Constitutional Question - FLDS Church Raid

[constituent]

The only thing they had ( as far as the news reports go) was a alleged phone call, from someone that they can not prove exists.
They have not found the alleged caller, She was NOT at the location. She has NOT come forward.
Is there any PROOF that she exists or made a call?
Or is this a way to get into a private residence and harass the residents?

aratus,

hst covered this in his last book. prophetic indeed (to his credit).

 

[Sandra]

Sandra I bet you LOVE the fucking Patriot Act, you probably feel much "safer" its morons such as you that have traded our freedoms away for the perception of "safety"

You do realize that ending a post with this stuff makes everything above it forgotten.

 

[constituent]

i wonder how asset forfeiture will apply here?

anyone know what the real estate was worth?

that's probably the real answer. it's how things are done in texas.

prolly had nothing to do w/ their religion or how they were living their lives...

some chump saw a way to setup someone they didn't like, and some cop saw a chance to get paid.

in texas, (a minimum of) 90% of the time that's it.

 

[UtahApocalypse]

Just not as bad as do Catholic priests. So, the definition of a cult is anything that is small and insignificant? If you happen to belong to the large cult like the Catholic religion your compound is immune from prosecution by tyranny? Why don't they ever kill Catholic dogs? What policy do they abide by that keeps them from blowing up, poisoning, shooting and burning Catholic children? Why do they only kill the dogs and children of small, weird religions? Just what in the hell is a compound? When does a Church stop being a Church and start being a compound?

Good to see someone gets it.

When the Texas Rangers came for the Polygamists,
I remained silent;
I was not a Polygamist.

When they locked up the Tax protesters,
I remained silent;
I was not a Tax protester.

When they came for the Gun Rights supporters,
I did not speak out;
I was not Gun Rights Supporter.

When they came for the Freedom Loving Americans,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Freedom Loving American.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

 

[driller80545]

If it's not like "Leave it to Beaver", then it doesn't fit into the illusion! Of course, it's not Andy Griffin that they sent out there to straighten up those perverts. Ha, good ol Texas family values.

 

[pcosmar]

Answer just one question. If you were to receive a call from a girl asking for help in this situation, what would you have done?

If you can't answer the question then everything you say is just vapor.

A logical question, and one I ask myself.

First I would verify the caller, and try to find out if any information can be verified.
Did the call come from the location claimed or another location? Who is the Phone registered to?
Who is the" Husband", and is he or has he been in the area?
In this "highly controlled environment" are cell phones common? How is she able to make this call or calls if she is under someones "control"?

It is called INVESTIGATION, and it should be done BEFORE a warrant is issued.
Unless, of course, there is an agenda.

Now, what is known.
First, the alleged husband is NOT and has not lately been in Texas.
He is under supervision in another State, and denies knowing this girl.

Second, NO GIRL, this is all based on a alleged phone call. We are expected to take the word of the social worked that claims it happened.

There has been a ongoing and pervasive persecution of this group.
The local library stocked up on anti-Mormon literature. The local churches are actively involved in the abduction of the Women and Children.
Folks there have wanted to get inside the private property for some time but had no grounds until this alleged phone call.
NO arrests were made, but a searce was done to find out IF there may have been any crime committed.

There is more here than the Media spin would indicate.

 

[constituent]

UtahApacalypse said:

When the Texas Rangers came for the Polygamists,
I remained silent;
I was not a Polygamist.

When they locked up the Tax protesters,
I remained silent;
I was not a Tax protester.

When they came for the Gun Rights supporters,
I did not speak out;
I was not Gun Rights Supporter.

When they came for the Freedom Loving Americans,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Freedom Loving American.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

They're hunting down "illegals" like dogs everyday in this state, where is the outrage?

Where is the justification for valuing these individuals' lives and freedoms more than any others?

 

[UtahApocalypse]

UtahApacalypse said:



They're hunting down "illegals" like dogs everyday in this state, where is the outrage?

Where is the justification for valuing these individuals' lives and freedoms more than any others?

Easy... Illegals are not Citizens of these United States and thus not protected by the Constitution. The members of the FLDS Church ARE like it or not.

 

[constituent]

Easy... Illegals are not Citizens of these United States and thus not protected by the Constitution. The members of the FLDS Church ARE like it or not.

ok then, drug dealers. get off the persecution complex. their religion was secondary at best in terms of the cops decision to raid.

is polygamy a constitutionally protected right? i guess that's the question here?

no, of course not.

is polygamy a religious freedom thing? i don't think so.

i reckon you could justify nearly anything if you peg it to a religion.

in terms of individual liberty, do i support their right to live that way? absolutely.

are laws prohibiting their chosen lifestyle wrong, even tyrannical? or course.

that said, if there are laws in the state prohibiting that lifestyle or behavior, then
expect that one day tptb might just come knockin'

don't holler religious persecution though simply b/c i don't agree w/ your stance.
(or for that matter, an all out And Who Will Kill You... bit on me)

i do however agree w/ pcosmar's stance. there is the constitutional protection for you.
basing your justification on religious practice however, well.. good luck on that.

 

[UtahApocalypse]

Actually I am not even touching the religious persecution angle. My big concern has been the 4th amendment that was completely thrown away.

 

[constituent]

Actually I am not even touching the religious persecution angle. My big concern has been the 4th amendment that was completely thrown away.

amen to that, long gone unfortunately.

par for the course these days.

"the american republic is in remnant status."
-ron paul

 

[NMCB3]

The accused is innocent until sufficient evidence PROVES BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT otherwise, and the government must follow and is not above the law. What is so fucking hard to understand about that?.... This forum has some of the smartest, and dumbest SOB`s on the net.

 

[klamath]

Easy... Illegals are not Citizens of these United States and thus not protected by the Constitution. The members of the FLDS Church ARE like it or not.

Were in the constitution does it say only US citizens in this country are covered by the constitution? This is the same idea that holds non citizens in Gitmo.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

....and your defense of sexual slavery?
.....and child rape?

You are sick!

Ok Nancy Grace (aka Sandra), we know you're on here...

And obviousy you must have first hand, eye-witness knowledge of the hundreds of rapes (and slavery) that took place? If that really is the case, we will all expect and support a lot of convictions on these charges.

Will you be called to the witness stand? Perhaps you will take an oath or affirmation to support your claims and accusations in this thread?

------

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

 

[Dr.3D]

LOL, Nancy Grace is an alarmist bitch. When ever something happens, she has somebody guilty before they have even gone to trial. Anybody else notice how nearly all prosecuting attorneys are the same way? Guilty until proven innocent. It is pretty hard for somebody to prove themselves innocent when so many are pointing a finger at them and saying they are guilty.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Laws are laws. It isn't anti-libertarian to protect children. And at least they didn't go in guns a-blazing as in Waco.

Wish I could attribute the quote, but I don't know who first said it: Civilization's purpose is to protect preagnant women and children. Everything else is just window dressing (or words to that effect).

I'm sure Ron Paul will lead us in a crusade to save the children from any and all threats, imaginary or real...including the biggest threat of all to our children, the Constitution.

 

[Dr.3D]

I'm sure Ron Paul will lead us in a crusade to save the children from any and all threats, imaginary or real...including the biggest threat of all to our children, the Constitution.

Shouldn't that be... the erosion of the Constitution?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Shouldn't that be... the erosion of the Constitution?

Sorry, that was supposed to be ironic sarcasm... I should have made that more clear. Of course erosion of our Constitution is a real danger to our children.

Erosion of our Constitution is often justified by the "for the children" argument. As a matter of fact, just about anything can be justified with that emotional argument. It's the "ends justify the means" way of thinking, and if the "ends" is "protecting the children", then any "means" is justified (a false and dangerous path). If that includes suspending the Constitution and taking every child in the country into the "protective custody" of the government, then that's ok to some people.

Those who want to eliminate the Second Amendment (right to bear arms) often use "for the children" arguement too.

As I write this, the tv news just said that there is a proposal to randomly search houses for guns to "protect teens" from gun violence....

 

[Aratus]

the kids who had been isolated and raised on the compound
without the normal round of childhood vaccinations right after
being seperated from their mothers in a central holding area
are getting chickenpox. there are at least 15 cases, these are
kids who are older, who weren't exposed earlier. the situation
is going from bad to worse, the mothers are furious at being
seperated from their children. one group of mothers went back
to the mormon ranch, the others went into a womans shelter.
uncle sam is trying to be a legal guardian, and have 400 cases
happen in tandem, wheread normally the authorities would spend
weeks or months per case per child. this is almost a zoo and its the feds.

 

[UtahApocalypse]

Why has Ron Paul not addressed this?? It in Texas his home state!!!! I seriously will NEVER visit Texas after this. I hope the do leave the United States, they don't deserve the Freedom were fighting for.