Collectivist RP supporters, good or bad?

[user]

Thanks torchbearer and SeekLiberty for contributing information to this thread. I think those posts also answer Corydoras's question. I hope everyone understands what collectivism is. The RP grassroots campaign is not an example of collectivism.

 

[Dr.3D]

I collect coins and stamps and such and I also support Ron Paul.
Does that mean I'm a collectivist Ron Paul Supporter?

 

[Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice]

collectivist as in prone to generalizing?
only an omniscient being who has access to infinite data is free from generalizing.

 

[Andrew-Austin]

Neither particularly good or bad. If I had to choose b/w this polarity, I'd say their support is a good thing.

I collect coins and stamps and such and I also support Ron Paul.
Does that mean I'm a collectivist Ron Paul Supporter?

WTF?

 

[murrayrothbard]

THE CREED OF FREEDOM put together by G. Edward Griffon

INTRINSIC NATURE OF RIGHTS
I believe that only individuals have rights, not the collective group; that these rights are intrinsic to each individual, not granted by the state; for if the state has the power to grant them, it also has the power to deny them, and that is incompatible with personal liberty.
I believe that a just government derives its power solely from the governed. Therefore, the state must never presume to do anything beyond what individual citizens also have the right to do. Otherwise, the state is a power unto itself and becomes the master instead of the servant of society.

SUPREMACY OF THE INDIVIDUAL
I believe that one of the greatest threats to freedom is to allow any group, no matter its numeric superiority, to deny the rights of the minority; and that one of the primary functions of just government is to protect each individual from the greed and passion of the majority.

FREEDOM OF CHOICE
I believe that desirable social and economic objectives are better achieved by voluntary action than by coercion of law. I believe that social tranquility and brotherhood are better achieved by tolerance, persuasion, and the power of good example than by coercion of law. I believe that those in need are better served by charity, which is the giving of one's own money, than by welfare, which is the giving of other people's money through coercion of law.

EQUALITY UNDER LAW
I believe that all citizens should be equal under law, regardless of their national origin, race, religion, gender, education, economic status, life style, or political opinion. Likewise, no class should be given preferential treatment, regardless of the merit or popularity of its cause. To favor one class over another is not equality under law.

PROPER ROLE OF GOVERNMENT
I believe that the proper role of government is negative, not positive; defensive, not aggressive. It is to protect, not to provide; for if the state is granted the power to provide for some, it must also be able to take from others, and once that power is granted, there are those who will seek it for their advantage. It always leads to legalized plunder and loss of freedom. If government is powerful enough to give us everything we want, it is also powerful enough to take from us everything we have. Therefore, the proper function of government is to protect the lives, liberty, and property of its citizens; nothing more. That government is best which governs least.

A coercive monopoly of jurisdiction and "protection" (i.e. a State) is incompatible with these principles. By them, the only acceptable government is no government, not a "limited" government.

 

[murrayrothbard]

Collectivism is just that members of groups are seen as deriving their identity by virtue of belonging to some group, where as individualism is the idea that individuals have an identity unique to them. Nationalism, sexism, racism, etc are all forms of collectivism.

 

[Corydoras]

I think those posts also answer Corydoras's question. I hope everyone understands what collectivism is. The RP grassroots campaign is not an example of collectivism.

No, they don't. No, I don't. And yes, if this thread is to be believed, it is.

That Griffin talk and creed are flimsy tissues of rhetoric. Sad.

 

[user]

No, they don't. No, I don't. And yes, if this thread is to be believed, it is.

That Griffin talk and creed are flimsy tissues of rhetoric. Sad.

Does the post right before yours help?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I've noticed that there are a lot of collectivists here. Do you think this is good or bad?

They drive me fuckin nuts...but if they do their RPF reading assignments, there may be hope for them.

 

[Andrew-Austin]

This is a fucking old thread.

 

[newbitech]

I think to a larger extent Ron Paul supporters are collectivist simply because they have focused in on the man and invested so much energy into getting him elected. (whoa flash back lol)

Now its time to throw off Ron Paul collectivism and get back to the mission at hand and that is pick up those individual crosses of liberty and march down that freedom rode all by yourself! Yeah!

Anyways I picked Bad, hurts liberty.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I think to a larger extent Ron Paul supporters are collectivist simply because they have focused in on the man and invested so much energy into getting him elected. (whoa flash back lol)

Now its time to throw off Ron Paul collectivism and get back to the mission at hand and that is pick up those individual crosses of liberty and march down that freedom rode all by yourself! Yeah!

Anyways I picked Bad, hurts liberty.

speak for yourself. RP, for me, is a vehicle for the message. It's nice that he's there, but he's not all there is.

 

[LibertyEagle]

They drive me fuckin nuts...but if they do their RPF reading assignments, there may be hope for them.

If you'd read more of what Ron Paul has written, there may just possibly be hope for YOU.

 

[idiom]

Well how about we all vote for ourselves while the collectivists vote for one person.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Divisionists, good or bad for the Liberty movement?

 

[NationaliseIt]

collectivism is an essential must in an imperfect world, there are circumstances where the will of the masses must override the will of the individual (e.g. in the case of the mentally ill who have to be put away for the safety of themselves and others, or to intervene and investigate circumstances where children are at risk, etc...)

anti-collectivists are living with their heads in the clouds

 

[Truth Warrior]

"The original American patriots were those individuals brave enough to resist with force the oppressive power of King George. I accept the definition of patriotism as that effort to resist oppressive state power. The true patriot is motivated by a sense of responsibility, and out of self interest -- for himself, his family, and the future of his country -- to resist government abuse of power. He rejects the notion that patriotism means obedience to the state." -- Ron Paul

 

[heavenlyboy34]

If you'd read more of what Ron Paul has written, there may just possibly be hope for YOU.

Right back at ya. Reading the doctor is one of the things that cured my statism. Hopefully you'll come around too.

 

[idiom]

"The original American patriots were those individuals brave enough to resist with force the oppressive power of King George. I accept the definition of patriotism as that effort to resist oppressive state power. The true patriot is motivated by a sense of responsibility, and out of self interest -- for himself, his family, and the future of his country -- to resist government abuse of power. He rejects the notion that patriotism means obedience to the state." -- Ron Paul

Okay. Can you explain the relevance of the quote to the discussion?

 

[Truth Warrior]

Okay. Can you explain the relevance of the quote to the discussion?

Yes, but I won't. Ya just get what ya get.