Collectivist RP supporters, good or bad?

[dr. hfn]

collectivists who advocate force i will never agree with

 

[Truth Warrior]

collectivists who advocate force i will never agree with

I don't care much for the barbarians either.

 

[Gaius1981]

I don't know - I've never met a collectivist Ron Paul supporter!

You'd be amazed at the amount of users here who declared their support for the radical collectivist Ralph Nader, and the amount of users who claims that there is no such thing as intellectual property -- that all ideas (such as Rearden Steel) are owned by the collective. Many collectivists are flocking to Ron Paul because of his anti-war stance.

 

[Ex Post Facto]

This is a weird discussion. I'm a collectivist in the sense that I support all those the support the power of the individual. Without collectivists in the meaning used here, you wouldn't have a movement. I even support people with social views having it their way through their own group as long as the option is not a blanket that is applied to everyone without their acceptance of the agreement. I think there should be social programs, but those social programs should be an insurance of sorts. You lose your job, you collect your just portion. You can't find work, you collect your portion to sustain yourself until you can find work. After all you've paid into it on an optional basis. What I have a problem with, is forced collective approaches that trap you into doing it one way or no way. Equally, I'm against government having to much of a role in this, outside of basic guidelines reducing fraud attempts.

In the liberty movement, from my vantage point, all ideas are possible, across all political spectrums. The one common theme, is that none of the ideas force cooperation with a disagreeing party. If all liberty minded people truly emphasized what liberty means we find ourselves looking at the constitution. That means everything is possible so long as it doesn't hamper life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness.

 

[pcosmar]

From Freedom Force International ,
http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/

Let us be specific. Collectivists advocate controlled elections, controlled media, controlled education, the elimination of free speech, disarmament of the population, fiat money, a cartelized health-care system, military imperialism, and global government.

The ideology of Freedom Force is individualism, the opposite of collectivism at every point. Individualists advocate honest elections, a competitive media, an educational system responsive to parents, encouragement of free speech, a well-armed citizenry, sound money, freedom-of-choice in health care, a non-interventionist foreign policy, and national sovereignty.

I am not a collectivist, but am willing to work collectively with others of like mind to promote Individualism.

 

[user]

If you'd read more of what Ron Paul has written, there may just possibly be hope for YOU.

Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than individuals...in a free society every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality.

 

[idiom]

Yes, but I won't. Ya just get what ya get.

You're bluffing. You have no idea why you put that quote there.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

There are only individuals! The "collective" is merely an non-existent abstraction, in reality.<IMHO>

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abstraction

IMHO, you are wrong.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

IMHO, you are wrong.

Why? Please elaborate. What is "society" but a name for a group of individuals who happen to live in the same area and interact with each other? IMHO, he's right.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

I believe that the collectivism we are talking about is based on Immanual Kant "greater good". That is different than "Cliquism"..which is what I find on this forum. I am a very individual thinker..I piss everyone off..republicans, democrats, libertarians, greens ,,, you name it..I'm not gettin in lock step with any of em. Tones

 

[idiom]

There are only individuals! The "collective" is merely an non-existent abstraction, in reality.<IMHO>

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abstraction

The idividual is an abstraction. If it is not can you link me to a specific description of the concrete component you refer to as your 'individualness'.

Which Neuron in you brain is the individual one? Which part of the Neuron?

An individual is just as much an abstraction as a collection of individuals.

Ship of Theseus

Philosophy Of Identity

Thus the principle of individuation is
nothing but the invariableness and
uninterruptedness of any object, thro' a
suppos'd variation of time, by which the
mind can trace it in the different
periods of its existence, without any
break of the view, and without being
oblig'd to form the idea of multiplicity
or number.

Hume - Bundle Theory of Identity

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I've noticed that there are a lot of collectivists here. Do you think this is good or bad?

Can you give specific examples of ideas or opinions that have been expressed here (by Ron Paul supporters) that are "collectivist"?

 

[Gaius1981]

Can you give specific examples of ideas or opinions that have been expressed here (by Ron Paul supporters) that are "collectivist"?

Like I mentioned earlier: You'd be amazed at the amount of users here who declared their support for the radical collectivist Ralph Nader, and the amount of users who claims that there is no such thing as intellectual property -- that all ideas (such as Rearden Steel) are owned by the collective. Many collectivists are flocking to Ron Paul because of his anti-war stance.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

The idividual is an abstraction. If it is not can you link me to a specific description of the concrete component you refer to as your 'individualness'.

Which Neuron in you brain is the individual one? Which part of the Neuron?

An individual is just as much an abstraction as a collection of individuals.

Ship of Theseus

Philosophy Of Identity



Hume - Bundle Theory of Identity

The individual is not at all an abstraction. Have you ever tried to subdivide an individual? Doing this would kill or injure the individual. The individual is the absolute lowest common denominator in the realm of interpersonal relationships.

We CAN and DO however, subdivide "society" in myriad ways. This isn't as complicated as you're trying to make it.

 

[Pauls' Revere]

"The original American patriots were those individuals brave enough to resist with force the oppressive power of King George. I accept the definition of patriotism as that effort to resist oppressive state power. The true patriot is motivated by a sense of responsibility, and out of self interest -- for himself, his family, and the future of his country -- to resist government abuse of power. He rejects the notion that patriotism means obedience to the state." -- Ron Paul

Superbump!

 

[idiom]

The individual is not at all an abstraction. Have you ever tried to subdivide an individual? Doing this would kill or injure the individual. The individual is the absolute lowest common denominator in the realm of interpersonal relationships.

We CAN and DO however, subdivide "society" in myriad ways. This isn't as complicated as you're trying to make it.

So a physical body is the individual then? That has its own problems, but we can pretend its a simple world.

Abortion would be a form of sub division of that individual, as would cloning.

However it makes DNA sampling and compiling a non-issue. Anyone can record your DNA without consent.

There is an entire field of Medical ethics dealing with someones brain causing choices they would not make in the absence of disease or dysfunction.

Siamese twins of course are pretty obvious.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

So a physical body is the individual then? That has its own problems, but we can pretend its a simple world.

I'm not aware of an instance in which a physical body is not an individual. Are you?

 

[Gaius1981]

It'd be more correct to say that a consciousness is an individual. A physical body can be dead, or contain siamese twins, etc.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Like I mentioned earlier: You'd be amazed at the amount of users here who declared their support for the radical collectivist Ralph Nader, and the amount of users who claims that there is no such thing as intellectual property -- that all ideas (such as Rearden Steel) are owned by the collective. Many collectivists are flocking to Ron Paul because of his anti-war stance.

I wonder what the OP had in mind?

I haven't noticed "a lot" of Nader supporters or anti-intellectual property rights people around here. Even Ron Paul agrees with Nader on some issues, not that agreeing with someone on a couple of issues makes someone a supporter.

I missed the intellectual property thread. Was it about prescription FDA approved drugs by any chance?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

They drive me fuckin nuts...but if they do their RPF reading assignments, there may be hope for them.

Can you give specific examples of ideas or opinions that have been expressed here (by Ron Paul supporters) that are "collectivist"?