Congressman Paul Introduces Bill for Fuel Efficient Cars

[torchbearer]

So how does a tax credit work? It's part of your tax return at the end of the year? People who didn't pay more than 2k in taxes wouldn't be eligible for this?

A tax credit comes off of the money you owe.
So if you don't owe taxes, it does you no good.

 

[specsaregood]

So how does a tax credit work? It's part of your tax return at the end of the year? People who didn't pay more than 2k in taxes wouldn't be eligible for this?

In short, yes. They count as taxes-paid. More valuable than tax-deductions actually. If you had owed/paid only 2k in taxes for the year, you would get it all back.

 

[Danke]

So how does a tax credit work? It's part of your tax return at the end of the year? People who didn't pay more than 2k in taxes wouldn't be eligible for this?

If you are not a taxpayer (income tax) then no benefit. Most of us are not liable for the income tax, so no benefit, just the opposite, higher inflation tax.

 

[Kraig]

A tax credit comes off of the money you owe.
So if you don't owe taxes, it does you no good.

So then how does one owe taxes when they are taking it out of your check? I know it happens, but it seems like it would be pretty rare outside of people who file incorrectly or run a buisness. Fuck I know shit about taxes, I have only filed once and I didn't even get the money back assumingly because I did something wrong. This doesn't sound that bad anymore though, thanks for explaining it.

 

[specsaregood]

So then how does one owe taxes when they are taking it out of your check? I know it happens, but it seems like it would be pretty rare outside of people who file incorrectly or run a buisness. Fuck I know shit about taxes, I have only filed once and I didn't even get the money back assumingly because I did something wrong. This doesn't sound that bad anymore though, thanks for explaining it.

The taxes taken out of your check are included in what torch was saying in "owed". So if your employer took out 4k worth of taxes and you had this tax credit you would get at least 2k back when you file your return.

 

[torchbearer]

So then how does one owe taxes when they are taking it out of your check? I know it happens, but it seems like it would be pretty rare outside of people who file incorrectly or run a buisness. Fuck I know shit about taxes, I have only filed once and I didn't even get the money back assumingly because I did something wrong. This doesn't sound that bad anymore though, thanks for explaining it.

The money they withhold is the money you will owe assuming your dependents and deductions don't adjust anything at the time of filing.
SO if your employer witheld $2000 on behalf of the federal government and you get $5000 in tax credit from buying a eco friendly car, you will get your $2000 back from the government. It is a return of your money.
Isn't that so evil?

Yeah- they shouldn't take it to begin with, but now you have another way to tell the government you don't owe them that money.

 

[specsaregood]

It is a return of your money.
Isn't that so evil?

Yeah- they shouldn't take it to begin with, but now you have another way to tell the government you don't owe them that money.

Not to go offtopic with theoretical discussions but...
We all know RP loves tax credits and he is pro-life....
If somebody proposed a bill to give a tax credit for getting an abortion, do you think RP would vote for it?

 

[Danke]

The money they withhold is the money you will owe assuming your dependents and deductions don't adjust anything at the time of filing.
SO if your employer witheld $2000 on behalf of the federal government and you get $5000 in tax credit from buying a eco friendly car, you will get your $2000 back from the government. It is a return of your money.
Isn't that so evil?

Yeah- they shouldn't take it to begin with, but now you have another way to tell the government you don't owe them that money.

You are disregarding FICA. You can have many exemptions and have no withholding except FICA taxes.

 

[torchbearer]

Not to go offtopic with theoretical discussions but...
We all know RP loves tax credits and he is pro-life....
If somebody proposed a bill to give a tax credit for getting an abortion, do you think RP would vote for it?

no. you'd be giving incentives for people to kill their babies.
the credit should be the result of a positive action, not a negative.
Like for every crack rock you sell to a 5 year old you get a $100 Tax credit. makes no sense.

It would have to be something like- for every new tree you plant on your property you get a $100 credit.
Not because it is right to use people's money to extort their behavior, but because it was their money to begin with, but you can't end the income tax because not enough congressmen support your bill so you try other ways to get people relief.

 

[torchbearer]

You are disregarding FICA. You can have many exemptions and have no withholding except FICA taxes.

how many people know and do this?
I know a good bit about taxes and I have no idea what you are talking about.
I just don't pay shit.
But i'm certain everyone who works for a 'law abiding' employer has 0-2 exemptions and are suffering from withholdings.

 

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

Not to go offtopic with theoretical discussions but...
We all know RP loves tax credits and he is pro-life....
If somebody proposed a bill to give a tax credit for getting an abortion, do you think RP would vote for it?

Rock and a hard place for Paul.

 

[specsaregood]

no. you'd be giving incentives for people to kill their babies.
the credit should be the result of a positive action, not a negative.
Like for every crack rock you sell to a 5 year old you get a $100 Tax credit. makes no sense.

But who decides what is positive and what is negative? I know people that would argue that the world is overpopulated and increasing abortions is a positive thing. (not my opinion)

Although I guess you sort of addressed this with:

Not because it is right to use people's money to extort their behavior, but because it was their money to begin with, but you can't end the income tax because not enough congressmen support your bill so you try other ways to get people relief.

It would have to be something like- for every new tree you plant on your property you get a $100 credit.

I would totally support that. I'd cut all the trees down on my property just to plant more!

 

[Danke]

how many people know and do this?
I know a good bit about taxes and I have no idea what you are talking about.
I just don't pay shit.
But i'm certain everyone who works for a 'law abiding' employer has 0-2 exemptions and are suffering from withholdings.

How many people? I really don't know.

There are many ways to tackle the income tax withholding issue.

I work for a big corporation, so I have chosen to withhold over 50 on my W-4 (effectively no withholdings except FICA).

But like I said, there are many ways to address this issue, some have either sued or threatened to sue their "employer" and stopped them from any withholdings, including FICA.

 

[torchbearer]

But who decides what is positive and what is negative? I know people that would argue that the world is overpopulated and increasing abortions is a positive thing. (not my opinion)

Although I guess you sort of addressed this with:



I would totally support that. I'd cut all the trees down on my property just to plant more!

the individual decides what is positive. I assume Paul would not want to give someone something (Even their own money) to kill their baby.
If someone wants to do that for other reasons outside government influences... that may be a different issue.
But the government giving credits for abortions is akin to china mandating them.
That is why I say so many times, the federal government shouldn't be involved in this issue. It is best governed close to the family.

 

[devil21]

Welfare is also money going to the people's hands. Realistically all tax money eventually ends up in "the people's hands", it's just a matter of which people.

But welfare is taking someone else's money when you didn't pay into the system in the first place. Taking a tax break is getting back your own money (or keeping it in your pocket, depending on your individual tax situation).

I think the bill is fine. Any tax breaks are a good start, especially with the tax machine in the Oval Office. No one is forcing anyone to drive a gas guzzler. If you want the tax break then buy a new more fuel efficient car. The bill doesn't mandate a particular type of car. It appears to only specify a 20% higher gas mileage as the trigger for the tax break. If you want your gas guzzler, keep your gas guzzler. That's freedom of choice right there. Just don't expect a tax break for driving the gas guzzler. I'm sure Obama will be happy to apply that $2000 to universal health care or a new welfare program for illegal immigrants if you don't want it back.

And rest assured that no one in Congress but Ron Paul will be offering you a tax credit of any sort over the next 4 to 8 years, so take it where you can get it.

 

[Immortal Technique]

If you can't get rid of the income tax, at least find ways to give people there money back.
This seems like a bill the dems will support.
If Paul gets two bills on the floor for a successful vote, he ascends from pariah to nirvana.

LMAO, best post ive seen in a while

 

[torchbearer]

LMAO, best post ive seen in a while

i think it should be corrected to 'from pariah to Brahmin" to be more correct. though i think people understand the idea either way.

 

[Bossobass]

Seriously, we're about to have a massive cap and trade scheme evoked, Ron Paul gives them the alternative of lowering taxes and it goes over half the people on this forum's head!! WTF??

Cap and trade, in other words, is a scheme to redistribute income and wealth -- but in a very curious way. It takes from the working class and gives to the affluent; takes from Miami, Ohio, and gives to Miami, Florida; and takes from an industrial America that is already struggling and gives to rich Silicon Valley and Wall Street "green tech" investors who know how to leverage the political class.

CBO estimates a trillion dollars over the first decade. We all know the estimates are BS. This scheme will double the income tax revenues.

RP is throwing a wrench into this jack off scheme and this thread rambles on incoherently about everything but the point, except for Danno, who gets it right.

Bosso

 

[Austin]

I don't like this bill. It is essentially a subsidy and it will inevitably have adverse effects on some portion of the market.

That said, at least it is a tax break... It's tolerable, but I would have preferred Dr. Paul not introduced this bill at all...

 

[nobody's_hero]

Interesting.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but this kind of reminds me of the $8K tax credit you can get if you are a first-time home-buyer.

Couple of problems with that:

1. Most of the people who couldn't afford the $200,000 house will not suddenly be able to afford it if they now only have to pay $192,000 for it.

2. It really benefits the banks, and few others. Homes still hanging on at those prices aren't going to sell in this market anyway. Instead of asset liquidation, the government supposedly has to step in and make the garbage more enticing, with money it doesn't have. Our government is flat broke, in case you haven't gotten the memo.

3. There is nothing to benefit the people who rent, with the knowledge that they cannot undertake the fiscal suicide of purchasing a home at this time. No rewards for people who manage their money wisely. Typical government work, no doubt.

There are probably countless other issues that I have with the housing tax credit.

Apply that to the auto industry, and there you have it.


Still, this is only the second issue I have with Ron Paul. It is nothing that puts any nails in the coffin for my support, for sure—just something I would try to find alternatives to, if I were in his position.