Controlled Opposition - A must read for everyone in the liberty movement

[Conservative Christian]

See, I really liked Interested Participant's arguments before you came along and destroyed them.

Thanks a lot...

It's too bad really. It all sounded so mysterious and conspiratorial...as if there was another red pill to be taken...after the first.

Oh well. I guess this is what happens when extravagant theories are asked to be proven. Sometimes the evidence just isn't there.

Anybody who says facts are irrelevant trivialities probably shouldn't be trusted anyways...

InterestedParticipant's official motto is "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit".

And IP IS a master bullshit artist!

Unfortunately, he can't BS all the people all the time. And he can't BS me AT ALL!

 

[Conservative Christian]

Anybody who says facts are irrelevant trivialities probably shouldn't be trusted anyways...

No doubt, bro!

 

[Conservative Christian]

I'm here to get people to start relying on the mind that God gave them, and to stop relying on organizations who serve them up their view of the world and their opinions.

No, you're here to create paranoia and isolate patriots, so they'll be ineffective in combating the New World Order.

There's ALWAYS strength in numbers, especially in well-organized groups like the John Birch Society.

And the REAL controlled opposition in the late 50's and 60's was CIA asset William F. Buckley and his Trotskyite pals at the CIA-funded National Review, who savagely attacked the JBS.

The New World Order knew that the fledgling John Birch Society was the first real organized opposition that they had ever faced, thus they sought to destroy it by setting up Buckley and other pseudoconservatives at the National Review.

Buckley and his Trotskyite pals created a phony conservatism, in order to counteract the very real conservatism and aggressive anti-New World Order agenda of the JBS.

Sorry slick, but your whole propaganda effort in this thread = MONUMENTAL FAIL!


.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

No, you're here to create paranoia and isolate patriots, so they'll be ineffective in combating the New World Order.

There's ALWAYS strength in numbers, especially in well-organized groups like the John Birch Society.

And the REAL controlled opposition in the late 50's and 60's was CIA asset William F. Buckley and his Trotskyite pals at the CIA-funded National Review, who savagely attacked the JBS.

The New World Order knew that the fledgling John Birch Society was the first real organized opposition that they had ever faced, thus they sought to destroy it by setting up Buckley and other pseudoconservatives at the National Review.

Buckley and his Trotskyite pals created a phony conservatism, in order to counteract the very real conservatism and aggressive anti-New World Order agenda of the JBS.

Sorry slick, but your whole propaganda effort in this thread = MONUMENTAL FAIL! .

Suggesting that people begin to think on their own and stop listening to controlled actors is bull shit propaganda that should be dismissed... is this your proposition?

Further, people should bundle into groups where techniques developed by many social scientists can be used to control them, is that another one of your favorites? What you are advocating is that people marginalize their own individuality in favor of group think, which is counter the Libertarian philosophy.

Tavistock Method Basic Premise
http://209.85.135.132/search?q=cach.../pdf/TavistockModel.pdf+tavistock+method&cd=1

An aggregate cluster of persons becomes a group when interaction between members occurs,
when members' awareness of their common relationship develops and when a common group task
emerges. Various forces can operate to produce a group: an external threat, collective threat, and
collective regressive behavior, or attempts to satisfy needs for security, safety, dependency, and
affection. A more deliberate force is the conscious choice of individuals to band together to perform
a task.
When the aggregate becomes a group, the group behaves as a system-an entity that in some
respects is greater than the sum of its parts - and the primary task of the group is survival.
Although this task is frequently disguised, group survival becomes a latent motivating force for all
group members. It provides the framework for the exploration of group behavior.
Appreciating the group-as-a-whole requires a perceptual shift on the part of the observer a blurring
of individual separateness, and a readiness to see the collective interactions generated by group
members. In Gestalt terms, the group is focal and individuals are background

Theory

Groups, like dreams, have a manifest, overt aspect and a latent, covert aspect. The manifest
aspect is the work group, a level of functioning at which members consciously pursue agreed-on
objectives and work toward the completion of a task. Although group members have hidden
agendas, they rely on internal and external controls to prevent these hidden agendas from
emerging and interfering with the announced group task. They pool their irrational thinking and
combine their skills to solve problems and make decisions.
In truth, groups do not always function rationally or productively, nor are individual members
necessarily aware of the internal and external controls they rely on to maintain the boundary
between their announced intentions and their hidden agendas. The combined hidden agendas of
group members constitute the latent aspect of group life, the basic assumption group. In contrast
to the rational group, this group consists of unconscious wishes, fears, defenses, fantasies,
impulses, and projections. The work group is focused away from itself, toward the task; the basic
assumption group is focused inward, toward fantasy and a more primitive reality. Tension always
exists between the two; it is balanced by various behavioral and psychological structures, including
individual defense systems, ground rules, expectations, and group norms.

You advocate that people walk into and stay in a trap, a trap where ample evidence exists to show was covertly setup by the leaders of the so-called NWO.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

And the REAL controlled opposition in the late 50's and 60's was CIA asset William F. Buckley and his Trotskyite pals at the CIA-funded National Review, who savagely attacked the JBS..

I agree with you on this point. But what your not seeing is that both sides are/were controlled. That's the part that you're missing.

These guys always control all sides of an argument... and this is the most important lesson to learn from this thread.


That's what controlled opposition is all about. It's not just one side that is controlled, but all sides of the dialectic. Otherwise, you lose control of the dialectic. So for every vector there must be a counter-vector. That's why Griffin held on to Norman Dodd's interview for 20 years, for it would have exposed Communism as a fraud, and therefore destroyed the controlled opposition as well.

It's a game, and the sooner people see ALL of the game the better positioned they are to protect themselves. You advocate the same game, which has gotten the public nowhere, becuase it is all controlled.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Interested Participant, I agree with a lot of what you have said, however, with regard to the JBS, you seem to have fallen for the same thing that you are protesting about. The JBS has a lot of enemies and no wonder. You yourself have fallen for a number of smear attacks on them. You have been shown the error of your ways by more than just one poster here. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2203574&postcount=10

You know, I don't know about anyone else here, but when someone doesn't have the guts to stand up and admit when they are wrong, it makes me wonder about their intentions.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

Interested Participant, I agree with a lot of what you have said, however, with regard to the JBS, you seem to have fallen for the same thing that you are protesting about. The JBS has a lot of enemies and no wonder. You yourself have fallen for a number of smear attacks on them. You have been shown the error of your ways by more than just one poster here. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2203574&postcount=10

You know, I don't know about anyone else here, but when someone doesn't have the guts to stand up and admit when they are wrong, it makes me wonder about their intentions.

You must break out of your controlled paradigm, it is for your own survival. Attempting to shut this topic down with your comment, especially as a moderator, is to shut down open discussion and is quite a negative force on everyone here, and quite frankly, makes me wonder what the agenda of this forum really is.

How anyone here can argue with a push toward independent thought development, outside of groups, groups that I argue are controlled, is beyond logic .

 

[InterestedParticipant]

This is from a conversation between James Dyer & Eustace Mullins, author of Secrets of the Federal Reserve (1952)....
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/07/268064.shtml

JBS was setup by Nelson Rockefeller. I knew two people at the original meeting. They needed a right-wing, anti-communist organization. NR decided that Robert Welch was the man to run JBS, so he arranged for the sale of Welch's Candy Co. (where Robert Welch had been working for his brother John) to Nabisco (which was a Rockefeller controlled company) at a highly inflated price and Welch was given an income to run the John Birch Society.

Revilo Oliver was a good friend of mine and he was one of the founders of the JBS. He and I were sitting in his living room once and he told me that he knew Nelson Rockefeller ran the Birch Society because he had a revolving fund at Chase Manhattan Bank, and whenever Welch needed a quarter million dollars to meet the payroll, he'd go to CMB and withdraw the money.

Oliver told you that?

Himself. One of the founders, can't ask for better authority than that.

Let's touch on the Council on Foreign Relations...

The CFR was a phoney institution, they've never had any power at all. They take their orders from the Royal Institute of International Affairs in London, the Rothschilds. This bugaboo about the CFR has always made me laugh. Back in the 50's everybody thought the United States was ruled by this corrupt, sinister organization. In fact the CFR was a bunch of fatcats that got together in New York City, had dinner in luxurious hotels...they were all wealthy people, CEOS of banks and insurance companies and so forth...

So their place in the scheme of things is...?

They're strictly a diversion. They had no power, and their policies were always written by the RIIA in London at Chatham House. I can't find an instance where the CFR has inaugurated a policy of any kind. Even today, people read books from the 50's about the sinister CFR and how sinister they are, like a KGB ruling the US...I always thought it a joke.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

That was a direct quote from Eustace Mullins, author of Secrets of the Federal Reserve (1952), who said he was told this information directly from Revilo Oliver, one of the JBS founders, while at Oliver's home for dinner.

A little searching finds the info quoted below, which support Mullins and Oliver.

In the article My 'One-Minute' Membership In the John Birch Society, the following information, concerning the buyout of the Welch Candy Company is related:

".... In the August 1965 edition of Capsule News, Morris Bealle (now deceased) laid it bare. He wrote:

Robert Welch (and his brother Jimmy) received a tremendous payoff from the House of Rockefeller two years ago, for organizing the John Birch Society and sitting on the communist lid for the past seven years. The total pay-off was $10,800,000, less the value of the family candy company, which is reputed to be maybe $100,000 or $200,000.

On October 1, 1963, Rockefeller's National Biscuit Company announced the "purchase" of the James O. Welch Candy Company of Cambridge, Massachusetts.

In Moody's Manual of Industrials, and in Standard-and-Poor's Business Index, NBC gave the alleged purchase price as "200,000 shares of National Biscuit common stock." According to The Wall Street Journal for Oct. 1, 1963, NBC common stock was selling for $54 a share on the New York Stock Exchange.

Today it is selling for $58. Thus the Welch brothers were given $10,800,000 just like that."

Candy people say the whole family business, with plants and five sales offices, [was] hardly worth $200,000. Welch will tell those dopes who will believe him mat National Biscuit is not a Rockefeller concern.

Again, Moody's Manual will trip him up. It lists as two of the directors the names of Roy E. Tomlinson and Don. G. Mitchell. [Both are] members of the Council on Foreign Relations. Further, they are a pair of Rockefeller's "professional directors." Tomlinson is also a director of their Prudential Life and American Sugar Refining.

It was American Sugar that was directly concerned with the financing and embargoing into the hands of Communist Russia of Cuba in 1959. They made the deal with Castro, which ended freedom on the island of Cuba and made possible those Havana missile bases designed to wipe out American eastern seaboard cities.

It also appears that the Rock Mob financed and promoted the organization of the John Birch Society. How else could it have gotten millions of dollars worth of newspaper publicity by the phony "attacks" on Welch that came with dramatic suddenness.

And, for the record, in more recent years, famed populist historian Eustace Mullins, author of The Federal Reserve Conspiracy, The World Order and other classics, has said publicly-more than once-that his research led him to the conclusion that the Birch Society was indeed a creation of the Rockefeller empire, based on precisely the same data that led Bealle to reach his assessment. So Bealle was not standing alone, by any means, in making these allegations..." end quote

http://www.barnesreview.org/John_birch.htm

 

[LibertyEagle]

You must break out of your controlled paradigm, it is for your own survival.

Attempting to shut this topic down with your comment, especially as a moderator, is to shut down open discussion and is quite a negative force on everyone here, and quite frankly, makes me wonder what the agenda of this forum really is.

This is how you answer my statement that you are not admitting when you have been shown to be incorrect in your assertions? Seriously?

Frankly, it comes across as a technique that someone would use who was attempting to obfuscate.

How anyone here can argue with a push toward independent thought development, outside of groups, groups that I argue are controlled, is beyond logic .

No one is arguing that. If you look back through this thread, you will see me saying the very same thing.

Here's what I'm seeing. Your main focus seems to be to attack the John Birch Society and in doing so, are falling for some of the very techniques that you yourself are trying to steer us away from. Some of your assertions have been shown to be wrong and when they are, instead of admitting you were incorrect, you attempt to just slide over them and continue the attack. I find it quite peculiar.

I don't pledge allegiance to the JBS or any other organization and I agree with you that it's not wise to do so. I believe that assertions and proposed facts should be verified before one just accepts them. I'm thinking that you might want to do so too.

 

[FrankRep]

That was a direct quote from Eustace Mullins, author of Secrets of the Federal Reserve (1952), who said he was told this information directly from Revilo Oliver, one of the JBS founders, while at Oliver's home for dinner.

A little searching finds the info quoted below, which support Mullins and Oliver.

JBS was setup by Nelson Rockefeller.

Nelson Rockefeller's Nabisco Company bought James O. Welch's Candy Company. James O. Welch is Robert Welch's brother.


Saying that Nelson Rockefeller funded or setup the John Birch Society is a complete lie.

Here's the story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_W._Welch,_Jr.

Robert Welch decided to manufacture candy as a way to earn a living, describing it as "the one field in which it seemed least impossible to get started without either capital or experience." He founded the Oxford Candy Company in Brooklyn, New York, which was a one-man operation until he hired his brother James to assist him. James Welch left to start his own candy company in 1925.
...

The Oxford Candy Company went out of business during the Great Depression, but his brother's company, the James O. Welch Company, survived, and Robert was hired by his brother. The company began making caramel lollipops, renamed Sugar Daddies, and Welch developed other well known candies such as Sugar Babies, Junior Mints, and Pom Poms. Welch retired a wealthy man in 1956.​

http://www.nytimes.com/1985/02/01/us/james-o-welch-dies-at-79-founder-of-candy-company.html

In 1963 the National Biscuit Company, now Nabisco Brands Inc., bought Mr. Welch's company. Mr. Welch was a director of Nabisco from 1963 until his retirement in 1978. His son, James O. Welch Jr., of Short Hills, N.J., is president of Nabisco.​

---


Do you seriously think Revilo Oliver, a Racist White Nationalist, is credible? The JBS kicked him out for being a racist. Revilo Oliver is a big reason why the JBS got smeared as racist.

Revilo Oliver called the JBS "the Birch hoax" because he thought the JBS was secretly run by Jews. That's why he was attacking the JBS.


Eustace Mullins is openly anti-Jewish and the JBS disowned him because of his views.

In the 1960s, Oliver supposedly broke with conventional American conservatism and, having become convinced that Welch had either cozened him from the start or sold out later, he even severed his connections with what he called "the Birch hoax." He thus came to openly embrace an essentially far-right worldview, and eventually to assist William Luther Pierce in forming the National Alliance, a White Nationalist organization, a significant portion of whose supporters and members would re-form under the name National Vanguard.​

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revilo_P._Oliver

 

[InterestedParticipant]

Here's what I'm seeing. Your main focus seems to be to attack the John Birch Society and in doing so, are falling for some of the very techniques that you yourself are trying to steer us away from. Some of your assertions have been shown to be wrong and when they are, instead of admitting you were incorrect, you attempt to just slide over them and continue the attack. I find it quite peculiar.

My primary focus is to expose the system, that has been my theme in all of my threads since I joined this forum in 2007.

JBS has been used as an example of controlled opposition because of the hypocrisy demonstrated in the OP's article.

The funny thing about it is I am not wrong. You are the victim of sleight of hand and semantic deception. For example, Griffin admitted in his reply email that he held on to Norman Dodd's interview, he did not deny that he held it for 20 years, only saying there was not sufficient interest to release it. Those are his own words, not mine. We have a JBS founder admitting what the JBS is and who really funded its startup. We have the JBS being a Gatekeeper, even today, with articles that propose bogus external threats that are really internal.

The evidence is overwhelming, and the only thing keeping anyone from seeing it is psychological manipulation.

 

[pcosmar]

InterestedParticipant=Eustace Mullins fanboy

nuff said

 

[LibertyEagle]

My primary focus is to expose the system, that has been my theme in all of my threads since I joined this forum in 2007.

JBS has been used as an example of controlled opposition because of the hypocrisy demonstrated in the OP's article.

The funny thing about it is I am not wrong. You are the victim of sleight of hand and semantic deception.

I am not a member of the JBS. I have read their stuff for many years; some of it I have agreed with and some I have not. But, I always verify what they're saying before I just tuck it away. One thing that I have always liked, is that they footnote their assertions, by backing them up with verifiable documents.

For example, Griffin admitted in his reply email that he held on to Norman Dodd's interview, he did not deny that he held it for 20 years, only saying there was not sufficient interest to release it. Those are his own words, not mine.

I'm not sure how old you are, but I remember stuff more damning than this, that many people were trying to get people to pay attention to. People cared more than they do now, but it still wasn't enough. People did not want to believe it could happen here. Now, that doesn't mean that I'm happy that he didn't release it, but I read the stuff in that video in books, YEARS ago. It wasn't like it was a secret, if you were looking, or cared. In fact, the JBS wrote pieces about the very things that were in Griffin's interview. As I recall, that was already pointed out to you by someone in this thread. But instead of acknowledging that, you steam on. Perhaps it is because it kind of takes the wind out of your assertion; I don't know.

We have a JBS founder admitting what the JBS is and who really funded its startup. We have the JBS being a Gatekeeper, even today, with articles that propose bogus external threats that are really internal.

The evidence is overwhelming, and the only thing keeping anyone from seeing it is psychological manipulation.

lol.

Oliver was kicked out for his beliefs. I don't believe he was the only bad apple that they divested themselves of, over the years. Good groups get infiltrated and if they're smart, they're vigilant and kick them out when they're identified.

For me, I read stuff from a bunch of sources and try my best to verify what I'm reading. I think it's a problem to rely on any one source for all your news; whether that is the John Birch Society, Lew Rockwell.com, the MSM, or even Ron Paul.

 

[jmdrake]

Wow! Awesome article! Really hit home. Especially this part.

In a few instances, these groups have leaders who come right out of the ranks of the Council on Foreign Relations. In the case of Newt Gingrich, one has to marvel that the man who took control of the conservative groundswell in the early 1990s and misdirected it into supporting big government and foreign entanglements such as NAFTA, is back once again, paddling in front of the wave to steer it as before. This time his reemergence seems to be part of a bid for the Presidency.

I've been to two tea parties. recently organized by two different groups. The second one really gave me pause. The opening prayer asked God to help us "support Israel from where comes our salvation". There was also a taped message played from Newt Gingrich. A lot of "Obama bashing" with nobody pointing out the fact that the bailouts go back to Bush. There were some good speakers too that stuck to important issues like small government and fiscal responsibility. But on balance a casual observer would have thought it was just another GOP rally. We can't afford to let that happen.

 

[jmdrake]

My primary focus is to expose the system, that has been my theme in all of my threads since I joined this forum in 2007.

JBS has been used as an example of controlled opposition because of the hypocrisy demonstrated in the OP's article.

The funny thing about it is I am not wrong. You are the victim of sleight of hand and semantic deception. For example, Griffin admitted in his reply email that he held on to Norman Dodd's interview, he did not deny that he held it for 20 years, only saying there was not sufficient interest to release it. Those are his own words, not mine. We have a JBS founder admitting what the JBS is and who really funded its startup. We have the JBS being a Gatekeeper, even today, with articles that propose bogus external threats that are really internal.

The evidence is overwhelming, and the only thing keeping anyone from seeing it is psychological manipulation.

I'm not a Bircher although I do have friends who are. We hadn't talked about what was said in this article, but it underscored a lot of my concerns. The external threats are NOT bogus! There is a concerted effort to undermine the "tea party" movement by making it appear to be nothing more than a GOP cheering squad. If you aren't aware of this then you just aren't paying attention.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

I'm not a Bircher although I do have friends who are. We hadn't talked about what was said in this article, but it underscored a lot of my concerns. The external threats are NOT bogus! There is a concerted effort to undermine the "tea party" movement by making it appear to be nothing more than a GOP cheering squad. If you aren't aware of this then you just aren't paying attention.

Yup, the New American is spot-on when it says that Korea is perpetrating the current cyber attacks. Yup, that's one we should believe!

This is how gatekeeping is done, it obfuscates the real perpetrators....hides the real enemy. This is why Griffin couldn't publish Dodd's interview until after the Communist threat was dismantled and the need for that dialectic muted. And that is why the New American is hiding the real perpetrators of these cyber attacks, so that our illusions remain intact.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

For me, I read stuff from a bunch of sources and try my best to verify what I'm reading. I think it's a problem to rely on any one source for all your news; whether that is the John Birch Society, Lew Rockwell.com, the MSM, or even Ron Paul.

Now, that is very encouraging.

So, should I assume that you've followed up the many leads that I've referred to in this thread, that you've done your own research and haven't relied solely on what anyone has said in this thread?

 

[FrankRep]

Yup, the New American is spot-on when it says that Korea is perpetrating the current cyber attacks. Yup, that's one we should believe!

The New American brings up this point that American wants a Cybersecurity bill passed. Now conveniently we're having Internet attacks.

The New American has already exposed these facts.


New Cybersecurity Regime Proposed

Ann Shibler | The New American
09 April 2009

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/tech-mainmenu-30/computers/983

 

[InterestedParticipant]

Saying that Nelson Rockefeller funded or setup the John Birch Society is a complete lie.

The quote stated that Nelson Rockefeller arranged for the purchase of the Welch Candy company at an inflated price so that the startup of JBS could be funded. According to Moody's Manual, two of [Nabisco's] directors were Roy E. Tomlinson and Don. G. Mitchell. [Both are] members of the Council on Foreign Relations. Further, they are a pair of Rockefeller's "professional directors.

Does anyone here really believe that these directors would act on their own, without Nelson Rockefellers direction on a matter such as the acquisition of a company. The Welch brothers were given $10,800,000, when it is reported that the business was worth approximately $200,000.