Crimea votes to join Russia, accelerating Ukraine crisis

[Pericles]

It is funny that even though there is absolutely no American troops on the streets of the Ukraine when the Ukrainian parliament voted overwhelming to impeach their president many on here called it a US installed coup. Calling out the hypocrisy on here is really getting fun.

There is no shortage of it.

 

[eduardo89]

I live in Taiwan. The citizens of this country speak Chinese, eat Chinese food, celebrate traditional (not nationalistic) Chinese customs, sing Chinese songs, and are very Taiwanese in their understanding of the politics of mainland China. That doesn't mean they don't prefer by the vast majority to remain Taiwanese and independent of China.

Just because the majority of the Ukrainians speak Russian, eat Russian food, celebrate traditional (not nationalistic) Russian customs, sing Russian songs, and are very Ukrainian in their understanding of the politics of mother Russia, That doesn't mean they don't prefer by the vast majority to remain Ukrainian and independent of Russia.

Well this will be put to the test. Crimeans will vote in 10 days whether they want to remain a part of the Ukraine or secede and become a republic within the Russian Federation.

 

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Well this will be put to the test. Crimeans will vote in 10 days whether they want to remain a part of the Ukraine or secede and become a republic within the Russian Federation.

You say that the American government was imposing it's will upon those who favored a new system of government (which I don't deny), but what makes you believe that the Russian troops in Crimea aren't imposing their will on the citizens of Crimea?

 

[Demigod]

Crimea is 75% Russian... majority rules. Question will be, what about all the other Oblasts within the Ukraine borders? Obvious this country is divided/segregated East/West.

Eastern Ukraine is out of reach for Russia I think that even they know it at the moment so they decided to double down on Crimea.Russia controlling Odessa and having a direct border with Romania would be unacceptable to the EU and the USA.From there they could turn the entire Balkans to their side in a matter of years with cheap energy and opening up the Russian market especially for agriculture ( something the EU regulates heavily ).Not that anyone likes the Russians but everyone hates the west,all they ever got was the grants and loans everyone looked at Greece and saw the EU basically trowing money at them and wanted some as well but now there is no more money.

 

[klamath]

Well this will be put to the test. Crimeans will vote in 10 days whether they want to remain a part of the Ukraine or secede and become a republic within the Russian Federation.

It will be a test but maybe not what they prefer. Russian troops roaming the streets would make one that is pro Ukraine think twice about putting their name on a list in a voting booth. They are going to be quite aware what Putin did in Chechnya.
I have seen it posted many time that the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan are puppet US dictated elected government around here...

 

[eduardo89]

You say that the American government was imposing it's will upon those who favored a new system of government (which I don't deny), but what makes you believe that the Russian troops in Crimea aren't imposing their will on the citizens of Crimea?

Crimea's government asked Russia to take over. Crimea's majority is Russian. Not a single shot has been fired since Russian troops took over Crimea.

Does that sound like a people who are having a will imposed on them?

 

[Constitutional Paulicy]

It will be a test but maybe not what they prefer. Russian troops roaming the streets would make one that is pro Ukraine think twice about putting their name on a list in a voting booth. They are going to be quite aware what Putin did in Chechnya.
I have seen it posted many time that the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan are puppet US dictated elected government around here...

I think we are on the same page with this one.

 

[Wadesc]

Russian interventionism, strongarm diplomacy, ultranationalism and propaganda > Western interventionism, strongarm diplomacy, ultranationalism and propaganda

Ok, got it.

Binary logic is really in force here lately

 

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Russian interventionism, strongarm diplomacy, ultranationalism and propaganda > Western interventionism, strongarm diplomacy, ultranationalism and propaganda

Ok, got it.

Binary logic is really in force here lately

You would think it wouldn't be that hard to grasp.

 

[singe22]

You say that the American government was imposing it's will upon those who favored a new system of government (which I don't deny), but what makes you believe that the Russian troops in Crimea aren't imposing their will on the citizens of Crimea?

And some of you are acting like there is some human genocide going on over there in Ukraine. All we can do is sit back and assume about who is pulling what strings behind the scenes. The safest bet for the sanity of the United States is to mind our own business. Because in the end its going to be American Tax payers, American soldiers, and innocent civilians paying the price.

 

[pcosmar]

Russian troops roaming the streets

Russian troops roaming the streets

Russian troops
Russian troops
Russian troops

Really?
Russian troops are guarding Russian Bases.

11000 Crimean defense personnel are roaming Crimea.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/05/us-ukraine-crisis-lavrov-spain-idUSBREA240NF20140305

(Reuters) - Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday that Moscow cannot order pro-Russian armed groups in Ukraine's Crimea region to return to their bases because they are "self-defense" forces, not Russian soldiers.

http://indrus.in/news/2014/03/05/la...ers_to_crimean_self-defense_forces_33535.html

http://nypost.com/2014/03/06/11000-pro-russian-troops-in-control-of-crimea/

Speaking at Crimea’s government meeting late Wednesday, Aksyonov said the strategic peninsula is fully under the control of riot police and security forces joined by about 11,000 “self-defense” troops. All or most of these troops are believed to be Russian, even though the Russian president and defense minister have denied sending in the military other than those stationed at the home port of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet.

BTW,,
The majority of the population of Crimea is Russian. and are Pro-Russian,, and are Russian Speaking.
It would not be surprising at all if they had Russian uniforms and equipment (military Surplus)

 

[Constitutional Paulicy]

And some of you are acting like there is some human genocide going on over there in Ukraine. All we can do is sit back and assume about who is pulling what strings behind the scenes. The safest bet for the sanity of the United States is to mind our own business. Because in the end its going to be American Tax payers, American soldiers, and innocent civilians paying the price.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Mini-Me]

This is going to be problematic:
Whether the vote was legitimate or not, Russia will insist it was, and they will insist it legitimizes their occupation. Meanwhile, the US and perhaps the EU will insist it was a farce...and nobody is likely to budge an inch, because too many economic interests are at stake, and practically nobody values free markets and free trade besides us. I now suspect that instead of directly facing down Russia in the Ukraine or Crimea, the US is probably going to engage in some tit-for-tat escalation somewhere else.

 

[klamath]

And some of you are acting like there is some human genocide going on over there in Ukraine. All we can do is sit back and assume about who is pulling what strings behind the scenes. The safest bet for the sanity of the United States is to mind our own business. Because in the end its going to be American Tax payers, American soldiers, and innocent civilians paying the price.

Once people posting on here crossed over from "US stay out" to defending the Russian invasion, noninterventism becomes a code word for Russian nationalism. That is what is being called out.

 

[Wadesc]

I concur Klamath

This forum and many like it have become bizarro-world

 

[acptulsa]

The blather is thick, the factual reporting is thin.

The only way I can see for the citizens of this republic to make an intelligent decision on this issue is this: McCain is for intervention, so we would almost certainly be wiser to oppose it.

 

[pcosmar]

This is going to be problematic:
Whether the vote was legitimate or not, Russia will insist it is, and they will insist it legitimizes their occupation. Meanwhile, the US and perhaps the EU will insist it was a farce...and nobody is likely to budge an inch. I now suspect that instead of attacking Russia, the US is probably going to engage in some tit-for-tat escalation somewhere else.

Certainly will be every bit as legitimate as as the US/EU instigated Coup that overthrew the legitimate elected government.

A Coup that Russia views as illegitimate.

 

[Wadesc]

So its one illegitimate coup vs. another.

Sounds like were up for a big heaping helping of MIGHT MAKES RIGHT

 

[klamath]

The blather is thick, the factual reporting is thin.

The only way I can see for the citizens of this republic to make an intelligent decision on this issue is this: McCain is for intervention, so we would almost certainly be wiser to oppose it.

I don't think you can find one person on here supporting US intervention but there are a lot supporting Russian intervention.

ETA; it is making a joke out of noninterventism.

 

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Sounds like some sanity has arrived.