Crimea votes to join Russia, accelerating Ukraine crisis

[pcosmar]

I didn't say you did. I am just pointing out why I am calling others to task. If you haven't seen the out and out defense of the Russian invasion you are not on the same forum.

Nope,, I am denying that there is any Russian invasion at all.

Russia was invited, Russia Has bases and interests and has every right to protect them from the Rogue and Openly Anti- Russian usupers.
Not a shot has been fired.

It is not an invasion despite what the lying sacks of shit in our government and media say.

 

[Pericles]

If the Russian are wanted there by the people of Crimea, which it sure seems they are, it's not an intervention.

Careful, that thinking could lead to Kurds inviting the US into northern Iraq, and Iran, and Turkey.

 

[Madison320]

Even if for some crazy reason Putin is trying to reclaim the old Soviet Union, so what? Let them collapse under their own weight like they did before in 1991.

 

[Constitutional Paulicy]

If the Russian are wanted there by the people of Crimea

I think this might be the million dollar question. However, I'm not so sure they are. Like Mini-Me said...

This is going to be problematic:
Whether the vote was legitimate or not, Russia will insist it was, and they will insist it legitimizes their occupation. Meanwhile, the US and perhaps the EU will insist it was a farce

 

[pcosmar]

Careful, that thinking could lead to Kurds inviting the US into northern Iraq, and Iran, and Turkey.

Perhaps if the Kurds were Americans and a majority.. or if pigs had wings.

otherwise it is in no way similar.

Russian people inviting Russia's protection from an Anti Russian violent takeover is different.

Tough when the guys you love to hate/have been taught to hate are actually the "good guys".

 

[juleswin]

Are they allowed to invite an ally? Especially since they are a small Provence against a larger EU backed adversary

Or do the have to have the Nazi fascism forced on them?

This is the problem with the word intervention. It is so broad of a word that anything not done alone is intervention. I bet it was intervention when Korean merchants invited the friends to help defend against rioters. I bet the rioters just like Klamath did not appreciate anyone getting in the way of the plunderers but those merchants have the right to invite their friends and as long as their friends stay with the bounds of just protecting the area of their host, they are justified in their action.

I know the troll would ask, but then some people in Iraq asked for us to intervene, so the US army was also invited to Iraq. But those people do not have an self governing area like they have in Crimea where the people have their own constitutions, parliament etc and unlike in Iraq, the people and the govt asked for this intervention. This is not something where a small segment (in a larger population who were on the street demonstration against an intervention) ask for intervention

 

[juleswin]

Even if for some crazy reason Putin is trying to reclaim the old Soviet Union, so what? Let them collapse under their own weight like they did before in 1991.

If the Iraqi war was restricted to just the Kurdish region, I do not think there would have been a war. They wont need to bomb Baghdad and the oil fields in the other parts of the country wont have to be taken over. It would be one of those situations where I wouldn't support it but at the same time, it wouldn't keep me up at night.

 

[singe22]

Ya i wanted to say something on the lines of here we have our government ready to aid billions and possibly troops to a political movement controlling a foreign government. Minority/Majority i don't know. But yet in this country 3rd parties or just minority thinking gets undermined and unfunded. Hell you can't even get on tv.

 

[angelatc]

I think the spin on this is that the vote came when their was armed Russian soldiers in the room when it happened. Calling it coercion.

Sort of like how Hawaii voted to become a state, then.

 

[puppetmaster]

There is no evidence of US covert OPs.

that is because they are covert.....duh....

otherwise they would be on CNN right?

you cant prove there was not so it is all speculation

 

[Mini-Me]

that is because they are covert.....duh....

otherwise they would be on CNN right?

you cant prove there was not so it is all speculation

Nuland and Pyatt aren't evidence of US involvement at all, and the CIA is just a country club. I've learned from Bill O'Reilly that it's ridiculous to think they ever get anything accomplished anywhere around the world...which is why even the "results-oriented" conservative types support an infinite budget for them to sit around and do nothing. It all makes perfect sense.

 

[69360]

Careful, that thinking could lead to Kurds inviting the US into northern Iraq, and Iran, and Turkey.

Not the same at all. The Kurds have no common historical ties to the US. No shared ethnicity, language etc. None of those areas were ever a part of the US.

 

[69360]

I think this might be the million dollar question. However, I'm not so sure they are. Like Mini-Me said...

The US and the EU can call it whatever they want. There isn't a thing they can do about it besides open war with Russia, which isn't happening. There will be some faux outrage and this will quietly fade from the news as Crimea becomes a part of Russia without a shot fired.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

Can't wait for the Ukrainian; Tax increases, Inflation, Bank Holiday, with ensured; identity, economic, and political enslavement by a bunch of unelected EU/NATO aristocrats. Add the US militarization/Security/Spy USAID/NGO garbage and we add another notch in the mark of the beast's New World Bankster-Economic Order.

 

[Pericles]

Not the same at all. The Kurds have no common historical ties to the US. No shared ethnicity, language etc. None of those areas were ever a part of the US.

OK, then Texas and Mexico.

 

[Keith and stuff]

Accelerates? More like ends. If the will of the people is to join Russia then so be it. The US or the EU are not going to war with Russia over Crimea. There will be some big talk and then this will quietly slip out of the news.

How would you vote if a gun was to your head? That seems to be the only important question.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

The best solution would probably be a two-step thing; a modified two state solution.

Divide the Ukraine along that yellow and red map, both new nations (neither named "Ukraine") gaining recognition around the world as independent sovereign nations. Upon recognition, both enter into a very loose trade and peace confederacy named "Ukraine."

Now you have one sovereign nation in the East besties with Russia, another sovereign nation in the west besties with Europe; and still one Ukraine that the citizens can live and work in without restriction of national origin.

I bring that up, because we have to remember that votes are shaped by the options on the ballot and how they are asked, just like any poll. I guarantee you that the ^ above option was not a choice in the voting booth. If it were, and it were a fair vote, I wonder if the people of the Ukraine would go for such a plan? More likely though they had to vote on the following order:

o - I want to be free, safe and protected by Mother Russia
o - I want to help the Eurotraitors crush my family culture

So it could have been an extremely fair and uncoerced vote, and still end up heavily manipulated. Never forget F-U Frank Luntz.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I think the spin on this is that the vote came when their was armed Russian soldiers in the room when it happened. Calling it coercion.

Well, after the Civil War, the North came and amended the NC State Constitution to add a loyalty clause the the federal government, and then pointed bayonets at legislators chests until they voted for it.

Hawaii was almost but not quite as bad in that respect, but all of the other stuff surrounding that vote was actually even worse. Point of fact we used legal and parliamentary procedure to steal Hawaii's sovereignty right out from under them and without their accord. If America were righteous and full of integrity, Hawaii may or may not be a State today, but it certainly would not have become a state THEN, and would likely have remained an independent sovereign kingdom to this day.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I prefer what happens in Crimea to be decided by the people there.

But as a general principle, I am opposed to big decisions being made by plurality or bare majority. The oppression of minorities under the guise of "democracy" is a farce.

 

[idiom]

Russian interventionism, strongarm diplomacy, ultranationalism and propaganda > Western interventionism, strongarm diplomacy, ultranationalism and propaganda

Ok, got it.

Binary logic is really in force here lately

People are just tired of the hegemony. A multi-polar market in who gets to be your hegemon will be a good thing for patron countries.

Eventually the US will have to start playing nicely with others for them to have willing client states.