College Student I.D.'s no longer valid for voting!

[erowe1]

And the new voter ID requirements do nothing to change the reality of multiple voting.

I have seen them work firsthand working as an election judge and personally turning away multiple college students who tried to vote with nothing more than college ID cards.

ETA: In fact, we told the students that they could go get Indiana drivers licenses right then and then come back and vote. Some tried to do that, and then they came back and told us that they were asked to turn over the drivers licenses they had from their home states in order to get Indiana ones, and they weren't willing to do that. So they wanted to be able to have IDs identifying themselves as residents, and legal voters, for two different states at the same time.

 

[kylejack]

I have seen them work firsthand working as an election judge and personally turning away multiple college students who tried to vote with nothing more than college ID cards.

How do you know you were seeing multiple voting first-hand rather than just denying citizens the right to cast their single vote?

 

[erowe1]

How do you know you were seeing multiple voting first-hand rather than just denying citizens the right to cast their single vote?

I don't believe in the existence of such a right.

If they wanted to vote in Indiana, it was up to them to get Indiana ID's. Being legal voters in two different states at the same time shouldn't be an option. If they wanted to be legal voters in Indiana, then they need to forfeit being voters in other states at the same time. If they're not willing to forfeit that, then they shouldn't be allowed to vote in Indiana.

 

[kylejack]

I don't believe in the existence of such a right.

If they wanted to vote in Indiana, it was up to them to get Indiana ID's. Being legal voters in two different states at the same time shouldn't be an option. If they wanted to remain legal voters in Indiana, then they need to choose to forfeit being voters in other states at the same time. If they're not willing to forfeit that, then they shouldn't be allowed to vote in Indiana.

I don't think you answered my question. You say you saw multiple voting first-hand. Voting in multiple primaries is a felony in most places. Big risk to take.

 

[erowe1]

I don't think you answered my question. You say you saw multiple voting first-hand.

No I didn't say that. I said I saw the law work to prevent people from being able to vote in multiple states.

 

[kylejack]

Why should a person have to pay money to vote? Isn't being a citizen sufficient?

 

[erowe1]

Why should a person have to pay money to vote? Isn't being a citizen sufficient?

If you want to go down that road, I'll go even further and advocate poll taxes.

 

[Apparition]

If democrats are the main ones engaged in voter fraud then why is it that republicans are the ones in favor of inauditable electronic voting machines? And why were republican officials convicted of trying to rig the 2004 presidential recount? Dems may steal 1 or 2 votes at a time. Republicans steal hundreds or thousands at a time. The difference is merely one of scale and technique.

I believe the electronic voting machine fraud is a separate issue that isn't addressed one way or another with the photo ID voter fraud issue.
Allow an audit of the machines done by an independent company and that should solve the issue.

Dems vs Republicans wasn't the main point I was trying to get at... was just that I can see how having a valid state ID would help with voter fraud but I can see how certain citizens could have an issue with it.

I guess the problem is figuring out a solution that is fair for everyone that also SOLVES the problem.

 

[jmdrake]

I have seen them work firsthand working as an election judge and personally turning away multiple college students who tried to vote with nothing more than college ID cards.

ETA: In fact, we told the students that they could go get Indiana drivers licenses right then and then come back and vote. Some tried to do that, and then they came back and told us that they were asked to turn over the drivers licenses they had from their home states in order to get Indiana ones, and they weren't willing to do that. So they wanted to be able to have IDs identifying themselves as residents, and legal voters, for two different states at the same time.

You're missing the point, and you're putting too much stock in your personal experience to "get it". Have you heard of the "snowbird voters"? They are retirees (not college students) who have state issued IDs from both New York and Florida. Some of them take advantage of this fact to vote twice in presidential elections. The only way to stop this is a federal ID system so that IDs and voter rolls are crosschecked nationally. But that brings us one step closer to a national ID card which is an anathema to most of us in the liberty movement. Besides, you have enough trouble just getting people that age to vote once.

One other thing. You anecdote itself proves why this isn't needed. You were able to stop people trying to cheat the system. Maybe we need more good and honest poll watchers, but we don't need more government issued IDs.

 

[kylejack]

If you want to go down that road, I'll go even further and advocate poll taxes.

Then you'll need a Constitutional amendment to remove the 24th.

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

 

[unknown]

Of-course.

Anything to make it more difficult for those voters who are almost guaranteed to vote for RP.

 

[jmdrake]

I believe the electronic voting machine fraud is a separate issue that isn't addressed one way or another with the photo ID voter fraud issue.
Allow an audit of the machines done by an independent company and that should solve the issue.

That's just it. By design an audit of the machines is impossible. To have an audit you need a paper trail. Most machines lack such a device. In Tennessee we had a bill to add a paper trail and there was federal money available to pay for it. It was republicans who blocked the bill. And you might say "Good! Keep that bad federal money". But it was poorly written federal legislation that caused the problem in the first place.

Dems vs Republicans wasn't the main point I was trying to get at... was just that I can see how having a valid state ID would help with voter fraud but I can see how certain citizens could have an issue with it.

An argument can be made that the naked body scanners keep bombs off airplanes. Not a good argument mind you, but an argument none the less. My point is that the bad outweighs the good in this case (at least to me) just like it does with the TSA.

I guess the problem is figuring out a solution that is fair for everyone that also SOLVES the problem.

Step one is realizing that we can't solve every problem, so instead we should focus on solving the most problems with the least amount of intrusiveness on civil liberties as possible. The road to hell is paved with good intentions to "solve" problems. Fixing the electronic voting issue doesn't hurt anyone. If those in government pushing for photo ID were serious about voter fraud they would concentrate on electronic voting first. The fact that they haven't shows to me that this is just a ruse. It's just like how they let the underwear bomber on the plane on purpose, then stated the naked body scanners.

 

[Apparition]

Well, maybe CURRENT machines lack the ability of an audit, but a new machine can be built (preferably not by Diebold) that does provide a paper trail, and also an audit of the internal software responsible for counting the votes.

Hell, if I could trust the internet security, wouldn't it be sweet to make the voting done via a web-app at the polling station that allows you to track your vote online right after you vote? All that data could be stored on SQL servers and you could track the election in real time.

And yeah.. your argument was a pretty bad one. =P
TSA / body scanners not the same as requiring a photo id to vote... now if they start requiring body scanners to vote, then we're talkin!
My one argument against a photo-id requirement is that you have to pay to have a photo id.. and that equates to a polling tax in my eyes.

 

[erowe1]

You anecdote itself proves why this isn't needed. You were able to stop people trying to cheat the system. Maybe we need more good and honest poll watchers, but we don't need more government issued IDs.

The only reason I was able to stop them is because of our voter ID law. Without that, they would have been able to vote.

I know that it's not a foolproof way to stop all voter fraud. But it stops some of it, and some is better than none.

 

[erowe1]

Then you'll need a Constitutional amendment to remove the 24th.

I'm all for that.

 

[kylejack]

I'm all for that.

Alright, well in the meanwhile it is unconstitutional to require a fee to be paid to vote. They either need to provide a free voter ID card or make a driver's license or state ID free.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

+rep. This isn't about fighting voter fraud. It's about getting people used to the idea of having to have a federally approved ID to do anything in this country. It's sad that so many in the liberty movement are uninformed about the dangers all of the increasing "government sponsored picture ID for everything under the sun" initiatives. The NAACP is wrong about a lot of things, but they are right to oppose the new voter ID requirements.

Well, the current requirements in AZ are only 1 form of photo ID or 3 non-photo IDs. You can use a passport or anything like that. You're being a little paranoid in this case, IMO. (but I haven't read every state's law, so you may be right)

 

[kylejack]

Well, the current requirements in AZ are only 1 form of photo ID or 3 non-photo IDs. You can use a passport or anything like that. You're being a little paranoid in this case, IMO. (but I haven't read every state's law, so you may be right)

Does it require that the ID not be expired? Does the required photo ID cost money paid to the government to acquire?

 

[erowe1]

Alright, well in the meanwhile it is unconstitutional to require a fee to be paid to vote. They either need to provide a free voter ID card or make a driver's license or state ID free.

Well, if it's in the Constitution, then I guess that makes it right.

 

[affa]

I have seen them work firsthand working as an election judge and personally turning away multiple college students who tried to vote with nothing more than college ID cards.

That is proof that they are preventing youth from voting, not proof that, as you suggest, that it's stopping voter fraud. There is no evidence these students were going to vote in multiple states, but it's clear they were trying to vote once.