Conspiracy

[Sandra]

I have a few ideas
either apply for a mod job and ban everyone you dont like so that you can have your own forum Utopia
or start a new forum where what you consider conspiracy is banned from any discussion

Ween't you complaining about me doing what you're doing? And you're brand new here.

 

[ClayTrainor]

My point is that as soon as you start talking about conspiracies, everyone including me will think you're nuts and stop listening.

So you're as close-minded as the average American?

If you talk about more tangible things, people will listen.

I agree, but it's kind of hard when the FED is participating in a full-blown conspiracy against the economy.

What's the point of talking of no one listens? (please feel free to answer that, Truth Warrior)

I hear you, and agree with what you're saying to an extent... but i've managed to convert lots of people to my views, and my entire family is slowly coming around. Evidence > a nice-sounding argument. It's all about how you present the case. You have to lead them to these positions with logical discourse, not random claims.

Example 1: "The FED is ruling the world" (Obviously people will be turned off by this)

Example 2: "The FED is the reason the dollar has dropped to the price of gold significantly in the last 30 years. They are basically allowed to print as much money as they want, and no one can even investigate or audit them. When you increase the supply of something, the value of it drops. The FED is increasing our money supply constantly, therefore devaluing our wealth" (it's hard to deny basic logic)

Both of the above are examples of a conspiracy. If you simply ignore things that sound 'crazy', then you will never have a clue about what's going on unless someone else explains them to you.

 

[tremendoustie]

I tend to be more on the side of "government doesn't work" as a reason to oppose big government.

As opposed to "a central group of people have things working so good that nobody can catch them".

+1

All the evidence indicates government is incompetant. Way too incompetant to pull of some of the things people here give them credit for. They're bumbling, dishonest, and corrupt fools, not evil masterminds.

 

[ClayTrainor]

+1

All the evidence indicates government is incompetant. Way too incompetant to pull of some of the things people here give them credit for. They're bumbling, dishonest, and corrupt fools, not evil masterminds.

So that's why we can't investigate the FED? They're not criminals, they're just incompetent by printing money?

I think it's very obvious that the FED and Political officials are Conspiring against the free-market, if you actually adhere to the REAL definition of "Conspiracy" not the version that the Media has defined for you!

 

[dannno]

Suppose you're talking to someone who's never heard any of this. Which of the following two statements do you think is more likely to receive a positive response:

A. The bankers are part of the New World Order. They've been secretly controlling world politics for a century, and they're making themselves super-rich in the process.

B. The banking system is unfair, because there is no oversight of the Federal Reserve. They're devaluing the dollar, and making your savings worth less.

I tell them about B first, then if they understand what I am saying they will wonder why such benevolent people in government are allowing that to happen. They will ask themselves why I am so much smarter than politicians and the media? Shouldn't they be looking out for our best interests?

That's when I tell them about A, and I tie it in with special interests and corporatism. If you don't tell people about A, then they won't get it unless they already subscribe to libertarian philosophy.

You are acting like you can only convince people one way or the other. You don't understand that a full understanding requires a full knowledge of A and B.

 

[dannno]

But, I find it laughable that a secret group of elite are in some dark castle telling guys like Obama what to do. Obama is just so stupid that he actually thinks what he's doing is good.

Uhhh, do you know who is in Obama's cabinet by any chance?!?! C'mon man...

Like everyone else in power the bankers,, Bilderberg group, and the Trilateral Council are all trying to play everyone else so that they gain more power. They are all way to selfish to all be working together. Everyone in power has an agenda, but all of their agendas are not the same.

OK, find out who is behind the Bilderberg Group, Trilateral Council and CFR and you will begin to see that the agenda is much more similar

 

[tremendoustie]

So that's why we can't investigate the FED? They're not criminals, they're just incompetent by printing money (counterfeit)?

I think it's very obvious that the FED and Political officials are Conspiring against the free-market, if you actually adhere to the REAL definition of "Conspiracy" not the version that the Media has defined for you!

No no, they're definitely criminals.

What you said here:

Example 2: "The FED is the reason the dollar has dropped to the price of gold significantly in the last 30 years. They are basically allowed to print as much money as they want, and no one can even investigate or audit them. When you increase the supply of something, the value of it drops. The FED is increasing our money supply constantly, therefore devaluing our wealth"

Is exactly right.

A secret plan to take over the world? I don't know, or really care. They're ripping us off.

I think the idea of us being ripped off is a lot more factually based, and a lot more likely to get someone to listen, than conjecturing about a secret plan for a NWO.

I guess if you want to call it a conspiracy you can, although I wouldn't, especially since people tend to stop listening at that point.

I'd call it corruption and corpratism.

 

[Xenophage]

Anybody else tired of conspiracy? I mean...is it really worth talking about Rothschilds and Rockefellers as some pacifying notion that you know, people want to control others. I want to control others...I want no government and the right to freely associate. It seems counterproductive to "expose" others who have the same driving force that I have.

You're confusing "no control" and "control." You want freedom from control, and you're willing to fight violently for it. I don't want to control anybody, and most of all I don't want anyone to control me.

Anyway... I'm tired of conspiracy theories because they're mostly bullshit based on assumptions and inferences, and they completely miss the real danger to our liberty, which is out in the open and plain for all to see. There is nothing hidden or secretive about the evil we face. Nobody even makes an effort to conceal it. Its staring you down in the face every morning on the news whenever the talking heads extol the virtues of collectivism and authoritarianism. The real conspiracy is just called "government." The real behind-the-scenes men are just called "politicians."

The only weapon that we can use or that can be used against us is philosophy.

 

[Truth Warrior]

[SIZE=+2]A CHRONOLOGICAL HISTORY OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]by D.L. Cuddy, Ph.D.[/FONT] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]http://www.constitution.org/col/cuddy_nwo.htm[/SIZE]​

 

[tremendoustie]

I tell them about B first, then if they understand what I am saying they will wonder why such benevolent people in government are allowing that to happen. They will ask themselves why I am so much smarter than politicians and the media? Shouldn't they be looking out for our best interests?

That's when I tell them about A, and I tie it in with special interests and corporatism. If you don't tell people about A, then they won't get it unless they already subscribe to libertarian philosophy.

You are acting like you can only convince people one way or the other. You don't understand that a full understanding requires a full knowledge of A and B.

People can be corrupt and greedy without being part of a secret plan to take over the world. Someone you're talking to is probably going to be a lot more quick to accept the theory of greedy corrupt people, of whom we know many, than a secret plan to take over the world.

You just risk discrediting yourself, and therefore our message, for no good reason.

It's like a pickpocket is in the process of taking the wallet out of our pocket, and we've got to stand around theorizing about the guy's 20 year plan to start a mafia group and take over the city. Let's get everyone to notice and stop the pickpocket. If we can do that, he sure as heck won't be taking over the city.

A lot more people will disagree with these NWO conspiracies than will disagree that we're being robbed. We need all these people to stop the robbery now, and so that should be our message -- you're getting robbed! Getting everyone to stop the robbery is the best way to stop the NWO, if it exists, anyway. But if we insist on promoting NWO conspiracy theories, they're more likely to be able to discredit us, and more likely to get away with the theft.

 

[Truth Warrior]

People can be corrupt and greedy without being part of a secret plan to take over the world. Someone you're talking to is probably going to be a lot more quick to accept the theory of greedy corrupt people, of whom we know many, than a secret plan to take over the world.

You just risk discrediting yourself, and therefore our message, for no good reason.

Why can't there be BOTH? Those who are AND those who are not. C'mon!!!

 

[Xenophage]

[SIZE=+2]A CHRONOLOGICAL HISTORY OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]by D.L. Cuddy, Ph.D.[/FONT] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]http://www.constitution.org/col/cuddy_nwo.htm[/SIZE]​

If you want to defeat the NWO, you don't need to expose any conspiracies. You need to win the philosophic argument. You need to show that the NWO is bad for the human race, and bad for individuals. If you're focused on exposing conspiracies, you're wasting your time and letting them win.

There so much evil in plain sight, why do you feel the need to go snooping around dark corners for even more of it? Your hands ought to be full with the obvious.

Regardless, evil only takes a few fundamental forms. Attack the fundamentals, and you attack all of it: even the evil you can't see.

Collectivism, Mysticism, and Altruism are the prime evils.

 

[tremendoustie]

There so much evil in plain sight, why do you feel the need to go snooping around dark corners for even more of it? Your hands ought to be full with the obvious.

Regardless, evil only takes a few fundamental forms. Attack the fundamentals, and you attack all of it: even the evil you can't see.

This! If we are free, there will be none of these conspiracies anyway. Let's just fight for freedom, and the rest will take care of itself. As I say, you don't have to determine the thief's 20 year plan before you get him out of your kitchen.

 

[Truth Warrior]

If you want to defeat the NWO, you don't need to expose any conspiracies. You need to win the philosophic argument. You need to show that the NWO is bad for the human race, and bad for individuals. If you're focused on exposing conspiracies, you're wasting your time and letting them win.

There so much evil in plain sight, why do you feel the need to go snooping around dark corners for even more of it? Your hands ought to be full with the obvious.

Regardless, evil only takes a few fundamental forms. Attack the fundamentals, and you attack all of it: even the evil you can't see.

Collectivism, Mysticism, and Altruism are the prime evils.

Church AND State are my chosen two. You can handle the rest of them. Or not.

 

[amonasro]

Frankly, it's easy to label RP supporters as conspiracy loons because we get a lot of our news from secondary and sometimes unreliable sources. I don't necessarily, but it gets posted here and subsequently associated with us. I think, in general, we keep the conspiracy discussion to a dull roar thanks to Hot Topics and skeptical, articulate forum members. During the election cycle there was much less conspiracy talk, I have to admit. Now I think we are just bored

We must be aware of the nuts who live in a conspiracy bubble, judge every bit of news through a conspiratorial lens, and think they are better qualified to report what happens in the world when, in reality, they have very little interaction with it. Internet communities seem to form up around certain conspiracies and they feed off each other, it's kind of a vicious cycle.

We must be ultra skeptical about any conspiracy-related discussion, here or anywhere else.

 

[amonasro]

Just to clarity, I don't think NWO is a false idea, I just think people associate it with a Hollywood-style plot to overtake the world. It does sound pretty "Hollywood" when you think about it, I can understand peoples' hesitation with swallowing the whole pill at once.

Personally I see it as a bunch of greedy, power hungry politicians, bankers and world leaders. It's not necessarily a plot per se, it's just a consolidation of power manifested by humans' tendency to be self destructive to further their own selfish ends.

 

[Xenophage]

Church AND State are my chosen two. You can handle the rest of them. Or not.

I think "Church and State" mostly sums up Collectivism, Mysticism, and Altruism.

 

[Truth Warrior]

I think "Church and State" mostly sums up Collectivism, Mysticism, and Altruism.

There ya go.

 

[ClayTrainor]

No no, they're definitely criminals.

What you said here:



Is exactly right.

A secret plan to take over the world? I don't know, or really care. They're ripping us off.

Good point, that's all that really matters and i agree.

I think the idea of us being ripped off is a lot more factually based, and a lot more likely to get someone to listen, than conjecturing about a secret plan for a NWO.

Agreed, but i don't think it's "ridiculous" to discuss the motives behind some of these actions. I'd hate to see 'conspirators' get away with some of the worst crimes against humanity, if there is any truth to the NWO, and i personally believe there is.

 

[futureleft]

Agreed, but i don't think it's "ridiculous" to discuss the motives behind some of these actions.

No, but it is ridiculous.