Constitutional Question - FLDS Church Raid

Does the fact that I came on this blog help my cause or hurt it in your eyes? Sometimes I wonder if defending my cooky beliefs creates a negative backlash rather than a positive one. Does it?

What exactly is your cause? I think it's great that someone of the FLDS religion has taken the time and trouble to "defend" and explain their views! I'm surprised that you happen to be the only one. While I am not of the FLDS religion, I am poly, and actually registered on this forum because no one else seemed to be contributing to this discussion from the perspective of being in a poly relationship (also see the "privatizing marriage" thread in the GC section of this forum). I think that more poly people speaking out and explaining why their beliefs are not bad can only be a good thing....and that goes for anyone who has beliefs or a lifestyle that is "out of the mainstream" in any sort of way. The general public at large learning to understand different perspectives and see that they are not intrinsically bad is unfortunately the necessary first step in getting the government out of our relationships and how we choose to define them. I look forward to hearing you speak more about your beliefs, and will certainly read your offered web blog, even though I do not find your religion "goofy" at all.
 
I have not read the Lewrockwell piece that you refer to. I have heard this allegation. I have not seen any wide spread prosecutions or convictions for welfare fraud. From what I know and have seen most Mormons are financially responsible, and their church teaches that. The folks in Texas had backing from very wealthy business men, and there has been NO evidence of welfare fraud.
If you don't like welfare fraud END WELFARE. Prosecute Individuals that abuse the system.
Don't use it as an excuse to attack a group of people for their religious beliefs.

Just to clarify the FLDS Church is not the LDS Church and thus not Mormons. I hate that so many people have not made that distinction.

Anyways.... things are still a total mess in Texas and not looking to get better. I can't believe NO one has stood up for the FLDS people who are on the verge of experiencing what the jews did in Germany. They are being forced to work, move, and change their lifestyles and denounce their religion to get the kids back. Why is it the supposed Freedom loving Texans have not brought forth large demonstrations, complaints, and the such? What I am seeing is that most you cowards are ok with whats going on simply because they are members of a quirky church. What happens when you become the quirky one??

As to the accusations of 'Lew Rockwell' of the FLDS scamming the welfare system GO TOP HELL ASSHOLE. First off where is the evidence or charges?? NONE just like the rest of this mess. Secondly, I know dozens of other people who 'Scam' welfare because they have 5-7 kids from not closing their legs. At least the FLDS are raising the kids, and have the parents ALL participating in that. Lastly, Good for the FLDS for getting some free money from the government, its only pennies on the dollar compared to what Texas will be paying them FOREVER after the lawsuits fly on this.
 
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Not only did I read it, I had an email conversation with Rick Fisk about his article. My two points were:

"It is true that more boys leave than girls, but many girls also leave the FLDS and not one was ever expelled for the rediculous reason you mentioned as obvious."
"You did state that the states actions are bogus, but you also perpetuated the myth that the FLDS would cease to exist without the state. "

I have a question for you. Does the fact that I came on this blog help my cause or hurt it in your eyes? Sometimes I wonder if defending my cooky beliefs creates a negative backlash rather than a positive one. Does it?

i think sharing your views can only help your cause. "cooky beliefs?" we've all got those.

pcosmar, i believe fisk's allegations were directed at this specific sect.
 
Just to clarify the FLDS Church is not the LDS Church and thus not Mormons. 1) I hate that so many people have not made that distinction.

Anyways.... things are still a total mess in Texas and not looking to get better. I can't believe NO one has stood up for the FLDS people who are on the verge of experiencing what the jews did in Germany. They are being forced to work, move, and change their lifestyles and denounce their religion to get the kids back.2) Why is it the supposed Freedom loving Texans have not brought forth large demonstrations, complaints, and the such? What I am seeing is that 3) most you cowards are ok with whats going on simply because they are members of a quirky church. What happens when you become the quirky one??

As to the accusations of 'Lew Rockwell' of the FLDS scamming the welfare system 4) GO TOP HELL ASSHOLE. First off where is the evidence or charges?? NONE just like the rest of this mess. Secondly, I know dozens of other people who 'Scam' welfare because they have 5-7 kids from not closing their legs. At least the FLDS are raising the kids, and have the parents ALL participating in that. Lastly, 5) Good for the FLDS for getting some free money from the government, its only pennies on the dollar compared to what Texas will be paying them FOREVER after the lawsuits fly on this.


blah blah blah, typical melodramatic, over the top, emotional b.s. from utahapocalypse.

now for the line by line.

1) Exactly which people are those?

2) Out with the insults b/c we aren't gung-ho, guns in the street over your pet cause?

Once again Utah, where is your outrage over all the folks in prison over weapons and/or "drugs" charges? Why are you not out demonstrating for them?

Self-righteous hypocrite.

3) "Most of you cowards" who tf are you even talking to here? i imagine you sitting at your computer shouting this at your keys (as if they could talk back to defend themselves)

4) Kill yourself (in real life), so I can see you there and we've got a deal... ASSHOLE!

5) I think number five says more about your character than I could.

How dare I posses an opinion differing from your own? the audacity. :rolleyes:
 
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/POLYGAMIST_RETREAT?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

Texas seizure of polygamist-sect kids thrown out

By MICHELLE ROBERTS
Associated Press Writer

SAN ANGELO, Texas (AP) -- A Texas appeals court said Thursday that the state had no right to take more than 400 children from a polygamist sect's ranch, a ruling that could unravel one of the biggest child-custody cases in U.S. history.

The Third Court of Appeals in Austin ruled that the state offered "legally and factually insufficient" grounds for the "extreme" measure of removing all children from the ranch, from babies to teenagers.

The state never provided evidence that the children were in any immediate danger, the only grounds in Texas law for taking children from their parents without court approval, the appeals court said.

It also failed to show evidence that more than five of the teenage girls were being sexually abused, and never alleged any sexual or physical abuse against the other children, the court said.

It was not immediately clear whether the children scattered across foster facilities statewide might soon be reunited with parents. The ruling gave Texas District Judge Barbara Walther 10 days to vacate her custody order, and the state could appeal.

FLDS spokesman Rod Parker said sect members feel validated, having argued from the beginning that they were being persecuted for their beliefs.

"They're very thrilled. They're looking forward to seeing the children returned," he said.

The appellate decision technically applies only to 38 of the roughly 200 parents who challenged the seizure. But their lawyer, Julie Balovich of Texas RioGrande Legal Aid, said she expected attorneys for all the other parents to seek to join the ruling.

"It's a great day for Texas justice. This was the right decision," said Balovich, who was joined by several smiling mothers who nonetheless declined to comment at a news conference outside the courthouse here.

Every child at the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado was taken into state custody more than six weeks ago, after Child Protective Services officials argued that members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints pushed underage girls into marriage and sex and groomed boys to become adult perpetrators. Only a few dozen of the roughly 440 children seized are teenage girls; half were under 5.

The appeals court said the state was wrong to consider the entire ranch as an individual household and that the state couldn't take all the children from a community on the notion that some parents in the community might be abusers.

"The existence of the FLDS belief system as described by the department's witnesses, by itself, does not put children of FLDS parents in physical danger," the court said in its ruling.

The court said that although five girls had become pregnant at age 15 or 16, the state gave no evidence about the circumstances of the pregnancies. It noted that minors as young as 16 can wed in Texas with parental consent, and even younger children can marry if a court approves it.

Balovich said the appeals court "has stood up for the legal rights of these families and given these mothers hope that their families will be brought back together."

CPS spokesman Patrick Crimmins said department attorneys had just received the ruling and would make any decision about an appeal later.

"We are trying to assess the impact that this may have on our case," he said.

Even before Thursday's ruling, the state's allegations of teenage girls being pushed into sex appeared to be deflating.

Of the 31 sect members CPS once said were underage mothers, 15 have been reclassified as adults - one was 27 years old - and an attorney for a 14-year-old girl said in court that she had no children and was not pregnant, as officials previously asserted.

Five judges in San Angelo, about 40 miles north of Eldorado, have been hearing CPS's plans for the parents seeking to regain custody. Those hearings, which began Monday, were suspended after the appellate ruling Thursday.

The custody case has been chaotic from the beginning. The hearing in which Walther ruled that the children should all enter state custody ran two days.

Hundreds of lawyers crammed into a courtroom and nearby auditorium, queuing up to voice objections or ask questions on behalf of the mothers who were there in their trademark prairie dresses and braided hair.

CPS has struggled with even the identities of the children for weeks and scattered them across foster facilities all over the sprawling state, with some siblings separated by as much as 600 miles.

The sect children were removed en masse during a raid that began April 3 after someone called a domestic abuse hot line claiming to be a pregnant abused teenage wife. The girl has not been found and authorities are investigating whether the calls were a hoax.

The FLDS, which teaches that polygamy brings glorification in heaven, is a breakaway of the Mormon church, which renounced polygamy more than a century ago. Members contend they are being persecuted by state officials for their religious beliefs.
 
What about liberty for those teenaged girls probably held against their will by those religious terrorist pedophiles? Taking away liberty of the innocents by spewing religious vomit is fucking low class.

There is a line. A limit. I actually expected an USAF F-16 to come and drop cluster bombs on that "church".
 
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What about liberty for those teenaged girls probably held against their will by those religious terrorist pedophiles? Taking away liberty of the innocents by spewing religious vomit is fucking low class.

There is a line. A limit. I actually expected an USAF F-16 to come and drop cluster bombs on that "church".
I hope you are joking, But if not,
Please do Not flaunt your ignorance.
There is NO evidence of abuse. There is NO evidence of anyone held against their will.

There IS evidence of a prank phone call and a FALSE report.

YOUR post glorifying Ignorance and LIES, is low class.
Please do some research.
 
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I don't need proofs.

sun0528%20jeffs.big.jpg
 
What about liberty for those teenaged girls probably held against their will by those religious terrorist pedophiles? Taking away liberty of the innocents by spewing religious vomit is fucking low class.

There is a line. A limit. I actually expected an USAF F-16 to come and drop cluster bombs on that "church".

Oh my, look at all the love! :rolleyes:
I take it, everybody is guilty until proven innocent in your world.
(You sound like some kind of demented prosecuting attorney. Nancy Grace perhaps? )

There may be a few who are doing things that are not right, but to condemn the entire group because of them is insane. That is much like looking at the United States from abroad and saying, 'Those people are all murders!', after reading an article in the paper about people getting shot buy some lone gun man.
 
So someone that has never actually set foot in the YFZ Ranch kissing a young bride some 15 years ago makes the entire religion guilty?? You have no idea what Ron Paul and this campaign stands for apparently.

I was wondering what that was supposed to be proof of.
It does not seem to show any proof of age, though he looks like a rather young man.
The girls seems to be an active participant, and does not look like she is being "forced".
It also does not show her age.
Little can be proved from this photo.

What is the point again?
 
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