Congressman Paul Introduces Bill for Fuel Efficient Cars

[dannno]

When our government is already $11 trillion in debt, it is. When the projected budget deficit is already $1.8 trillion per year, it is.

Again, he didn't vote for the spending. It can't be blamed on him. He always votes for tax breaks and never votes for spending increases. That is precisely what he has always said. Ron Paul is still being principled whether you think so or not.

When the tax code is being used to control people, it is.

Giving people the option to LOWER their taxes is NOT controlling people. Raising taxes is controlling people.

The Paul haters in this thread need to sit back and think about this thing for a minute, because I am hearing a ridiculous amount of irrationality.

As is the case with every government economic intervention, the downside lies in the things that don't happen.

Ya, like people polluting my fucking air.

 

[LibForestPaul]

This is a horrible bill. I certainly will make Dr Paul aware of my pov. However, it is up to his district to lean on him.

 

[dannno]

Who is doing the favoring? The government. The government favoring companies is pretty much the definition of corporatism. If these companies really had the most efficient product they would not need the government to provide incentives for people to buy it.

No, you're wrong, the government is currently subsidizing OIL both directly and through our foreign policy (1 Trillion/Year) which is why people are not buying more efficient cars!!! This is a tax break to offset the government's recklessness.

I don't need to hear Paul explain it. I'm fully capable of thinking for myself.

Try thinking harder

 

[dannno]

This is a horrible bill. I certainly will make Dr Paul aware of my pov. However, it is up to his district to lean on him.

How is giving people tax breaks bad??? He isn't increasing spending, he has never advocated it..

Will somebody please explain their position against Paul logically?? Please??

 

[brandon]

We might as well have the government give tax credits for all the other things that politicians deem to be "good" as well.

Like newer computers. Everyone can benefit from a new more powerful computer. Maybe the government should offer $500 tax credits to everyone who upgrades to a new computer.

And bicycles too. $100 to everyone who gets a new bike.

Might as well have the government pay us to recycle our aluminum cans too. I'm sure the fedgov can afford to give every American 1 cent for each soda can they recycle. They have the money, right?

Then we will have all these great things all thanks to the government@!!!

 

[axiomata]

He uses the same logic to justify this as he does earmarks to his district.

 

[brandon]

//

 

[torchbearer]

This sounds like some crap a Dem would write. That's not why I support Ron Paul.

Cutting taxes without a corresponding cut in spending is pointless. Every single dollar the government spends gets paid for by the American people, one way or another. Some people think you can reduce the size of government by "starving the beast", but that clearly doesn't work. The budget deficit is already $1.8 trillion. The beast cannot be starved. They'll just keep borrowing and printing.

Plus, using the tax code to provide incentives for people to do things that they wouldn't otherwise do flies in the face of free market economics. If people want more fuel efficiency, they'll buy more fuel efficiency. If the government induces us to spend more money on fuel efficiency than we otherwise would, then we're not spending that money somewhere else. Somebody else is NOT getting a job because we're spending money on something that we wouldn't have otherwise bought.

Ron Paul even had a bill to exclude a server's tips from being included in income taxes. Does this make him a sell-out to the message because the bill wasn't to eliminate all taxes?

 

[dannno]

We might as well have the government give tax credits for all the other things that politicians deem to be "good" as well.

Like newer computers. Everyone can benefit from a new more powerful computer. Maybe the government should offer $500 tax credits to everyone who upgrades to a new computer.

Um, you don't "get" the environment, do you?

Did you actually watch the Reagan debates where Paul explained his position on property rights and the environment? Have you heard him say he thinks that oil could be taxed because it is a form of pollution that goes against property rights??

And bicycles too. $100 to everyone who gets a new bike.

Sounds GREAT as long as it is a tax break and not a subsidy!! Why the hell should bicycles be taxed?? Are you getting it yet??

Might as well have the government pay us to recycle our aluminum cans too. I'm sure the fedgov can afford to give every American 1 cent for each soda can they recycle. They have the money, right?

Then we will have all these great things all thanks to the government@!!!

If it's a tax break, then yes, I agree wholeheartedly.




This is the most amazingly backwards thread in RPF history. People arguing FOR taxes!! I never thought I would see the day

 

[brandon]

No one is arguing for taxes or against property rights. Not sure where you're getting that from.

 

[dannno]

No one is arguing for taxes or against property rights. Not sure where you're getting that from.

Your response a few posts above indicated that you thought this was a subsidy when it was in fact a tax break. Big difference. Ron Paul advocates tax breaks, and fights STRONGLY against subsidies and spending. There is a reason for this.

Ron Paul also says that the Federal Government can intervene in cases where property rights are being threatened, therefore they can take action against polluters by taxing pollution. In this case, he is giving tax breaks to people who pollute less, similar net effect and still principled Ron Paul.

Corporatism existed back in the 1800s when industrial companies colluded with the government so that they could pollute. The government protected them from being sued by putting up lax regulations. Ron Paul said that at the Reagan debates as well.

What it comes down to is that everything he is doing is principled based upon has past speeches and writings. If you aren't familiar with his speeches and writings, then I would imagine you might be surprised by these actions.

 

[Danke]

Too bad Ron Paul really doesn't understand the Income Tax. He is trying to attack it on a practical sense, but could do so much more good if he went to the fundamentals.

The Income Tax is an excise tax. If you are not involved it the activity, you are not liable for the tax. It is a tax for the privileged of doing business with the government. ex. tips from work at a private businesses are not taxable. That is just misreading the code by Ron Paul.

Since we currently have legal tender laws, the more deductions and credits, just adds to the burden of those who receive our pay in FRNs, and have investments and savings denominated in FRNs.

It increases the inflation tax.

 

[silverhawks]

And its not like this bill advances an agenda at all.

Obama calls for 'clean energy' nation (Mar 2008)

Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) on Monday called reducing the nation’s energy consumption “the great test of our time” and proposed billions of dollars in subsidies for business and consumers to encourage a “clean energy “ future.

“We can do this,” he vowed in Michigan, the nation’s car capital, promising to spend $150 billion over 10 years on the effort.

The plans include a $7,000 tax credit to drivers who buy advanced-technology vehicles and $4 billion in direct assistance to Detroit automakers to help them build hybrid vehicles in the U.S.

McCain (and Obama Too?) Embraces the Chevy Volt

Automotive News reports that, at a recent GM facility visit, Republican White House hopeful John McCain took a spin in a concept plug-in hybrid electric Chevrolet Volt. He then told a group of about 300 GM Detroit Technical Center employees, "I will do everything in my power to make sure this breakthrough has every chance of success and that we will make sure American citizens understand what's happening here." He also pledged to give up to $5000 in tax credits to initial buyers to make the Volt more affordable. According to the report, GM CEO Rick Wagoner said that Democratic rival Presidential candidate-to-be Barack Obama also favors tax incentives for first buyers.

Chevy Volt inspires financial vows from Barack Obama (August 2008)

The Michigan economy has struggled for a while now with a declining auto industry and Barack Obama knows that. That’s why he’s making some bold promises to support the auto industry with government loans and consumer tax credits, and he mentioned the Chevy Volt by name.

Obama's sensible fuel fix (April 2009)

Obama proposes a specific remedy: a law that would mandate flex-fuel engines in automobiles in order to break the oil monopoly, as Brazil has done. Letting consumers choose or blend the two fuels exerts downward price pressure and is good for the economy. Extra cost? US$100 a model.

Obama on Chevy Volt: Rebuff or Reality Check? (April 2009)

Analysts have not been saying that the Volt -- or any of the plug-in vehicles -- will be profit centers for the auto companies right away. The federal government realizes this, and that's why it is offering a $7,500 incentive to consumers, as well as substantial stimulus money towards making the grid more PHEV friendly.

If this bill had been put to the House by ANY other member of Congress, I'd be checking to see whether they were invested in biofuels or automobiles by now.

 

[NinjaPirate]

This thread is chock-full of stupid.

 

[krazy kaju]

It's inappropriate to use the tax code as a means of influencing people.

So you want to pay higher taxes?

 

[brandon]

Oh snap! I have a great idea!

So, I've been wanting to get a motorcycle for a couple years now. And if this bill passes I can get one for free!

I will just go buy some old beat up car for $2000. Then I will trade it in for a used motorcycle that costs $2000 and get my $2000 of free government money!

 

[dannno]

Oh snap! I have a great idea!

So, I've been wanting to get a motorcycle for a couple years now. And if this bill passes I can get one for free!

I will just go buy some old beat up car for $2000. Then I will trade it in for a used motorcycle that costs $2000 and get my $2000 of free government money!

Stop calling it free government money. Jesus Fucking Christ I know you are smarter than that.


And yes, that is a great idea. You will pollute a lot less with your motorcycle and the air on my property and the water in your town will be that much cleaner.

 

[Danke]

Oh snap! I have a great idea!

So, I've been wanting to get a motorcycle for a couple years now. And if this bill passes I can get one for free!

Well, I have been looking for help funding my home of salvation for wayward women. Maybe I could lobby for a tax credit to help me out in my ministry.

 

[brandon]

I just realized how this bill will destroy the used car market.

No car will sell for under $2000. Have an old beat up car that you were planning on selling for $1000? Well you're definitely not going to sell it now if you find out you can get $2000 extra dollars if you trade it in. Or even if you don't want to trade it in yourself, I'm sure you can find someone else who is looking to buy a new car and will gladly buy your $1000 car from you for $2000 just to go and trade it in.

People in the lower class that need to buy cheap cars to get to work will not be able to find them anymore.

Bastiat is rolling in his grave.

 

[Danke]

Stop calling it free government money.

It is government money. That is why it is called a "return."