citizen by the well-established definition used in the Constitution.

Canada records for the Cruz family from 1967 - 1975, and for Ted in 2014 need to be certified from Canada or not . . .
that is the only question of this thread.

Ted Cruz will not be able to stay seated in the US Senate as he is only a very recent expatriate of Canada, eligibility in 2023 -
once Canada or an International court allows the release not authorized by the expatriate born in Alberta in late 1970.

https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-naturalization

Citizenship Through Naturalization

Naturalization is the process by which U.S. citizenship is granted to a foreign citizen or national after he or she fulfills the requirements established by Congress in the Immigration and Nationality Act

Citizenship at birth is not naturalization. By your definition, Ron Paul was naturalized at birth by statute by the 14th Amendment and is not eligible to run for president.

 

[Zippyjuan]

It does, you just can comprehend it. You keep mixing up citizenship with natural born.

There are two ways to obtain citizenship- by birth or by Naturalization. If you did not need to be naturalized a citizen after birth to become a US citizen, you were naturally born a citizen.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-and-still-become-president-of-the-us/275469/

Helpfully, the Congressional Research Service gathered all of the information relevant to Cruz's case a few years ago, at the height (nadir?) of Obama birtherism. In short, the Constitution says that the president must be a natural-born citizen. "The weight of scholarly legal and historical opinion appears to support the notion that 'natural born Citizen' means one who is entitled under the Constitution or laws of the United States to U.S. citizenship 'at birth' or 'by birth,' including any child born 'in' the United States, the children of United States citizens born abroad, and those born abroad of one citizen parents who has met U.S. residency requirements," the CRS's Jack Maskell wrote. So in short: Cruz is a citizen; Cruz is not naturalized; therefore Cruz is a natural-born citizen, and in any case his mother is a citizen.

 

[Danke]

There are two ways to obtain citizenship- by birth or by Naturalization. If you did not need to be naturalized a citizen after birth to become a US citizen, you were naturally born a citizen.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-and-still-become-president-of-the-us/275469/

Wrong.

 

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

...

 

[Zippyjuan]

Wrong.

Then on this we disagree. The Constitution only mentions two ways. Natural Born or Naturalization.

 

[Danke]

Then on this we disagree.

You're are being obstinate. You don't even know what the definition of "Naturalization" is but keep using it.

 

[Zippyjuan]

I did post a definition in post #62. Law Dictionary Definition: http://thelawdictionary.org/naturalization/

What is Naturalization?

The act of adopting an alien into a nation and clothing him with all of the rights of a natural born citizen. Boyd v. Nebraska 143.U.S.135, 125 Sup. Ct. 375,36 L. Ed. 103.

Business Dictionary: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/naturalization.html

Legal process by which a citizen of one country becomes a citizen of another. It generally requires that the person (1) be staying in the adopted country for a specified minimum period (typically five years) and will make it his or her permanent residence, (2) is of good character and has not been in violation of immigration laws (or has been given amnesty), (3) has a sufficient knowledge of the local language, and (4) has taken an oath of allegiance to the adopted country.

Oxford Dictionary: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/naturalize

(often be/become naturalized) Admit (a foreigner) to the citizenship of a country:
he was born in a foreign country and had never been naturalized
(as adjective naturalized) a naturalized U.S. citizen born in Germany

1.1 [NO OBJECT] (Of a foreigner) be admitted to the citizenship of a country:
the opportunity to naturalize as American

1.2Alter (an adopted foreign word) so that it conforms more closely to the phonology or orthography of the adopting language:
the stoccafisso of Liguria was naturalized in Nice as stocoficada
s

 

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

Naturalization is the process by which U.S. citizenship is granted to a foreign citizen or national after he or she fulfills the requirements established by Congress in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). For more information, see USCIS Policy Manual Citizenship and

If you are a citizen at birth, you don't need to be naturalized.

And yet I agree. It appears Cruz is not a citizen because he was born in Canada, and his father was cuban.

Also, the United States did not recognize "dual citizenship" when the constitution was made (a bit of an oxymoron). That Cruz renounced his canadian citizenship seems to be sufficient proof he isn't a natural born citizen.

 

[Danke]

If you are a citizen at birth, you don't need to be naturalized.

But zippy says there are only two ways...

 

[Zippyjuan]

But zippy says there are only two ways...

What is the third way to gain citizenship?

 

[Danke]

What is the third way to gain citizenship?

https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/abroad/events-and-records/birth.html

 

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews....-has-formally-shed-his-dual-citizenship.html/

Alberta-born Sen. Ted Cruz has given up his Canadian dual citizenship. The renunciation became official on May 14, roughly 9 months after he learned he wasn’t only an American.

In other statements previously, he said his mother had told him that as a child, not that he just learned it

 

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/abroad/events-and-records/birth.html

This isn't a new way, it's under common law as well

 

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

But zippy says there are only two ways...

That's still two ways...

 

[Zippyjuan]

https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/abroad/events-and-records/birth.html

That is to a document you can get- not a separate means of becoming a citizen.

A child born abroad to a U.S. citizen parent or parents may acquire U.S. citizenship at birth if certain statutory requirements are met. The child’s parents should contact the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate to apply for a Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America (CRBA) to document that the child is a U.S. citizen. If the U.S. embassy or consulate determines that the child acquired U.S. citizenship at birth, a consular officer will approve the CRBA application and the Department of State will issue a CRBA, also called a Form FS-240, in the child’s name.

According to U.S. law, a CRBA is proof of U.S. citizenship and may be used to obtain a U.S. passport and register for school, among other purposes.

The child’s parents may choose to apply for a U.S. passport for the child at the same time that they apply for a CRBA. Parents may also choose to apply only for a U.S. passport for the child.

Cruz was born abroad and met the "statutory requirements" but one is not required to get a CRBA. If you want one, you have until age 18 to request one. You can also use a US passport. Or if he chooses:

Certificate of Citizenship issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS)

A person born abroad who acquired U.S. citizenship at birth but who is over the age of 18 (and so not eligible for a CRBA) may wish to apply for a Certificate of Citizenship to document acquisition pursuant to 8 U.S.C. 1452. Visit USCIS.gov for further information.

But again- this document is also not required as proof of citizenship at birth.

 

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

That is to a document you can get- not a separate means of becoming a citizen.



Cruz was born abroad and met the "statutory requirements" but was not required to get a CRBA.

I'm of the opinion that Cruz's father was still a cuban - so he didn't met the natural born definition of father or both parents being citizens in that case. He didn't met later statutory codification of that principle either.

It's not just that Cruz was not born in this country. But his father wasn't a citizen either.

 

[Zippyjuan]

I'm of the opinion that Cruz's father was still a cuban - so he didn't met the natural born definition of father or both parents being citizens in that case. He didn't met later statutory codification of that principle either.

It's not just that Cruz was not born in this country. But his father wasn't a citizen either.

According to law at the time, only one parent needed to be a citizen of a child born outside the country for them to be a citizen at birth- subject to residency requirements of the citizen parent which his mother met. From an earlier post: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1401

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years

 

[SpiritOf1776_J4]

According to law at the time, only one parent needed to be a citizen of a child born outside the country for them to be a citizen at birth- subject to residency requirements of the citizen parent which his mother met. From an earlier post: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1401

But when the constitution was signed, it had to be the father or both parents for your posterity to get your citizenship - same as who traditionally gets your last name, who was head of the household, how inheritance worked, etc. That's how it was defined under the law at the time.

You'd have to pass a constitutional amendment to change it. You can't just pass statues to redefine words to change the constitution. Else it means constitutional amendments are pointless. Pass any law - or even codify it in the bureaucracy - to change it. Amending the constitution is a lot harder.

 

[Zippyjuan]

But when the constitution was signed, it had to be the father or both parents for your posterity to get your citizenship - same as who traditionally gets your last name, who was head of the household, how inheritance worked, etc. That's how it was defined under the law at the time.

You'd have to pass a constitutional amendment to change it. You can't just pass statues to redefine words to change the constitution. Else it means constitutional amendments are pointless. Pass any law - or even codify it in the bureaucracy - to change it. Amending the constitution is a lot harder.

What does the Constitution say and what part would have to be changed by Constitutional Amendment?

This is the only place it is even mentioned:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

It says nothing about both parents or only the father. Now if you want to get rid of the "natural born" requirement- that would require an amendment to the Constitution.