Conservatives Revisit Third Party

[Karrl]

From Fox News no less!

The same conservative Christian activist who called a meeting last fall to discuss backing a third-party candidate to counter a possible Rudy Giuliani candidacy is revisiting the idea as Sen. John McCain closes in on the Republican presidential nomination.

Fischer also volunteered an alternative scenario: supporting the nominee of the fledgling Constitution Party.

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Feb13/0,4670,EvangelicalsThirdParty,00.html

 

[Black Jake]

Keep in mind that the pro-Iraq "War" "Conservatives" can NOT get it through their skulls that it was unconstitutional, unprovoked (and therefore unChristian), down-right Wilsonian, and that Ron Paul is strong on national defense. They are too invested in interventionism. Literally. Plus they're scared we'll look bad if we admit the mistake and repent of it. A typical attitude of self-righteous people.

 

[The Proservative]

Also keep in mind the source of the news...now Fox is all the sudden our friend? They want to downplay Ron Paul and his/our possible third party should it be built.

I can guarantee that the ONLY third party Ron will consider, if any at all, will be one that is HIS party. His experience with Libertarians in 1988 is the reason he dropped out of politics all together, and left a major bad taste in his mouth. They treated him like crap...period.

We build a movement around ALL his policies, and support him unwaveringly. And, and if the time comes he decides enough is enough with the Rep party, we've got a ready made party raring to go, just for him, not having to waiver in any of his positions.

 

[RforRevolution]

Pro-Iraq/war "Conservatives" is an oxymoron.

 

[Karrl]

Proservative

Proservative said: "We build a movement around ALL his policies, and support him unwaveringly. And, and if the time comes he decides enough is enough with the Rep party, we've got a ready made party raring to go, just for him, not having to waiver in any of his positions."

This is what I also have thought about. I question whether he has/can really be effective in his Congressional seat. Year after year he speaks to congress and tirelessly submits his legislation....and it simply is ignored. I do not question his effort the slightest bit!

I have to add this.....

Their are two separate tracks at work. Grassroots and the RonPaul2008 campaign. This may seem too obvious to state but I constantly see people talking about this and that and do not make the distinction.

Party=political organization
Grassroots=social organization

When it comes to the political organization, there is a pre-existing structure; an organization to plug into.

When it comes to the grassroots organization, there is individual initiative and the organization must be created.

For the most part, when looking at how the work is accomplished...comparatively, there is two very different work processes. Very different people are attracted to each kind of work.

As evidenced by what has taken place during this campaign, there is a separation that needs to be bridged. This is an issue that both organizations should be working on.

Politically---I like the idea of a third party best. With Ron Paul declaring this possibility dead, IMO it is not a viable alternative until Ron Paul is willing to make it one. The election could change his mind about it.

I also like the idea of being prepared to restore the Republican Party after it gets destroyed by the election.

As for myself, I have no idea about the political machinations as regards either of the above. My interest would be with the grassroots effort and developing its organization.

 

[MrZach]

This isn't about a Ron Paul 3rd Party run though... He won't do it, and for VERY good reason - he'd be made the scapegoat of the Republican party not taking the White House in November.

I personally don't see this election as the last stand for freedom. I'm not so fatalistic about things. I'm not going to freak out of Ron Paul isn't elected or "gives up" on any realistic plans to take the White House... I see this as a long term movement that isn't going to happen over night (our nation didn't decline over night) and I think that every decision we make should be considered in the long term and not just in the here and now. I think Ron Paul is certainly doing that, and it would help if more people were doing that...

...for example, maybe if our government had done that a few times in the last couple of years - thought about the long term - we wouldn't be in a lot of the messed up situations we're in now... Apparently it hasn't learned its lesson though.... stimulus package, bring it! =o/

 

[MrZach]

In response to Karrl - Ron Paul has had TREMENDOUS effect in his congressional seat. He does a lot more as a congressman than just make speeches and vote for or against bills! Look into his record a little more. You'll see that he is EXTREMELY effective and accomplishing a LOT for liberty.

 

[Karrl]

Mr Zach

I was referring to political effect. I surely know how much he has accomplished for freedom and liberty.

I agree. It is past the point where people should be thinking long term! I feel that the grassroots has lost supporters due to this. There are many people who have touted that its not just about Ron Paul, its the message. Those who are true to this remain.

People use the phrase grassroots organization. IMO The grass roots is mostly individual initiative as the organization part got left out (it takes time and things did happen quickly). I believe this to be partly responsible for the less than stellar co-operation between the grass roots and the Ron Paul campaign people.

So there are two long term movements that need to be developed. The Political and the Grassroots.

 

[goRPaul]

Democrats who are against the war will be looking for a third-party/independent candidate as well.

 

[MrZach]

Karrl

Oh - yeah, I was speaking more along the lines of things he's done to use his position as a congressman to help people - like all the work he's done for Vetrans's for example... (from the back of a slim-jim) obtaining medals for hundreds of deserving veterans, aided thousands of veterans with health care and pensions problems with the government, etc.).

I was just suggesting that one's role as a congressman entails many other "jobs" that aren't as recognized but are equally as important and as official as the work that gets done on the floor of the House. There are so many things that need to be done, and it are the job of congressmen to do, that get no attention or glory. Ron Paul is a *very* hard working congressman, I've heard so many stories of him helping individuals through his role as a congressman. That is why I was saying to investigate his resumé a but more... TOTALLY not a dis on you - more of an open ended suggestion for anyone who is reading this and has the idea that Ron Paul doesn't get anything done in congress except create "no" protest votes on official records and make speeches that no one in congress listens to...

 

[aksmith]

In response to Karrl - Ron Paul has had TREMENDOUS effect in his congressional seat. He does a lot more as a congressman than just make speeches and vote for or against bills! Look into his record a little more. You'll see that he is EXTREMELY effective and accomplishing a LOT for liberty.

On what planet? He is one of the more ineffective congressmen who has ever existed. He has probably not introduced one piece of legislation in 20 years that ever got passed. And he is constantly ignored by the media to the point that nobody but us ever knew who he was.

My belief is that he's the best congressman we've had in my lifetime. But "effective" means something else entirely. If you can't build a coalition for freedom and limited constitutional government, then you haven't been effective in any meaningful way. The most effective thing he's ever done is this campaign. And he's now thrown in the towel on it and decided he's happy being a congressman who gets nothing done. I find that disappointing and I hope he decides to run as an independent and I'll be waiting with my checkbook open.

 

[moshe kerr]

http://www.whale.to/cancer/hoxsey.html
http://www.quantumbalancing.com/bhc.htm
big government through central banks and central medicine keeps people in the dark and victims to government exploitation like a imperialist power exploits a conquored countries natives. Its internationalism today a nation no more respects the interests of its own citizen than it does conquored countries sheeples its all the same. that's the new world order that we shall either accept our role as modern serfs or we shall struggle to take our country back.

 

[The Proservative]

Pro-Iraq/war "Conservatives" is an oxymoron.

We Proservatives are against the Iraq war.

 

[The Proservative]

As evidenced by what has taken place during this campaign, there is a separation that needs to be bridged. This is an issue that both organizations should be working on.

This is EXACTLY what we're trying to do with the Proservative movement. It's not a "party" at the moment (we'll, in the political sense ), and I'll stick to the adage "We'll cross that bridge when we get there" when we talk about actually starting a political party.

I am just taking the position that we CANNOT be broken up as a Revolution, no matter what happens: no matter what party you are currently associated with, feelings on Ron Paul's presidential run, etc.

There are vultures here now, and many more on the way, to pick apart the Ron Paul Revolution one by one, slowly but surely. It's time to at least come in from the rain, and built a bit of shelter. Then, of course we can venture out again, but at least you know we have a home, a proper name, that will stand the test of time, no matter what gets thrown our way.

 

[RforRevolution]

^^I like the idea of a Proservative movement.

 

[therealjjj77]

Keep in mind that the pro-Iraq "War" "Conservatives" can NOT get it through their skulls that it was unconstitutional, unprovoked (and therefore unChristian), down-right Wilsonian, and that Ron Paul is strong on national defense. They are too invested in interventionism. Literally. Plus they're scared we'll look bad if we admit the mistake and repent of it. A typical attitude of self-righteous people.

Making sweeping generalizations does not further anything. Going and talking to them yourself does.