Confronting Beltway Libertarianism and the Invasion of Left-Libertarians

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August 2, 2016 Tony Canzoner

One does not need to look any further than the Libertarian Party’s presidential nominee to see the sad state of the libertarian movement and the tragic inconsistencies that plague the beltway libertarians of the left.

Yesterday as I was scrolling through Facebook, I stumbled upon a screenshot of a picture that the Libertarian Party itself shared. It read “No more Bushes, Clintons, or Pauls”, with a picture of Rand Paul in the middle. This post was made back in 2015.

Screen-Shot-2016-08-01-at-2.19.51-PM.png


But this year, after Gary Johnson had won the possible support of neocons like Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney, they were more than happy to announce this news publicly, and welcomed them and the rest of the establishment heads of the #NeverTrump movement “into the fold”.

lp-jeb.jpg


This becomes even more ridiculous when you look at the reasons why the Libertarian Party so willingly slandered the Paul family. According to some of their dedicated activists, voters and followers, the reason for this was because Rand was too “socially conservative” on the issues of gay marriage, drug legalization and immigration. When one looks at the history of the libertarian movement and takes a more consistent approach to policy, they discover that the libertarian movement, for most of its lifetime, favored decentralized government (even in the area of marriage and drugs), and some of the most legendary libertarian thinkers (Hoppe, Rothbard, Rockwell etc.) were for stronger border controls as a necessary prerequisite for defending a culture of liberty.

It is believed that by keeping the power over these matters more locally controlled, it would more accurately represent the state of society under private property rule, and would be easier for citizens to manipulate than under the powerful thumb of a highly centralized government. All of this being said, Rand Paul was certainly not above criticism from the perspective of a libertarian purist….however, this was not why he was called out, and this becomes evident when you look at the record of the party’s presidential and vice presidential nominees.

Although Gary Johnson claims to be “fiscally conservative”, the budget and debt in the state of New Mexico went up under his watch. When Gary Johnson left office, he increased the budget from roughly $4 billion to nearly $8 billion, and took the debt from close to $2 billion all the way up to about $5 billion. While Gary Johnson talks a good game about cutting back spending, his record is rather unimpressive.

He has also advocated for continued funding of Planned Parenthood, has pushed for a 30% consumption tax, and has even entertained the idea of basic individual income. Gary Johnson has also called Hillary Clinton a “wonderful public servant”, stated that he thinks we need to stay in the United Nations, called religious liberty and the freedom of association a “black hole”, and advocated for humanitarian wars.

His running mate, Bill Weld, is a lifelong friend of Hillary Clinton, pushed for strict gun control legislation while he was governor, was for Obamacare, was for the Iraq War and the Patriot Act, was for eminent domain, was a co-chair of the CFR, and just recently said that their administration would seek to nominate progressive leftist judges to the Supreme Court. Needless to say, he doesn’t challenge the concept of legislation through the federal courts either. But as long as these candidates want to legalize pot and gay marriage (even if it means further centralizing the government), you won’t here any complaints from the Libertarian Party leadership or your typical beltway leftist libertarian.

When one looks at the most common reasons for attacking Rand Paul and the records of the two governors who are representing the Libertarian Party, it becomes evident that the moral priorities of this class of so called “libertarians” is, to say the least, bizarre. It is more important that you are for legalizing pot using whatever means necessary to appease leftists and get them to join the movement than it is to talk about the difficult questions and positions. As long as you believe in these things, supporting mass murder (Iraq war) and believing in progressive economics is just a minor policy difference.

How did the movement get to this point?

continued...http://libertyhangout.org/2016/08/c...ianism-and-the-invasion-of-left-libertarians/
 
Rand was too “socially conservative” on the issues of gay marriage, drug legalization and immigration.

More and/or open immigration is one of the highest priorities for the establishment, crony corporatists, globalists, neoconservatives and beltway libertarians. It brings people together. Perhaps that is the future of the "Libertarian" Party.
 
Solidarity is an illusion. Even in utopian libertarian ideology, humans mess it up.

Every movement is divided.
 
August 2, 2016 Tony Canzoner

One does not need to look any further than the Libertarian Party’s presidential nominee to see the sad state of the libertarian movement and the tragic inconsistencies that plague the beltway libertarians of the left.

Yesterday as I was scrolling through Facebook, I stumbled upon a screenshot of a picture that the Libertarian Party itself shared. It read “No more Bushes, Clintons, or Pauls”, with a picture of Rand Paul in the middle. This post was made back in 2015.

Screen-Shot-2016-08-01-at-2.19.51-PM.png


But this year, after Gary Johnson had won the possible support of neocons like Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney, they were more than happy to announce this news publicly, and welcomed them and the rest of the establishment heads of the #NeverTrump movement “into the fold”.

lp-jeb.jpg


This becomes even more ridiculous when you look at the reasons why the Libertarian Party so willingly slandered the Paul family. According to some of their dedicated activists, voters and followers, the reason for this was because Rand was too “socially conservative” on the issues of gay marriage, drug legalization and immigration. When one looks at the history of the libertarian movement and takes a more consistent approach to policy, they discover that the libertarian movement, for most of its lifetime, favored decentralized government (even in the area of marriage and drugs), and some of the most legendary libertarian thinkers (Hoppe, Rothbard, Rockwell etc.) were for stronger border controls as a necessary prerequisite for defending a culture of liberty.

It is believed that by keeping the power over these matters more locally controlled, it would more accurately represent the state of society under private property rule, and would be easier for citizens to manipulate than under the powerful thumb of a highly centralized government. All of this being said, Rand Paul was certainly not above criticism from the perspective of a libertarian purist….however, this was not why he was called out, and this becomes evident when you look at the record of the party’s presidential and vice presidential nominees.

Although Gary Johnson claims to be “fiscally conservative”, the budget and debt in the state of New Mexico went up under his watch. When Gary Johnson left office, he increased the budget from roughly $4 billion to nearly $8 billion, and took the debt from close to $2 billion all the way up to about $5 billion. While Gary Johnson talks a good game about cutting back spending, his record is rather unimpressive.

He has also advocated for continued funding of Planned Parenthood, has pushed for a 30% consumption tax, and has even entertained the idea of basic individual income. Gary Johnson has also called Hillary Clinton a “wonderful public servant”, stated that he thinks we need to stay in the United Nations, called religious liberty and the freedom of association a “black hole”, and advocated for humanitarian wars.

His running mate, Bill Weld, is a lifelong friend of Hillary Clinton, pushed for strict gun control legislation while he was governor, was for Obamacare, was for the Iraq War and the Patriot Act, was for eminent domain, was a co-chair of the CFR, and just recently said that their administration would seek to nominate progressive leftist judges to the Supreme Court. Needless to say, he doesn’t challenge the concept of legislation through the federal courts either. But as long as these candidates want to legalize pot and gay marriage (even if it means further centralizing the government), you won’t here any complaints from the Libertarian Party leadership or your typical beltway leftist libertarian.

When one looks at the most common reasons for attacking Rand Paul and the records of the two governors who are representing the Libertarian Party, it becomes evident that the moral priorities of this class of so called “libertarians” is, to say the least, bizarre. It is more important that you are for legalizing pot using whatever means necessary to appease leftists and get them to join the movement than it is to talk about the difficult questions and positions. As long as you believe in these things, supporting mass murder (Iraq war) and believing in progressive economics is just a minor policy difference.

How did the movement get to this point?

continued...http://libertyhangout.org/2016/08/c...ianism-and-the-invasion-of-left-libertarians/

Smell test are issues like Open borders, support for mass immigration, "Blank Slate" view, etc.
 
Yesterday as I was scrolling through Facebook, I stumbled upon a screenshot of a picture that the Libertarian Party itself shared. It read “No more Bushes, Clintons, or Pauls”, with a picture of Rand Paul in the middle. This post was made back in 2015.

There was always an anti-Paul contingent in the Libertarian Party. It manifested itself as support for Johnson over both Ron and Rand.
 
I think this is because there are some people who would more properly be considered libertines than libertarians.

One of the things I say quite often is that liberty comes with responsibility. We have a responsibility to ourselves and to others. Too many people want the right to do whatever they want to do without considering the impact on others. As human beings who live in communities, we are linked together by the fact that we are people with souls. Ron Paul is a man of principle who believes in responsible liberty. That's why he's a doctor. That's why he went into the military. That's why he served in Congress. He owns his liberty and his responsibility.

I think the Libertarian party has gone over to the dark side. I am angry and disappointed. I will never, ever vote for another Libertarian again as long as I live. I am done with the Libertarian party. Just done.
 
I think this is because there are some people who would more properly be considered libertines than libertarians.

One of the things I say quite often is that liberty comes with responsibility. We have a responsibility to ourselves and to others. Too many people want the right to do whatever they want to do without considering the impact on others. As human beings who live in communities, we are linked together by the fact that we are people with souls. Ron Paul is a man of principle who believes in responsible liberty. That's why he's a doctor. That's why he went into the military. That's why he served in Congress. He owns his liberty and his responsibility.

I think the Libertarian party has gone over to the dark side. I am angry and disappointed. I will never, ever vote for another Libertarian again as long as I live. I am done with the Libertarian party. Just done.

I feel your disappointment. The Libertarian Party is quickly becoming a third, mutant wing of the two party system, all because they want to be accepted and mainstream. It's sickening.

Your point about libertines and libertarians is also one that I personally stress a lot. +rep to you.
 
How close is too close?:confused:

People who aren't on the bleeding edge have no idea.

Had a candidate leave a robocall the other day, these were essentially the points:

- I (government) will work to solve traffic congestion.
- I (government) will work to solve the lack of housing and high housing prices and rents.
- I (government) will work to raise the minimum wage and raise wages for everyone.
- I (government) will work to fix the immigration system and increase immigration limits. Contact me if you need any help with visas. Thank you.
 
More and/or open immigration is one of the highest priorities for the establishment, crony corporatists, globalists, neoconservatives and beltway libertarians. It brings people together. Perhaps that is the future of the "Libertarian" Party.

Id vote for Gary Johnson, if he weren't practically open-borders on immigration. I look around and cant see anyone who really represents me, so I'm voting for Trump, its the closest I can get to toilet-papering the White House lawn.
 
It depends what your priorities are. An alliance of the right with libertarianism seems to be friendly to immigration reform, 2A rights and business deregulation. But an anti-war message will never be accepted.

An alliance with the left gets anti-war people on board, but you have to handhold them through economic freedom somehow. I'm speaking of grassroots of course, not those in power, who are all for war.

In 2008 & 2012, there was room for a right-libertarian to make an impact. This time, a left-libertarian appeals more. The LP is a group of people operating democratically. It's subject to the collective whim of a lot of people with conflicting interests.

Pure libertarianism, via Ron, Ayn or Murray is a political non-starter. That's going to take every libertarian (left, right or up) on earth giving up what they're doing and becoming middle school/junior high teachers at public schools then waiting 30 years for the result.
 
I think this is because there are some people who would more properly be considered libertines than libertarians.

One of the things I say quite often is that liberty comes with responsibility. We have a responsibility to ourselves and to others. Too many people want the right to do whatever they want to do without considering the impact on others. As human beings who live in communities, we are linked together by the fact that we are people with souls. Ron Paul is a man of principle who believes in responsible liberty. That's why he's a doctor. That's why he went into the military. That's why he served in Congress. He owns his liberty and his responsibility.

I think the Libertarian party has gone over to the dark side. I am angry and disappointed. I will never, ever vote for another Libertarian again as long as I live. I am done with the Libertarian party. Just done.

Uh, I would judge who you vote for by the individual not the party... I thought I would never vote Republican again until Ron Paul ran. I thought I was going to vote libertarian this go-around but I'm still undecided.

Also there are a lot of libertines who are libertarian and responsible. I don't think the people getting naked and smoking pot and not hurting anybody are destroying the libertarian party.

I always thought the biggest contingent of beltway libertarians that were a problem were the ones who just wanted low taxes and were frustrated with the lack of fiscal conservatism of the Republicans. A lot of them don't care about legal weed, even though they might say they do just to fit in. A lot of them aren't hugely anti-war. I think of guys like Weld and maybe Kochs.
 
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One of the things I say quite often is that liberty comes with responsibility.

Very good, grasshoppa. For every right that an Individual has, there exists a correlative duty. Likewise, with each aspect of freedom there exists a corresponding responsibility. These are inseparable from one another. I'm really digging your posts in matters of Individual Liberty, euphemia. You've got quite a few good ones around here. Alot of them are pfffeeeeww. Right over heads. Heh. Good stuff from you, though. I like it.
 
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Also there are a lot of libertines who are libertarian and responsible. I don't think the people getting naked and smoking pot and not hurting anybody are destroying the libertarian party.

Doesn't appear that you understood her point in terms of Liberty/Responsibility.
 
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It depends what your priorities are. An alliance of the right with libertarianism seems to be friendly to immigration reform, 2A rights and business deregulation. But an anti-war message will never be accepted.

An alliance with the left gets anti-war people on board, but you have to handhold them through economic freedom somehow. I'm speaking of grassroots of course, not those in power, who are all for war.

In 2008 & 2012, there was room for a right-libertarian to make an impact. This time, a left-libertarian appeals more. The LP is a group of people operating democratically. It's subject to the collective whim of a lot of people with conflicting interests.

Pure libertarianism, via Ron, Ayn or Murray is a political non-starter. That's going to take every libertarian (left, right or up) on earth giving up what they're doing and becoming middle school/junior high teachers at public schools then waiting 30 years for the result.

Perhaps Rothbard was more realistic than you imagine:

February 28, 2014
Murray Rothbard was Right on Libertarian Strategy
by Keith Preston

Murray Rothbard was one of the few modern libertarian or anarchist thinkers to give any serious thought to strategic questions. Not coincidentally, the growing libertarian movement of the present day is to a large degree the result of Rothbard’s visionary thinking in the area of strategy. In the early 90s, while the neolibertarian corporate apologists around groups like the CATO Institute were brown nosing the Republicans and other libertarians were similarly brown nosing the cultural Left, Rothbard and his circle recognized that a serious libertarian movement would have to be populist in nature, and not one that was oriented towards either the elites (like CATO) or towards the cultural far fringes and hard left (like the left-libertarians). Hence, the “paleo strategy” of Rothbard, Rockwell, and Raimondo.

It was the paleo strategy (i.e. a fusion of libertarian anti-statism, right-wing populism, and neo-isolationist foreign policy views) that became the foundation for the Ron Paul campaigns, which were the spark for the growth of libertarian movement over the past five or six years. To be sure, the growing libertarian movement has veered off into multiple directions, right, left, and center, but its overall growth positively correlates with the (relative) popularity of Ron Paul as a public figure.
...
http://attackthesystem.com/2014/02/28/murray-rothbard-was-right-on-libertarian-strategy/
 
Also there are a lot of libertines who are libertarian and responsible. I don't think the people getting naked and smoking pot and not hurting anybody are destroying the libertarian party.

I would necessarily describe those people as libertines unless that's all they want their liberty to do for them. Johnson is heavily invested in pot and has gained some notoriety because of it. That's why he's in politics. The free market isn't working so well for him in that regard. Like it isn't working for a lot of people who grow crops for people who need food.
 
Perhaps Rothbard was more realistic than you imagine:

Oh, I'm well aware. But it's not realism, it's now proven to be a massive misstep and a classic deal with the devil, maybe literally.

The quote from Mr. Preston you provided claims that this strategy set the foundation for the Ron Paul campaigns. Bull. Dr. Paul and his ideals were the foundation of those campaigns. The (later to be known as) alt-right nonsense (newsletters) that attached itself to him eventually dragged him and the whole movement down to irrelevancy.

Hence, Gary Johnson and left-libertarianism to the fore of the movement such that it is, while "loose cannon" establishment elite trump and socialist Sanders marshall grassroots energy.

I don't dismiss Rothbard's achievements for this, as I wouldn't dismiss Rand or Nozick for their missteps.
 
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