Controlled Opposition - A must read for everyone in the liberty movement

[LibertyEagle]

I presented evidence that supported the fact that JBS & Griffin are knowingly misleading their followers through containment (ie. not presenting all the information that they have available in order to maintain a given construct of reality). I referred to social research & academic institutions that created techniques commonly used in disinformation. Not one person in this thread appears to have read these references, and not one person has asked a relevant objective followup question about the techniques utilized.

Here's the thing. When you make claims about people/organizations, unless you back up your assertions with some pretty darn good facts, people are likely to take issue. Especially when you ding an organization, the JBS, which Dr. Paul has spoken highly of for decades.

Instead, what I saw was you making a lot of claims, but when people asked you for specifics, instead of giving them, you suggested to them that they couldn't understand unless they figured it out themselves. The few things that you did offer seemed rather non substantive.

Who knows, you could be right, but if so, you're probably going to have to offer more hard evidence for most to believe it.

What I have received is as mentioned in previous posts: outright dismissal; thread usurpation; refusal to research any of the material presented; and finally threats that were ignored by moderators.

If you perceive a threat, use the flag feature

to report it to the Moderators and Admins.

 

[FrankRep]

InterestedParticipant, Ron Paul is a strong supporter of the John Birch Society and has spoken in many of their gatherings.

Is Ron Paul also apart of this "Controlled Opposition" that you label the JBS and G. Edward Griffin?

 

[InterestedParticipant]

InterestedParticipant, Ron Paul is a strong supporter of the John Birch Society and has spoken in many of their gatherings.

Is Ron Paul also apart of this "Controlled Opposition" that you label the JBS and G. Edward Griffin?

I've followed Ron for 20 years, I supported his campaign, but Ron doesn't speak for me and Ron certainly doesn't think for you me. I do my own analysis and form my own opinion. Further, Ron has pressures and constraints on him that I do not.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

I appreciate your posts in this thread. I think many quiet readers do.
Griffins answer is weak indeed:
"I am amazed that anyone pays attention to him." What he does here is stating that by paying attention in this case a societal norm is violated. Usually an indicator that someone tries to move a discussion from the fact level to a gut level.

However, you've done much research and I would appreciate your findings on who TPTB are and how the cure could look like. In my opinion a sincere localism will make opposition uncontrollable.

I am not sure I understand your question. Can you please rephrase it for me. Thx.

 

[InterestedParticipant]

With regard to Griffin's point that their was insufficient public interest in the Dodd interview to publish and distribute it, I would like to remind forum participants that not only was this the period in which Reagan was pushing the Evil Empire meme, but it was also near the time when Gorby & Reagan met in Iceland for Nuke treaty talks, but most importantly, do you recall what story broke in 1986, only 4-years after the Dodd interview? It was Iran-Contra, where Reagan/Bush were caught selling arms to the Iranians (same ones who had our hostages) so that the Contras could be funded to fight communism in Nicaragua. And what was Reagan's publicly stated reason for funding the Contras....well, he told the public that the communists could drive to Texas in only a few hours and be at Americas doorstep.

So, while the entire country was glued to their TV sets watching the Tower Commission interview Oliver North et al about their role in fighting Central American Communists, Griffin is claiming that there was insufficient interest in a video that exposed the Communist threat as a fraud. The logic simply does not withhold scrutiny.

Now, there was another significant interview during this period, and that was with Yuri Besmenov, a supposed KGB defector, in 1984. Does anyone know when this video was actually released? I mean, do you have proof of its public release date?

 

[paulim]

I am not sure I understand your question. Can you please rephrase it for me. Thx.

My first question would be if you recognize patterns when you see deceptions. My second question is, if there are that many deceptions, how to fight their influence.

Yesterday I read a newspaper article about the philosophy of Leo Strauss, who said politics should invent myths of fear to propagate their hierachy. So, surely fear is one pattern. And there are surely much more and much more detailed ones. Maybe you found something in this regard.

 

[FrankRep]

With regard to Griffin's point that their was insufficient public interest in the Dodd interview to publish and distribute it,

There still isn't a sufficient amount of public interest even on this forum.

 

[emazur]

There still isn't a sufficient amount of public interest even on this forum.

Agreed. BTW, Griffin's friend Dr. Stan Monteith beat him to the punch and first interviewed Norman Dodd, and this interview was aired on the radio and can be found here:
http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/tax-e...-within-norman-dodd-dr-stan-monteith/15161709
I posted about it a couple months ago but nobody was interested:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=187982&highlight=monteith
The Diggers didn't much care either, of those 29 diggs, one was mine, 20 were from my libertarian digg friends and I'll bet the majority of those were "favor diggs" from people who didn't bother to watch it, the remaining 8 were probably from random people who just digg random stuff for shits and giggles

 

[Conservative Christian]

InterestedParticipant (AKA "New World Order Disinformation Agent") is either willfully spreading disinformation, or is totally clueless---most likely a combination of the two.

First of all, Griffin did NOT "sit" on the interview for 20 years after recording it.

I have in my possession at this time, an old VHS video copy of the complete interview, which Ed released YEARS AGO through his "American Media" outfit. It was professionally done, and packaged in a very nice hard case.

I bought several copies at that point in time, and took them to gun shows, the meetings of various conservative and libertarian groups etc.---trying to sell them. I also showed the video at the meetings of various conservative/libertarian groups.

The video went over like a fart in church. There was virtually no interest in it. I actively promoted the video for years, and sold maybe one or two copies in all that time.

Ed Griffin quit manufacturing and promoting it, because it simply wouldn't sell. However, with the rise of the internet/www, it is now much easier to mass advertise the video---so Ed resurrected it. Even with the massive exposure on the web though, sales of the DVD version are NOT impressive.

If InterestedParticipant thinks the video is some kind of "smoking gun" that would've "routed" the new world order, if only the alleged "controlled opposition" of Ed and the JBS would've promoted it more---then he's quite simply DELIRIOUS.

Dodd provides NO documentation for his remarks in the video. It's absolutely LUDICROUS to believe that the interview would've "awakened the masses". Having personally showed the video to hundreds of people over the years, not one of them got very excited about it.

 

[Conservative Christian]

This could be the most ironic thread ever posted on RPF, because JBS was setup as controlled opposition.

If I had the money, I'd offer $10K to anyone who could prove that anyone in the extended media or in the public eye is NOT controlled. I haven't found one yet, and I don't care what names or organizations you bring up. They all are!

The public is on its own, and the sooner they realize it the better off we'll be.

We're not required to try to "prove" a negative.

You're the one throwing around undocumented allegations, so the burden of proof is clearly on you.

PROVE to us that the JBS and all other conservative/libertarian groups and individuals in the public eye are "controlled opposition". Please name the controlled organizations, the individuals doing the controlling and who they ultimately work for, explain precisely how they control the organizations etc.

We eagerly await your reply, but please don't ask us to hold our breath!

 

[Conservative Christian]

He did the interview and sat on it to keep the information contained for 20 years. And to say there was no interest was BS, a little look around and he would have found Charlotte Iserbyt who was exposing similar information in her book Dumbing Us Down, and this interview would have strengthened her work tremendously.

^BS alert!

You GROSSLY over-exaggerate the video. Good information, yes----a smoking gun that would do great damage to the conspiracy, ROTFLMAO!

By the way, Charlotte Iserbyt has recommended the John Birch Society to her readers.

"Dumbing Us Down" was widely circulated in JBS circles, which you admit was "exposing similar information", so your "coverup" hypothesis isn't faring too well.

Pretty lame "reasoning" on your part. Thus far, your propaganda campaign against the JBS isn't doing too well.

 

[Conservative Christian]

John Birch Society president John McManus, interviewed Charlotte Iserbyt in the John Birch Society publication "The New American" (with a circulation of tens of thousands)---over NINE years ago.

Iserbyt's book "Dumbing Us Down" was freely discussed, and the magazine even gave Iserbyt's website address, as well as ordering information for the book.

Iserbyt has posted the interview on her personal website:
http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/OtherPDFs/Iserbyt_Education_Matters.pdf

InterestedParticipant's propaganda offensive against the JBS has thus far fallen flat on its face.

 

[LibertyEagle]

With regard to Griffin's point that their was insufficient public interest in the Dodd interview to publish and distribute it, I would like to remind forum participants that not only was this the period in which Reagan was pushing the Evil Empire meme, but it was also near the time when Gorby & Reagan met in Iceland for Nuke treaty talks, but most importantly, do you recall what story broke in 1986, only 4-years after the Dodd interview? It was Iran-Contra, where Reagan/Bush were caught selling arms to the Iranians (same ones who had our hostages) so that the Contras could be funded to fight communism in Nicaragua. And what was Reagan's publicly stated reason for funding the Contras....well, he told the public that the communists could drive to Texas in only a few hours and be at Americas doorstep.

So, while the entire country was glued to their TV sets watching the Tower Commission interview Oliver North et al about their role in fighting Central American Communists, Griffin is claiming that there was insufficient interest in a video that exposed the Communist threat as a fraud. The logic simply does not withhold scrutiny.

Now, there was another significant interview during this period, and that was with Yuri Besmenov, a supposed KGB defector, in 1984. Does anyone know when this video was actually released? I mean, do you have proof of its public release date?

One of the problems is that most people do not believe things unless they see it on MSM. It's very sad.

 

[Conservative Christian]

I think he answered that. And that part is plausible, imo. If one wanted to control both sides of an argument, you would make sure you had control of the information. By Griffin interviewing Dodd, Dodd would think that he had at least gotten out the information and if someone else approached him to do same, he would likely turn them away, because it had already been done. Then, those wanting to control could edit or sit on the information that they now had in their hands.

At least, that's what I'm taking his point to be.

Note: I'm not saying I agree, because I don't know.

EDIT: Actually, this is the same type of thing that Carroll Quigley (Clinton's mentor) discussed in Tragedy and Hope, with regard to both major political parties being controlled. When the people get tired of one of the parties, the parties are switched out, but the same agenda continues. We think there has been a change, when in reality nothing has changed.

His hypothesis and allegations still fall flat.

As another poster already pointed out, Stanley Monteith also interviewed Dodd, and attempted to get the word out. However, there was virtually no interest in it.

There's nothing in the interview that would convince somebody who did NOT believe in a conspiracy, that there was in fact a conspiracy.

Carrol Quigley's book "Tragedy & Hope" was FAR more damaging to the conspirators than the Dodd interview, because he was able to go into the greater detail that a book allows, and Quigley was an "Insider" himself! His new world order establishment credentials are unquestioned, and he fully APPROVED of what the conspirators were trying to do.

The John Birch Society has sold and distributed more copies of "Tragedy & Hope" than any organization or individual in world history, and the book is still CURRENTLY available on their website.

InterestedParticipant's propaganda and arguments are melting faster than the Wicked Witch of the West!

 

[Conservative Christian]

Now, there was another significant interview during this period, and that was with Yuri Besmenov, a supposed KGB defector, in 1984. Does anyone know when this video was actually released? I mean, do you have proof of its public release date?

Yuri Bezmenov was on the John Birch Society's national speakers bureau tour in the 1980's, and spoke at numerous locations around the country, fully sponsored by the JBS.

I personally heard him speak at a John Birch Society speech in Greenville, SC in the 1980's---which attracted a crowd of well over a hundred people, STANDING ROOM ONLY.

The JBS sold and distributed more copies of his video than any other organization on the planet.

Keep trying to smear the JBS, little buckaroo! Thus far you're batting about ZERO FOR FIFTY!

 

[Conservative Christian]

To keep Dodd from being interviewed by an "unauthorized" source who would have released this information in a timely way. It's an intervention in order to control the information. This is a common technique.

Look, it's about Total Information Dominance (look up this concept). TID means controlling ALL information, even opposition information. So, you can bury it, or rewrite history (his-story), or mix it with some false information to create confusion, etc.

Why did Walter Chronkite recently receive the World Federation Association award (a globalist organization)? and why in his acceptance speech did he say come hell or highwater he wanted world government?

The name is spelled CRONKITE, and the organization he got the award from was the World FEDERALIST Association.

And he did NOT receive it "recently". Thanks to the John Birch Society, that reported the event immediately after it happened almost ten years ago, I'm already well aware of your factoid.

Try to at least get ONE THING right, and please stop boring us with stories that are OLD NEWS to John Birch Society members.

By the way, it was Hillary Clinton who introduced Cronkite that night.

Keep trying to smear the JBS, big guy. Thus far you've only proven how LITTLE you know.

 

[nayjevin]

I find this interesting because the techniques discussed are to me, unquestionably used. I know little about JBS except that it does appear it has suffered 'character' attacks over the years -- from what I've seen they tend to get the 'quixotic' 'kook' treatment from major media outlets.

I do believe TPTB would stop at nothing to co-opt, undermine good groups, so I'm more interested in the underlying principle than proving G Edward Griffin or JBS is or isn't CO.

IP - what is the incentive for individual infiltrators, do you think? Cash? Sex? Blackmail?

How about feasibility? It takes alot of competent people complicit to TPTB's agenda in enough positions of power to compromise a majority (as I think you are claiming) of liberty organizations, right? Where do these people come from? Seems unlikely to me that there are enough pawns that fit the profile, but I'm open to your comments.

I noticed your reference to the sociopathic. I have seen many examples (like McCain) of this form of puppet. How are these folks 'bred from birth' to become the faces for these global power plays?

Thanks.

 

[Conservative Christian]

Finally, Charlotte's footnotes reference other sources of excellent material, such as William Fosters Toward a Soviet America.

The John Birch Society exposed Foster's book in the 1960's, and actually sold the book through the mail and their chain of American Opinion Bookstores for MANY years.

Just because you just fell off the turnip truck, doesn't mean everybody else did.

Quit boring us with OLD NEWS that the John Birch Society exposed and reported on DECADES ago.

 

[Conservative Christian]

This is a minor point.

The much larger point is that the White House was collaborating with Wall Street to merge the Soviet and US systems. And this was known at the time that Reagan was spouting-out the "evil empire" propaganda.

This is no small matter.

The John Birch Society starting selling and distributing Antony Sutton's "Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution" on a nationwide basis, right after it was published in 1974.

So the JBS was YEARS AHEAD of johnny-come-lately's like yourself on that topic!

Keep trying, bub. Your smear campaign against the JBS is still batting ZERO!

 

[Conservative Christian]

What we had was testimony in the Reece Committee that was buried. Dodd was obviously trying to get the information out as he was in the last years of his life. He obviously trusted that this interview would result in wider and timely dissemination of this information. But the information was buried.

The John Birch Society started selling and distributing Rene Wormser's 1958 book "Foundations: Their Power and Influence", on a nationwide basis DECADES ago.

Wormser was chief legal counsel for the Reece Committee, which investigated the tax-exempt foundations in the 1950's. He was privy to all the information that Dodd was.

The book is hundreds of pages, and provides a massive level of documentation that Dodd's brief interview with Griffin couldn't even begin to touch on.

The JBS has sold and distributed THOUSANDS of copies of the book since at least the 1960's, which was a FAR better tool for exposing the foundations than Dodd's interview. NOTHING was buried.

Thus far, all you've proven is your gross ignorance of the John Birch Society.