CNN: Hawaii Gov. tries to end birther debate once and for all

[Bruno]

1. Proof has been supplied. It is up to you to dismantle that proof. "Nuh-uh" isn't working.
2. BHO is a politician, they all lie to some extent. However, as noted several times, proof has been supplied as to his US citizenship.
3. Proof of a CT SSi number has yet to be supplied. Sorry, but WND merely claiming it exists is hardly evidence. They have simply been caught fabricating too often.

Finally, I am an American of Irish decent. I am very stubborn, in case you haven't noticed. If you have no right, or even valid reason, to see my personal papers, you are not going to see them and I will do whatever is necessary to keep you from seeing them.

1. Post the birth certificate that you believe so strongly in. The short form is a joke.

2. Obama has lied, therefore I don't believe him, just like you don't believe WND. The cited "proof" is a 2007 reproduction of a short form that is laughable, at best, and far from proof, far enough that even Obama supporters such as the Governor of Hawaii think more proof is needed. Why don't you call him and tell him you're convinced, so he should back off?

3. Calling WND Wacky Nuts Daily is the same as calling Ron Paul a kook and then discrediting anything he says. Fail on your part.

Finally, I'm am American who was adopted, so I have no idea what my heritage is. I am very stubborn, in case you didn't notice. If you have no right, nor valid reason to see my personal papers, you will not. However, who the hell cares, because I'm neither the president nor running for president, so why the hell are we talking about your or my birth certificates, again, anyway?

There are plenty of reasons to question his birthplace, and only those who are completely closed-minded cannot see that others have a rational reason for doing so.

 

[dannno]

Look "buddy", you show your BC to the HR gal, not the owner.

Not only has Barry shown you his BC, the "HR" department of the g'ment has all they need.

As the owner I have the right to fire the HR gal and get a new one who will actually do their job.

 

[Bruno]

I wish the Hawaii Governor would hurry up and end this debate "once and for all", because it is far from over! lol

 

[AxisMundi]

1. Post the birth certificate that you believe so strongly in. The short form is a joke.

2. Obama has lied, therefore I don't believe him, just like you don't believe WND. The cited "proof" is a 2007 reproduction of a short form that is laughable, at best, and far from proof, far enough that even Obama supporters such as the Governor of Hawaii think more proof is needed. Why don't you call him and tell him you're convinced, so he should back off?

3. Calling WND Wacky Nuts Daily is the same as calling Ron Paul a kook and then discrediting anything he says. Fail on your part.

Finally, I'm am American who was adopted, so I have no idea what my heritage is. I am very stubborn, in case you didn't notice. If you have no right, nor valid reason to see my personal papers, you will not. However, who the hell cares, because I'm neither the president nor running for president, so why the hell are we talking about your or my birth certificates, again, anyway?

There are plenty of reasons to question his birthplace, and only those who are completely closed-minded cannot see that others have a rational reason for doing so.

1. A short form is a legal United States Document and proof od birth. Sorry if you refuse to understand that, but the burden of proof is still on you.

2. BHO has supplied a legal US document as proof. WND has offered nothing.

3. Your non sequitur fallacy still isn't working. Try another one. No one with any shred of integrity or intellectual honesty takes WND as anything other than what it is, a sensationalist internet "rag" looking for a following.

4. There WERE indeed plenty of reasons to question his birth place. The questions have been satisfied for the rational people.

 

[Bruno]

1. A short form is a legal United States Document and proof od birth. Sorry if you refuse to understand that, but the burden of proof is still on you.

2. BHO has supplied a legal US document as proof. WND has offered nothing.

3. Your non sequitur fallacy still isn't working. Try another one. No one with any shred of integrity or intellectual honesty takes WND as anything other than what it is, a sensationalist internet "rag" looking for a following.

4. There WERE indeed plenty of reasons to question his birth place. The questions have been satisfied for the rational people.

Still don't want to post that ridiculous birth certificate, huh? Oh well, I don't blame you. It is pretty pathetic as "proof".

The short form is such a joke that hardly anyone actually believes it, except for the fringe you are on. Most other rational people still have questions why there is actually a long form out there, people claim to have seen it, and he hasn't released it. It's his own fault there is so much controversy, but perhaps he has other motives to spend millions to refuse to share it.

There still ARE many reasons to question his birthplace, enough so that the Governor of Hawaii made his statements and we are discussing it on this thread. If it were only a tiny percent of Americans that didn't believe he was born here, would we still be talking about it so much?

Additionally, how can other sources be cited when other sources refuse to investigate? Do you not believe our media is capable of bias, or were you not paying attention in the past few years? How some candidates such as Barack Obama and John McCain were thrust to the front, and on the opposite end like how Ron Paul was treated? That's similiar to how they treat "Birthers", as people like Anderson Cooper bring guests on and then attack them and try to make them look like fools instead of actually doing any investigative reporting?

And lastly, it amazes me when people blindly believe that what is presented to them is true, regardless of that fact that politicians have lied about a lot less, to gain much less. That though they have proven through not only this Obama adminstration but every one in recent memory that they are capable of a magnitude of corruption, bribery, kickbacks, deals for buddies, fixing court outcomes, shady appointments, ethics violations, quid pro quo, junkets, etc.. And yet people would believe that a 2007 birth certificate with hardly any information, excluding the doctor or the hospital of birth would be sufficient for a person whose birthplace is justly questioned.

But hey, I don't believe in AGW, either. I'm kooky like that.

 

[AxisMundi]

Still don't want to post that ridiculous birth certificate, huh? Oh well, I don't blame you. It is pretty pathetic as "proof".

The short form is such a joke that hardly anyone actually believes it, except for the fringe you are on. Most other rational people still have questions why there is actually a long form out there, people claim to have seen it, and he hasn't released it. It's his own fault there is so much controversy, but perhaps he has other motives to spend millions to refuse to share it.

There still ARE many reasons to question his birthplace, enough so that the Governor of Hawaii made his statements and we are discussing it on this thread. If it were only a tiny percent of Americans that didn't believe he was born here, would we still be talking about it so much?

And lastly, it amazes me when people blindly believe that what is presented to them is true, regardless of that fact that politicians have lied about a lot less, to gain much less. That though they have proven through not only this Obama adminstration but every one in recent memory that they are capable of a magnitude of corruption, bribery, kickbacks, deals for buddies, fixing court outcomes, shady appointments, ethics violations, quid pro quo, junkets, etc.. And yet people would believe that a 2007 birth certificate with hardly any information, excluding the doctor or the hospital of birth would be sufficient for a person whose birthplace is justly questioned.

But hey, I don't believe in AGW, either. I'm kooky like that.

You have a problem with the short form, you post it since this entire fiasco is a mere distraction on your part.

And there are no valid reasons to question his birthplace, only empty rhetoric and clear fabrications which the Gov is trying to lay to rest.

 

[Bruno]

You have a problem with the short form, you post it since this entire fiasco is a mere distraction on your part.

And there are no valid reasons to question his birthplace, only empty rhetoric and clear fabrications which the Gov is trying to lay to rest.

Have you even seen the short form you so strongly believe in? It really is a joke, you know.

You cite your sources. Show how convincing these documents are. Who produced the short form, when it was requested? Show me what has you so convinced. I'm really curious.

Additionally, how can other sources besides WND be cited when other sources refuse to investigate? Do you not believe our media is capable of bias, or were you not paying attention in the past few years? How some candidates such as Barack Obama and John McCain were thrust to the front, and on the opposite end like how Ron Paul was treated? How he was made out to be kooky then ignored like the nutty uncle? That's similiar to how they treat "Birthers", as people like Anderson Cooper bring guests on and then attack them and try to make them look like fools instead of actually doing any investigative reporting?

Well, tens of millions of rational Americans aren't convinced. Believe what you want. I'm certainly not convinced, and won't be until we find out more what he is spending millions to hide.

I remain as amazed by people like you as you may be amazed by people like me.

 

[AxisMundi]

Have you even seen the short form you so strongly believe in? It really is a joke, you know.

Well, tens of millions of rational Americans aren't convinced. Believe what you want. I'm certainly not convinced, and won't be until we find out more what he is spending millions to hide.

I remain as amazed by people like you as you may be amazed by people like me.

Firstly, I seriously doubt your "tens of millions" estimate.

Secondly, I have seen the same images everyone else has, images confirmed by the Hawaiian State G'ment.

You have claimed several times that it "is a joke", yet you have ignored several requests to substantiate and list your concerns.

Shall I bother waiting for your list?

 

[Bruno]

Firstly, I seriously doubt your "tens of millions" estimate.

Secondly, I have seen the same images everyone else has, images confirmed by the Hawaiian State G'ment.

You have claimed several times that it "is a joke", yet you have ignored several requests to substantiate and list your concerns.

Shall I bother waiting for your list?

So, so far you refuse to show this supposedly credible birth certificate, and claim "government has checked it out, it's ok, so I'm convinced."

Is this the same Hawaiin State G'ment (wow, first of all you trust government? lmao) where the Governor claims he knew Obama since he was a baby, was close friends with the family, and now wants to "end this debate once and for all"? No conflict of interest bells going off for you?


http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/21/obama-and-the-birthers-in-the-latest-poll/

Despite all that, a substantial number of Americans are not convinced. In a recent New York Times/CBS News poll, 58 percent said Mr. Obama was born in the United States. That leaves a significant minority who said they thought he was born in another country (20 percent) or said they did not know (23 percent). (Question No. 50 in the poll.)

What's 20% of 300 million? 40 million. Tens of millions. And in the don't knows, and you are over 120 million.

 

[Zippyjuan]

So prove he was born in another country. Nobody has been able to do that. "No- he has to prove he wasn't!". Burden of proof is on the accuser in this country. At least people are agreeing that he was "born". Some think he is an alien. From another planet.

 

[Bruno]

So prove he was born in another country. Nobody has been able to do that. "No- he has to prove he wasn't!". Burden of proof is on the accuser in this country. At least people are agreeing that he was "born". Some think he is an alien. From another planet.

The burdon of proof is on him that he was born here, not for others to prove that he wasn't. I and tens of millions of others remain unconvinced. Show me what is so convincing? What has you convinced? Why does he spend millions to not show a piece of paper and to only cause more uncertainty?

Additionally, the Governor of Hawaii obviously agrees that this issue isn't settled and the "proof" is unconvincing, that is why he wants to try to end the debate once and for all. That doesn't mean he will necessarily seek the truth, but just try to end the debate, as another poster mentioned. A debate that they attempted to end with the release of the short form, which only remained more unconvincing.

 

[AxisMundi]

The burdon of proof is on him that he was born here, not for others to prove that he wasn't. I and tens of millions of others remain unconvinced. Show me what is so convincing? What has you convinced? Why does he spend millions to not show a piece of paper and to only cause more uncertainty?

Additionally, the Governor of Hawaii obviously agrees that this issue isn't settled and the "proof" is unconvincing, that is why he wants to try to end the debate once and for all. That doesn't mean he will necessarily seek the truth, but just try to end the debate, as another poster mentioned. A debate that they attempted to end with the release of the short form, which only remained more unconvincing.

Proof supplied in a legal US document that YOU refuse to address.

No, the burden of proof is on you.

 

[Bruno]

Proof supplied in a legal US document that YOU refuse to address.

No, the burden of proof is on you.

I've adressed that the "legal US document" is highly questionable to tens of millions and why, and even the HI Governor friend of the family agrees. Feel free to post the legal document you are talking about as your source.

You have refused to cite why you believe what you believe, the documents that prove it enough for you, and your sources. You haven't cited one single source that shows Obama was born in the U.S. I'm open-minded. What proof is there that he was born in America? I really don't know where he was born, that's why I am skeptical. Maybe you can convince me.

And for the record, I really don't care where you, the courts, the law, or anyone else believes the burdon of proof is. I believe it is on him. So that argument has no weight at all with me.

 

[Bruno]

AP: Hawaii Governor seeks way to disclose Obama birth info

It is interesting that the AP omits that President Obama could release the long form that the Governor is discussing if he simply chose to do so, sparing all this hassle, that Obama has not explained why he will not, and why he has spent more than a million dollars to avoid doing so.

That, and the Democratic Governor's complete contractions which are underlined.

ht tp://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11002/1114784-84.stm


Hawaii governor seeks way to disclose Obama birth info
Sunday, January 02, 2011

By Mark Niesse, The Associated Press
HONOLULU -- Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie wants to find a way to release more information about President Barack Obama's birth and dispel conspiracy theories that he was born elsewhere.

Mr. Abercrombie was a friend of Mr. Obama's parents and knew him as a child, and is deeply troubled by the effort to cast doubt on the president's citizenship.

The newly elected Democrat will ask the state attorney general's office and health officials about how he can make public more of Obama's birth documentation from Aug. 4, 1961, spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said last week. "He had a friendship with Mr. Obama's parents, and so there is a personal issue at hand," she said. "Is it going to be done immediately? No, the first thing on our list is the economy."

It's unclear what Mr. Abercrombie could do because Hawaii's privacy laws have long barred the release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who doesn't have a tangible interest.

Hawaii's health director said last year and in 2008 that she had seen and verified Mr. Obama's original vital records, and birth notices in two Honolulu newspapers were published within (Bruno's note: NINE) days of Mr. Obama's birth at Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital in Honolulu (Bruno's note: The name of the hospitial is not listed on either of the birth announcements, though that is implied by this statement).

So-called "birthers" claim Mr. Obama is ineligible to be president because they say there's no proof he was born in the United States, with many of the skeptics questioning whether he was actually born in Kenya, his father's home country.

"What bothers me is that some people who should know better are trying to use this for political reasons," Mr. Abercrombie told the Los Angeles Times last week. "Maybe I'm the only one in the country [who] could look you right in the eye right now and tell you, 'I was here when that baby was born.' "
Mr. Abercrombie was unavailable for additional comment because he was vacationing on Maui, Ms. Dela Cruz said.

The Obama campaign issued a certificate of live birth in 2008, an official document from the state showing the president's birth date, city and name, along with his parents' names and races. The certificate doesn't list the name of the hospital where he was born or the physician who delivered him, information collected by the state as part of its vital records.

Mr. Abercrombie, originally from New York, befriended Mr. Obama's parents at the University of Hawaii after he moved here in 1959, the same year the islands became a state.

Mr. Abercrombie, 72, has said he remembers seeing Mr. Obama as a child with his parents at social events, although he acknowledged that he didn't see his parents with their newborn son at the hospital.

The number of requests for Mr. Obama's birth information increased this month as the Obama family prepared to vacation in Hawaii.

The Department of Health had received 27 requests for the president's birth information this month as of last Thursday, up from 16 in November, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.

Information requests rose despite a new state law allowing officials to ignore persistent and repetitive inquiries, a law that has been used about six times by the department, Ms. Okubo said.

"It's just a few people, and some of their requests are the same," she said. "The requests fluctuate from month to month."

Nearly all birth certificate information seekers are from the mainland United States, with requests rarely coming from Hawaii residents, said Cathy Takase, acting director for the state Office of Information Practices.

Ms. Takase usually responds to appeals for Mr. Obama's birth records by telling requesters that the information they're seeking is contained in records protected by statute (Bruno's note: ,and we're unsure why Obama won't just release the long form when he already released the short form. It really doesn't make any sense and just leads to more doubt).

 

[Zippyjuan]

For me, we have a legal document (the birth certificate already offered) verified by the issuers (Hawaiian Departent of Health official who is in charge of birth certificate records) and the birth announcements in BOTH local papers (I know you have previously seen these documents so I won't bother with any links to them). If he was born in another country (say Kenya), why would an 18 year old girl from Iowa be so concerned as to fake a birth certificate in Hawaii as well as post the birth announcements So he could become president in 48 years? So instead, this pregnant woman flew half the way around the world to give birth in Kenya and sought to cover that up. Why? No reason for her to do so.

Now if you would like to try to claim that the official was just supporting the Democratic party and was biased, it perhaps should be pointed out that Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the Director of the State of Hawaii Department of Health who did verify it, has been a contributor to the REPUBLICAN party, not to the Democrats (tidbit I recently found). http://images.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/fecimg/?26920034136

Nobody can make you believe anything you don't want to believe- no matter how many facts are presented. People still believe that Elvis is alive too. In a Fox poll on the 25th anniversary (2002) of his death, 81% said they were sure he was dead, which would leave about the same percent as you cite as not convinced that Elvis is dead- millions of people. Is this proof that he is still alive? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,60353,00.html

"While more people believe in visitors from outer space, and the absolute percentage is small," comments Opinion Dynamics President John Gorman, "these results show that nearly 16 million American adults still believe Elvis is alive � that should keep the lines at Graceland long for many years to come."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago...."

Evidence presented and verified. Now provide yours. Or prove this evidence wrong. "I don't believe" is not proof.

Out of curiosity, if you do indeed have "an open mind" on the subject, what sort of proof would convince you that he was born in Hawaii? The long form would have the exact same information as the short form except for in more details. Have you seen your own long form? Have you seen Ron Paul's?

 

[Bruno]

For me, we have a legal document (the birth certificate already offered) verified by the issuers (Hawaiian Departent of Health official who is in charge of birth certificate records) and the birth announcements in BOTH local papers (I know you have previously seen these documents so I won't bother with any links to them). If he was born in another country (say Kenya), why would an 18 year old girl from Iowa be so concerned as to fake a birth certificate in Hawaii as well as post the birth announcements So he could become president in 48 years? So instead, this pregnant woman flew half the way around the world to give birth in Kenya and sought to cover that up. Why? No reason for her to do so.

Now if you would like to try to claim that the official was just supporting the Democratic party and was biased, it perhaps should be pointed out that Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the Director of the State of Hawaii Department of Health who did verify it, has been a contributor to the REPUBLICAN party, not to the Democrats (tidbit I recently found). http://images.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/fecimg/?26920034136

Nobody can make you believe anything you don't want to believe- no matter how many facts are presented. People still believe that Elvis is alive too. In a Fox poll on the 25th anniversary (2002) of his death, 81% said they were sure he was dead, which would leave about the same percent as you cite as not convinced that Elvis is dead- millions of people. Is this proof that he is still alive? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,60353,00.html


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm


Evidence presented and verified. Now provide yours. Or prove this evidence wrong. "I don't believe" is not proof.

Out of curiosity, if you do indeed have "an open mind" on the subject, what sort of proof would convince you that he was born in Hawaii? The long form would have the exact same information as the short form except for in more details. Have you seen your own long form? Have you seen Ron Paul's?

I would love to see my own original long form. Unfortunately, I am adopted, and my records are sealed, including who my birth parents are. I've tried to have them opened, but unlike Obama, I don't have the luxury to make a phone call to open them. And I certainly wouldn't spend millions to keep them sealed.

I haven't seen Ron Paul's, but if there were any reason at all to suspect he was not born in the United States, I'm sure he would provide it if requested.

So literally ONE person has said they have seen it, and we should just take their word? Call me a skeptic, but that certainly isn't good enough for me. I guess my government has lied to me with far less on the line for me to not believe someone would lie over something like this. I don't believe he was even under oath.

Obama's mother didn't need to do so in order that he could become president, but perhaps for other reasons of her own. It wouldn't be the first time someone has done so in this country. The fact that the announcement was nine days later, and the newspapers received their info from requests for birth certificates, not from hospitals, is cause for more suspicion.

"I don't believe" may not be proof, but I have never said I have proof. I have only said there is sufficient reason to question it for me, and for millions of others, and the "proof" provided by Obama thus far is lacking, questionable, and suspect. The fact that he spends so much in court to not release the document, is further cause for suspicion.

I'd like to see the original long form. If it can be verified as authentic, that'd pretty much seal it for me. Since he won't release it, well....still doubt for me!

I'll ask you this. What logical reason can you think of that the long form supposedly exists, and yet Obama spends millions to not reveal two additional pieces of information not in the short form - the doctor who delivered him and the hospitcal in which he was born?

 

[dannno]

If I had the millions?

You better bet your last dime I would spend millions.

What a greedy bastard, you could have fed thousands of impoverished people for a year with all that money.

 

[Zippyjuan]

I can definately understand your desire to see your own certificate- if that raised any issues for you, I would like to appoligize. Such was certainly not my intent for asking the question.

The fact that the announcement was nine days later, and the newspapers received their info from requests for birth certificates, not from hospitals, is cause for more suspicion.

I don't have a link right now, but did read a report that said that the newspapers got their birth announcements from the hospitals- an examination of the list of names in both papers showed the same names in the same order- this certainly would not make it likely that they were "phoned in". The other births posted were also in the nine days later range (some were eight, some ten- found a link to the announcements so you can see this for yourself- it looks like they might have posted all the announcements for the whole week at once). One link to the announcements: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabirth.php The link is not for what the rest of the page says but only for the newspaper page reprints.

As for why he would fight releasing more documents after the original one was posted, releasing more documents would not make the issue go away. Releasing the first birth certificate didn't. Posting another birth certificate (the long form) would have merely been followed by more cries that it was a forgery so it would not have made the questions go away but instead given them a longer life. Who would you like to see verify it? The head of the department which is responsible for birth certificates (we already have that)? Who would you rather see verify? I don't think we can change your "open mind" on the issue. But that is fine. The world won't end over it.

 

[Bruno]

I can definately understand your desire to see your own certificate- if that raised any issues for you, I would like to appoligize. Such was certainly not my intent for asking the question.


I don't have a link right now, but did read a report that said that the newspapers got their birth announcements from the hospitals- an examination of the list of names in both papers showed the same names in the same order- this certainly would not make it likely that they were "phoned in". The other births posted were also in the nine days later range (some were eight, some ten- found a link to the announcements so you can see this for yourself- it looks like they might have posted all the announcements for the whole week at once). One link to the announcements: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabirth.php The link is not for what the rest of the page says but only for the newspaper page reprints.

As for why he would fight releasing more documents after the original one was posted, releasing more documents would not make the issue go away. Releasing the first birth certificate didn't. Posting another birth certificate (the long form) would have merely been followed by more cries that it was a forgery so it would not have made the questions go away but instead given them a longer life. Who would you like to see verify it? The head of the department which is responsible for birth certificates (we already have that)? Who would you rather see verify? I don't think we can change your "open mind" on the issue. But that is fine. The world won't end over it.

First, thank you for the apology, though none is needed. I am completely comfortable with it. I wish I knew who they are/were, but that didn't bring up any issues for me and I didn't intend for you to feel like it it.

Thanks for sharing the link to the birth certificates. I've seen that source, and I believe the newspaper examples are totally legit. The issues surrounding the date of the newspapers of Aug. 13th, when Obama was supposedly born on Aug. 4th is not that the newspapers didn't follow that normal practice. It is that it doesn't prove he was born on the 4th, since the newspapers wasn't printed on the 4th. At best, it shows that someone submitted paperwork from a period of the 4th-10th or so through the state which notified the newspapers to print the annoucement, which resulted in the printing on the 13th.

Additionally, a detective that interviewed the neighbor at the time to the house listed on the annoucement, said they never lived next door and they would have remembered a young African man who was unwed to a caucasian woman and came home with a newborn child. No one else interviewed that lived on the block that year could remember them ever living there, either. Strange when he was an outgoing foreign exchange student.

And regarding your reasoning that releasing it would do no good. How has not releasing it worked out so far for him? Not too well, it seems. Release it, show it to all in this new Obama age of transparancy and openness, and free yourself of spending millions more, President Obama, to avoid doing so. C'mon, there's nothing to hide, then we can all move on.

See, I'm looking at it from an exact opposite view. I am waiting to be convinced that he was born here on Aug. 4th. That hasn't been proven to me yet. Everyone wants me and others to prove he wasn't born here. That's like asking me to prove Santa Claus doesn't exist after being shown and "offical document" that he does. I want to have definitively proven to me that he does exist, before I am to believe it.

Who would verify it? I'm sure the free market could come up with a cross-section of impartial professionals we would all be comfortable with.

President Obama, prove to me and the world that you were born in this country. Release your long form birth certificate.

 

[crazyfacedjenkins]

I would love to see my own original long form. Unfortunately, I am adopted, and my records are sealed, including who my birth parents are. I've tried to have them opened, but unlike Obama, I don't have the luxury to make a phone call to open them. And I certainly wouldn't spend millions to keep them sealed.

I haven't seen Ron Paul's, but if there were any reason at all to suspect he was not born in the United States, I'm sure he would provide it if requested.

So literally ONE person has said they have seen it, and we should just take their word? Call me a skeptic, but that certainly isn't good enough for me. I guess my government has lied to me with far less on the line for me to not believe someone would lie over something like this. I don't believe he was even under oath.

Obama's mother didn't need to do so in order that he could become president, but perhaps for other reasons of her own. It wouldn't be the first time someone has done so in this country. The fact that the announcement was nine days later, and the newspapers received their info from requests for birth certificates, not from hospitals, is cause for more suspicion.

"I don't believe" may not be proof, but I have never said I have proof. I have only said there is sufficient reason to question it for me, and for millions of others, and the "proof" provided by Obama thus far is lacking, questionable, and suspect. The fact that he spends so much in court to not release the document, is further cause for suspicion.

I'd like to see the original long form. If it can be verified as authentic, that'd pretty much seal it for me. Since he won't release it, well....still doubt for me!

I'll ask you this. What logical reason can you think of that the long form supposedly exists, and yet Obama spends millions to not reveal two additional pieces of information not in the short form - the doctor who delivered him and the hospitcal in which he was born?

What is your definition of a naturally born US citizen?