Convert my father to the Revolution!

[Pauls' Revere]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iwojima#Reunion_of_Honor

On the 40th anniversary of the battle of Iwo Jima, American and Japanese veterans met again on these same sands, this time in peace and friendship. We commemorate our comrades, living and dead, who fought here with bravery and honor, and we pray together that our sacrifices on Iwo Jima will always be remembered and never be repeated.


26,000 souls remind me of what a waste war is and how national relations and foreign policy should be like.

 

[f4runner]

Hi Millercards,

I have an idea that may work for you. Since your dad is a Christian man I assume he considers the Bible the ultimate authority for living his life and his worldview. When he comes across new ideas or information that may contradict a Christian worldview doesn't he go to the Bible to see if the new ideas fit in with Scripture?

By the same token as Americans we have our own documents that we can judge ideas by seeing what the U.S. Constitution says. I think the Declaration of Independence must be used as well for context. I think you could print out or pull up on the web both the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence and do a study with your dad. Have your dad list out on paper all the things that he disagrees with Ron Paul and see if it is in line with the U.S. Constitution.

Declaration of Independence
U.S. Constitution

Good luck to you!

 

[Xhin]

I did successfully convince a "we need to help other countries" type that non-interventionism was the best policy. Here are a couple points I made:

1. When we give countries aid, we're not giving it to the people of that country, but rather to the governments which are very likely responsible for the country being in as bad of shape as it is.

2. I'd say that most of the aid we give to other governments is not based on aiding the people and promoting democracy, but on protecting our own worldwide interests. In that we're actually doing harm to those countries.

So not only is our interventionist policy hurting our own economy and military, but it's also hurting the countries your father thinks we're helping. More than likely your father thinks that Iraq may have been done for the wrong reasons (falsely accusing them of WMD's), but it ultimately served a good purpose -- bringing democracy to Iraq. Remind him that the reason Saddam Hussein stayed in power was because we supported him -- at the time he was the enemy of one of our enemies. Consider also that we were allied with Russia during world war II. This is the same Soviet Russia that we had a 50-year conflict with until communism fell.

Probably the best way to convince your dad is to pander to his Interventionist beliefs, and show how misguided American foreign policy is to achieving those aims. A true non-interventionist policy would give international aid foundations more pull in actually helping countries, and could theoretically lead to a federal interventionist policy that's less selfish. Obviously you don't agree with interventionism in the first place, but it will be easier to win over your dad if you show how our current interventionist policy is doing far more harm than good even with regards to his own beliefs that America should police the world.

Emphasize Iran for him, since it's current. Show how only two nuclear missiles have actually been used in the history of the world (by us, no less), but how having nuclear capabilities gives countries worldwide political power, which bolsters their economy and ultimately their people. Then show how we go out of our way to assassinate nuclear scientists in Iran and may consider war, which will ruin that country's economy and make its people hate us. Get your dad to question the reason we want intervention in Iran without telling him your own personal opinion, and he should come to the opinion on his own that our foreign policy is not the "policemen of the world interventionism" he thinks it is, but rather more like a mob boss that pays for his opposition and competition to be eliminated.

 

[Xhin]

Also, don't adopt the strategy of "Oh well Ron Paul is in line with the constitution", unless your dad is a strict constitutionalist. Certain issues with Ron Paul can be disagreed with (such as abortion or gay marriage or even the drug war) without making someone wanting to choose a different candidate. However, it's clear that foreign policy is important to your dad, and that is a major current issue with America right now so you can't gloss over it as though it were unimportant. Under no circumstances should you marginalize that issue in the name of, say, Ron Paul having a solid economic strategy.

 

[Travlyr]

I read this and it almost worried me.

The average person will read that and might be turned off due to it leaning towards conspiracy theories. Sure this will interest some, but some will just label you kooky, and then your stuck trying to re-prove your sanity.

I don't think this one would work with my Dad.... there would need to be a lot more facts to back it all up.

And even then... I don't think it'd get through to him.

He needs cold hard facts slapped in his face from someone he trusts over and over.

If he is truly interested in learning about Ron Paul's foreign policy, then he should read, "A Foreign Policy of Freedom" by Ron Paul

Ron has consistently stood for the rights of the people and against government oppression. Why have the American people been forced to pay for Communist regimes? That's just the tip of the iceberg.

H.R. 3408
Ron Paul's - "A Foreign Policy of Freedom"
In 1979, our federal government granted the Communist regime in Poland an additional $500 million in loans and loan guarantees.
[...]
Why does our government continue to subsidize the Communists in Poland? Whose side is our government on, the Polish Communists or the Polish workers?

I believe that we should have a consistent foreign policy of nonintervention in the affairs of other countries. We should certainly not be subsidizing a dictatorial regime that is not supported by its own people. It is outrageous that taxes paid by the American people - people who sympathize with the Polish workers, not the Communist government have been and are being used to prop up that government. I have introduced legislation that would end such foreign subsidies, H.R. 3408, and I intend to push for its passage through Congress. Our irrational policy of subsidizing those who hate freedom must be stopped.

 

[cdc482]

Uhhh...other countries don't want our help...

 

[bunklocoempire]

My father is the man I most respect in my life. He's a solid christian who takes care of his own with all of his heart. He always tries to do the right thing.

He's a Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, and Fox News guy. He's no robot as he is really smart, but I can tell that he gets a lot of his back-up "facts" from the shows he watches and listens to.

I'm close though. I've opened his mind on marijuana over a few years span because I'm a user and I'm out-spoken about the drug war and the silliness of cannibus' prohibition. Paul's drug policy was one of his two issues with Ron Paul, but I've got him to let up on that one.

His other issue with Ron Paul is his foreign policy. I've exhausted my somewhat-small (but growing daily) knowledge, and cannot gain too much ground. I think I've made him think about his position a few times, but as much as he's smart, he's also stubborn (usually rightly so).

I'm hoping with this thread, I can continue the conversation with my Dad that happens once every day or every other day, with some help from some of the more advanced Paulites.

Thanks to any... here's what I'm dealing with now:

1. I've let him know about the costs, about borrowing from China to basically fund both sides of a fight that we later intervene in, about how other countries don't like our meddling and it's why they don't like us. I'm not the greatest with all of this, but I argue pretty well.

He always counters that groups in the Middle East have Always hated us, and that they would try attacking us no matter what.

Any thoughts?

2. He thinks we are doing a good job as World Police and that we are needed. He says we as a country needed help when we were first founded. He says there are other countries that need the same. He believes we need to have a strong force worldwide for protection.

Keep in mind his knowledge and stubborness.

Thanks again to any that help, and I'll keep this thread going to report progress.

Bold is mine. My father listened to all those bums too. Read this with your dad. It's what tipped my father to the cause.

TODAY'S CHRISTIANS: NO HOPE IN GOD'S WAY
http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin455.htm

Keep trying! Good luck!

 

[mosquitobite]

Bold is mine. My father listened to all those bums too. Read this with your dad. It's what tipped my father to the cause.

TODAY'S CHRISTIANS: NO HOPE IN GOD'S WAY
http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin455.htm

Keep trying! Good luck!

Another good book written by a Christian, libertarian-leaning, economics professor:
Turn Neither to the Right Nor to the Left (Christian Life and Public Policy Series)

 

[Xenophage]

Smoking weed automatically diminished any arguments you make for Ron Paul. I bet if you quit smoking weed your dad would be quite happy and more open to what you have to say.

Ron Paul does not smoke weed

 

[dagnybell]

I struggled converting my Dad too. His biggest hangup was RP's foreign policy. We have had many, many long, sometimes heated conversations about it, but these were the two arguments that I think really worked the best:

1) Since he agrees with most everything RP says about economic issues, I asked him what does he think presents the greatest direct threat to our country right now - the economy/debt or the terrorists? He agreed with me that the economy/debt is a greater threat. So, I then pointed out that I think it makes the most sense to vote for the guy that you agree with on the most important issue - which he had just agreed was the economy/debt.

2) My Dad is a big military/history buff. He has an amazing mind for facts and figures and is always quoting figures about what this US plane can do and how many warheads that US sub carries, etc. He talks all the time about America's military capabilities and how no one in the world can touch us because they cannot even come close to our capabilities. So, I used this to convince him that RP is not unreasonable in wanting at lease SOME real cutbacks in military spending. I also spoke to him in great detail about the capabilities of our nuclear subs (which RP strongly believes in). According to the two links below, just 14 US Ohio class subs have more nuclear capabilities than any other COUNTRY in the world except for Russia. So, with just those 14 subs, we'd still be one of the most powerful forces in the world. I convinced him with this information that we really don't need 900 bases in 130 countries around the world. This really sunk in for him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_class_submarine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

 

[Eric21ND]

 

[Working Poor]

I've tried to explain to him about the MSM, but I can't get him to go to YouTube to show him the OBVIOUSNESS.

We're going over there Sunday for dinner, perhaps I'll bust out the Laptop and navigate to Youtube.

I think family is really hard to convert. It kills me that my son is for Obama.

My family hates to admit that I might be right. Lol

Don't over saturate your dad give him room to form some questions to ask you. He knows you want RP to win. Chances are your dad will run into someone he knows that might say something about Ron Paul that will put some truth on him.

I don't know why so many Christians think the USA has the right to reign down on so many countries but I do know we need to give our friends and loved ones some wiggle room after we have presented our case.

 

[nomark]

My father is the man I most respect in my life. He's a solid christian who takes care of his own with all of his heart. He always tries to do the right thing.
Thanks again to any that help, and I'll keep this thread going to report progress.

Try this:

The reason I support Ron Paul is that he does not try to inject his personal intellect to solve the problems we face. He is guided by the 200+ years history of success called The Constitution of the United States as written by our founding fathers. As they say, "if it's not broken, don't fix it." It's not that I think Ron Paul is intellectually superior to Gingrich, Obama or anyone else. The key to Ron Paul for me is that he is a humble man who looks to the ultimate minds for how he makes decisions: The Constitution, and no one modern man can hope to have the combined genius of the 40+ men who wrote and signed the Constitution.

If you look very carefully at the true history of the foundation of this country and the people who came together to make it happen, you will be amazed at the level of understanding, wisdom and genius gathered together at the time. It was a time when the greatest minds came together and created a system where people can rule their own lives and they wrote it all down for us in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. And that's just what Ron Paul does. He does not try to inject himself to solve a problem but instead relies on the collective brillance of our founding fathers. And that's why I support him.

Put another way, Dr. Paul has humility and adherence to the Constitution. After the egos of Bush, Clinton, Bush, and now Obama, what we need is a humble man who is guided by the founding principles to restore our freedom and prosperity.

 

[nomark]

My father is the man I most respect in my life. He's a solid christian who takes care of his own with all of his heart. He always tries to do the right thing.
Thanks to any... here's what I'm dealing with now:

He always counters that groups in the Middle East have Always hated us, and that they would try attacking us no matter what.

He thinks we are doing a good job as World Police and that we are needed. He says we as a country needed help when we were first founded. He says there are other countries that need the same. He believes we need to have a strong force worldwide for protection.

Keep in mind his knowledge and stubborness.

Thanks again to any that help, and I'll keep this thread going to report progress.

Sorry, I should have read all your post.

Okay, "the middle east..." He is right. On "policing the world" he is wrong, but my response to him would be the same: The middle east has always been a problem. But answer me this: how are we going to win a war against them and police the world if we are $16 trillion in debt and have to borrow .43 of every dollar we spend? You can't fight a war and be the policemen of the world on a credit card. We need to pull back, regroup, make our nation much, much stronger economically, then take on the nuts. What we have had the last 20 years is people putting the cart before the horse, at the expense of the horse! We need the horse (economy) to be strong and well feed to pull this cart (American exceptionalism, empire building, etc... whatever you want to call it that he would identify with.)

Personally I do not believe we should be policing the world. Here is what I really believe. I believe you lead by example. We created a system here were we are the most prosperous people on the planet, and everyone wants to be us, but are too lazy to do the work, so instead they want to kill us.

So we have to fight two fronts: One economically, and we win that by being the strongest economic power. And two, militarily to hold back the barbarians at the gate. But both require sound fiscal policy, and Ron Paul is the guy who has been talking about the real issue and been predicting the fall of the dollar for 30 years and all of our economic woes. He's the guy who can put America back to work, pay down the debt, kill the deficit and bring our troops home from nations that should be paying for their own defense.

Have him watch this Stephen Moore clip. It's very powerful
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/1398360552001/

 

[millercards]

I talked to my Dad a couple of hours ago for a little while.

I basically spit out about 20 one-liners from 20 different arguments.

Usually he sees where I'm going with the first sentence out of my mouth, so I overloaded him.

I have to say, when I was done, he was speechless for about 30 seconds, and then he brought up college basketball.

I'll let this soak in and we'll battle some more... it might have to wait until Sunday.

Thanks again... without looking back and seeing the name of the poster.... the last two posts were pretty good, thanks.

I have also read the entire thread, and there are a ton of great points, thanks for all of them.

Update coming no later than Sunday afternoon.

 

[eR3alist]

Have him watch the footage from the SC debate last time when Guiliani got eviserated by Paul while the ignorant crowd boo'd the truth.

 

[Carson]

 

[Carson]

 

[maxoutco]

Hey,

I spent 3 months of sending videos to my dad to try and convert him. One day he finally responds to an email of mine and says he's on board. I asked him what video/article sold him.

He told me he actually had enough and just went to The Issues section on Paul's website. After reading for a while he was sold.



Maybe we can find some similarity here.

 

[Jeffster]

I don't necessarily agree with all of Ron's foreign policy but I still support him because he's the only candidate who actually is willing to significantly CUT federal spending across the board, and the only pro-life candidate willing to veto the HHS bills that fund Planned Parenthood. Those two issues alone are the main source for my support of Paul. That and his consistency on all the issues leads me to believe he would not be a "finger in the wind" type of president. I have no idea what Mitt Romney would do because he never seems to have stood for anything except maybe making himself money. (Not that there's anything wrong with making money.)

But, I'd tell him about people like me that support Paul even without completely agreeing with his foreign policy. His DOMESTIC policy is far superior to the other candidates in my view.