CNN: Hawaii Gov. tries to end birther debate once and for all

I still think the birth certificate is a distraction from the real issue - whether or not someone born with dual citizenship (as admitted on Obama's own website) qualifies as a "natural born citizen".

"… candidate Obama is not eligible to the Presidency as he would not be a "natural born citizen" of the United States even if it were proved he was born in Hawaii , since, … Senator Obama's father was born in Kenya and therefore, having been born with split and competing loyalties, candidate Obama is not a "natural born citizen" as is required by Article 2, Section 1, of the United States Constitution." (from Donofrio's Application for Emergency Stay - 11/3/08)

Remember that it was Phiip J. Berg, a democrat, who (I believe) first popularized the claim that Obama was was born in Kenya. The eligibility question raged across the internet for months before anyone in the mainstream media breathed a single word about it! (Including Hannity, O'Reilly and Limbaugh). Eventually they created the obligatory derogatory label ("birther"), and then battered the curious with insults;
wing-nut, conspiracy theorist, paranoid, whack-job, fringe, tinfoil hat, extremist, crackpots, forgot-your-meds, knuckle dragger, mouth breather and many, many more*… (and they wonder why we don't watch?)

Obama's own supporters keep this particular issue alive. They're still pretending the dual-citizen VS. natural-born-citizen issue has never existed.

It would probably help Obama to produce the full birth certificate now. Should the issue of whether a dual-citizen can be considered a "natural born citizen" - become unavoidable (2012 election, for instance), it would be easier to discredit it as a desperate, suddenly-devised ploy from the "wing-nuts, conspiracy theorists, paranoid, whack-jobs, fringe, tinfoil hat, extremists, crackpots, forgot-your-meds, knuckle draggers, mouth breathers..."

*all these terms from Mathews' and Maddow's shows
 
I take everything Alex Jones says with a huge grain of salt. This guy thinks everything is a conspiracy.

So, did you click on the link, or dismiss it due to the source? It was an interview with someone who was on his show and did extensive research for a book he wrote. Ron Paul has been on his show many times, as I'm sure you know.

Here's some excerpts in case you don't want to click :

PART 2: Special Report. The Story of Obama: All in The Company - Part II

In Part I of this WMR special report, we revealed the connections between Barack Obama, Sr. and the CIA-affiliated Airlift Africa project to provide college degrees to and gain influence over a group of 280 eastern and southern African students from soon-to-be independent African nations to counter similar programs established by the Soviet Union and China. Barack Obama Sr. was the first African student to attend the University of Hawaii. Obama Sr. and Obama’s mother Stanley Ann Dunham met in a Russian language class in 1959 and they married in 1961.

The African airlift program was administered by Kenyan nationalist leader Tom Mboya, a fellow Luo tribe mentor and friend of the senior Obama. According to CIA documents described in Part I, Mboya also served the CIA in ensuring that pro-Soviet and pro-Chinese African nationalists were stymied in their attempt to dominate pan-African nationalist political, student, and labor movements.

One of Mboya’s chief opponents was Ghana’s first president, Kwame Nkrumah, who was ousted in a CIA-inspired coup in 1966, one year before to Obama Sr’s son, Barack Obama, Jr. and his mother joined Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian who Obama’s mother met at the University of Hawaii in 1965, when President Obama was four years old.

In 1967, Obama and his mother joined her husband in Jakarta. In 1965, Lolo Soetoro had been called back from Hawaii by General Suharto to serve as an officer in the Indonesian military to help launch a bloody CIA-backed genocide of Indonesian Communists and Indonesian Chinese throughout the expansive country. Suharto consolidated his power in 1966, the same year that Barack Obama, Sr.’s friend, Mboya, had helped to rally pro-U.S. pan-African support for the CIA’s overthrow of Nkrumah in Ghana in 1966.

East-West Center, University of Hawaii, and CIA coup against Sukarno

Ann Dunham met Soetoro at the East-West Center at the University of Hawaii. The center had long been affiliated with CIA activities in the Asia-Pacific region. In 1965, the year that Dunham met and married Soetoro, the center saw a new chancellor take over. He was Howard P. Jones who served a record seven years, from 1958 to 1965, as U.S. ambassador to Indonesia. Jones was present in Jakarta as Suharto and his CIA-backed military officers planned the 1965 overthrow of Sukarno, who was seen, along with the Indonesian Communist Party (PKI), as allies of China.

When Jones was chancellor of the East-West Center, he wrote an article for the Washington Post, dated October 10, 1965, in which he defended Suharto’s overthrow of Sukarno. Jones was “invited” by the Post to comment on the Suharto coup, described as a “counter-coup” against the Communists. Jones charged that Suharto was merely responding to an earlier attempted Communist-led coup against Sukarno launched by Lt. Col. Untung, “a relatively unknown battalion commander in the palace guard.”

Jones’s article, which mirrored CIA situation reports from the U.S. embassy in Jakarta, continued by stating that the alleged leftist coup on September 30 ”came within an inch of succeeding through the assassination of six of the top military command. It might well have succeeded had not Defense Minister Nasution and a number of other senior generals also maked for assassination acted fast in a dramatic counter-coup.” Of course, what Jones did not inform the Post’s readers was that the Suharto “counter-coup” had been assisted with the strong help of the CIA.

....

CIA banking and Hawaii

Meanwhile, Dunham Soetoro’s mother, Madelyn Dunham, who raised young Obama when he returned to Hawaii in 1971 while his mother stayed in Indonesia, was the first female vice president at the Bank of Hawaii in Honolulu. Various CIA front entities used the bank. Madelyn Dunham handled escrow accounts used to make CIA payments to U.S.-supported Asian dictators like Philippines President Ferdinand Marcos, South Vietnamese President Nguyen van Thieu, and President Suharto in Indonesia. In effect, the bank was engaged in money laundering for the CIA to covertly prop up its favored leaders in the Asia-Pacific region.

One of the CIA’s major money laundering fronts in Honolulu was the firm of Bishop, Baldwin, Rewald, Dillingham & Wong (BBRDW). After the CIA allowed the firm to collapse in 1983 amid charges that BBRDW was merely a Ponzi scheme, Senator Daniel Inouye of the US Senate Intelligence Committee said the CIA’s role in the firm “wasn’t significant.” It would later be revealed that Inouye, who was one of the late Alaska Senator Ted Stevens’s best friends in the Senate, was lying. In fact, BBRDW was involved heavily in funding covert CIA programs throughout Asia, including economic espionage against Japan, providing arms for Afghan mujaheddin guerrillas in their war against the Soviets and covertly supplying weapons to Taiwan. One of BBRDW’s principals was John C. “Jack” Kindschi, who, before he retired in 1981, was the CIA station chief in Honolulu. BBRDW’s chairman Ron Rewald had a counterfeit college degree certificate provided for the wall of his office by the CIA’s forgery experts and his name was inserted in university records as an alumnus.

A false history for BBRDW was concocted by the CIA claiming the firm had operated in Hawaii since it was a territory. President Obama is currently plagued by allegations that he has fake college and university transcripts, a phony social security number issued in Connecticut, and other padded resume items. Did Hawaii’s fake BBRDW documents portend today’s questions about Obama’s past?

BBRDW conducted its business in the heart of Honolulu’s business district, where the Bank of Hawaii was located and where Obama grandmother Madelyn Dunham ran the escrow accounts. The bank would handle much of BBRDW’s covert financial transactions.

Obama/Soetoro and the “years of living dangerously” in Jakarta

It is clear that Dunham Soetoro and her Indonesian husband, President Obama’s step-father, were closely involved in the CIA’s operations to steer Indonesia away from the Sino-Soviet orbit during the “years of living dangerously” after the overthrow of Sukarno. WMR has discovered that some of the CIA’s top case officers were assigned to various official and non-official cover assignments in Indonesia during this time frame, including under the cover of USAID, the Peace Corps, and the U.S. Information Agency (USIA).
 
I did click on the link and skimmed through it. However, Wayne Madsen is not someone I view as very credible. From what I've read about him he's pretty much just a common conspiracy theorist.
 
I did click on the link and skimmed through it. However, Wayne Madsen is not someone I view as very credible. From what I've read about him he's pretty much just a common conspiracy theorist.

So...none of what he said is true because you believe he thinks people conspire and you think people don't conspire?

What percent of the CIA ties to the Obama family would you believe are true?
 
I'm saying he cannot be trusted fully. Even though I doubt it, some of what he's saying may be true. However, he has little to no credibility, and credibility matters when readers are deciding whether or not they believe a story.
 
One of the CIA’s major money laundering fronts in Honolulu was the firm of Bishop, Baldwin, Rewald, Dillingham & Wong (BBRDW). After the CIA allowed the firm to collapse in 1983 amid charges that BBRDW was merely a Ponzi scheme, Senator Daniel Inouye of the US Senate Intelligence Committee said the CIA’s role in the firm “wasn’t significant.” It would later be revealed that Inouye, who was one of the late Alaska Senator Ted Stevens’s best friends in the Senate, was lying. In fact, BBRDW was involved heavily in funding covert CIA programs throughout Asia, including economic espionage against Japan, providing arms for Afghan mujaheddin guerrillas in their war against the Soviets and covertly supplying weapons to Taiwan. One of BBRDW’s principals was John C. “Jack” Kindschi, who, before he retired in 1981, was the CIA station chief in Honolulu. BBRDW’s chairman Ron Rewald had a counterfeit college degree certificate provided for the wall of his office by the CIA’s forgery experts and his name was inserted in university records as an alumnus. .

lol the USUAL SUSPECTS

Those who stay consistent to the Fascist Totalitarian establishment, no matter how illegal, are rewarded. Sentor Daniel INOUYE received $135 Million bailout for his bank, that he founded, where as substantial amount of assets are located($750K) after a few calls to US Treasury/FDIC, during the banking crisis. Market Cap today is $40 million.

Love the "Valeri Plame" CIA fronts, entertaining and very predictable.
 
I'm saying he cannot be trusted fully. Even though I doubt it, some of what he's saying may be true. However, he has little to no credibility, and credibility matters when readers are deciding whether or not they believe a story.

The only source in the US to talk about Georgia invading South Ossetia before Russia invaded Georgia, the only one calling out CNN for posting pictures of the attack on civilian apartment buildings in South Ossetia and claiming they were civilian apartments in Georgia.. and he has no credibility??

Forget about whether you think Russia had the right to attack Georgia to protect South Ossetia which had disassociated itself from Georgia and associated itself with Russia, don't you think that is a pretty major detail to leave out?? Don't you think there has to be a motive behind that??
 
I'm saying he cannot be trusted fully. Even though I doubt it, some of what he's saying may be true. However, he has little to no credibility, and credibility matters when readers are deciding whether or not they believe a story.

 
i would like to see the birth certificate. It is a little odd that he would spend so much money keeping it hidden. I am hoping that at least one state legislature passes a law that requires the certificate be shown. Then we can get this issue out of the way! I am sure by now Obama has a certificate, real or not, that would pass.
 
So Palin's a flip flopper. And? One day she supports bailouts and the next she's agin em. And I'm not "desperate" to prove anything. You are the one fighting against the numbers. The stats are that most in the GOP have doubts about Obama's birth. Deal with it......

And the facts show that much of the GOP detests the democratic process when it puts a Dem in power, and look for ways to circumvent it. Reference the Clinton impeachment.

And another fact is much of the GOP only keep their jobs through smearing others, in this case Democrats, with whatever they can get a hold of, be it death panels or Birther nonsense.
 
So...none of what he said is true because you believe he thinks people conspire and you think people don't conspire?

What percent of the CIA ties to the Obama family would you believe are true?

No, SOME of what he said is true, mixed in with out right lies to appear credible.

Mixing in a little truth is a common tactic of serial liars.
 
Hot Topics?

It's in the Politics section of Cnn.com and FoxNews.com, but if the mods want to move it, I'd understand.

No, SOME of what he said is true, mixed in with out right lies to appear credible.

Mixing in a little truth is a common tactic of serial liars.

If only 10% of it were true, I'd still be concerned.

Which ones were the outright lies? Please point them out.
 
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And the facts show that much of the GOP detests the democratic process when it puts a Dem in power, and look for ways to circumvent it. Reference the Clinton impeachment.

Clinton should have been impeached but on more serious charges.



That said, when the question was put to a constitutional law class I was in, even many of the most die hard liberals admitted that Clinton met the standard for impeachment, which is admittedly quite vague. (High crimes and misdemeanors? Perjury isn't really a "high crime", but it's more than a misdemeanor.)

And another fact is much of the GOP only keep their jobs through smearing others, in this case Democrats, with whatever they can get a hold of, be it death panels or Birther nonsense.

Actually death panels are a real possibility.



 
Clinton should have been impeached but on more serious charges.



That said, when the question was put to a constitutional law class I was in, even many of the most die hard liberals admitted that Clinton met the standard for impeachment, which is admittedly quite vague. (High crimes and misdemeanors? Perjury isn't really a "high crime", but it's more than a misdemeanor.)



Actually death panels are a real possibility.





1. Thanks for illustrating your distaste for the democratic principle.

2. NO, they are not. End of Life counseling is not a death panel.
 
1. Thanks for illustrating your distaste for the democratic principle.

Well the founding fathers had distaste for democracy so I guess I'm in good company. :rolleyes: There is a reason that impeachment is a political, and not a purely legal, process. It's a final check on a runaway presidency.

2. NO, they are not. End of Life counseling is not a death panel.

Bill Gates called them "death panels". Nice try though. Also Robert Reich did not say "We're going to try to talk people into dying early". He said We aren't going to give all of this treatment in the last few months of life. You must be Egyptian because you are living in DeNile.
 
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It's in the Politics section of Cnn.com and FoxNews.com, but if the mods want to move it, I'd understand.

If only 10% of it were true, I'd still be concerned.

Which ones were the outright lies? Please point them out.

Any connection between any g'ment program and Obama Sr was NOT established. Failed right from the start.
 
1. Thanks for illustrating your distaste for the democratic principle.

That was Ron Paul talking about Clinton murdering thousands of innocent people and being impeached for murder, how is that not "democratic" or Constitutional??


2. NO, they are not. End of Life counseling is not a death panel.

So the government is just going to keep everybody alive for as long as they can, no matter how expensive it is?? Really?? If not, then there's going to be a "death panel". Guess what? They aren't going to call it a fucking death panel, but that's what it is going to be. Any logical person knows there is going to have to be something equal to a death panel if government is going to take over health care.
 
That was Ron Paul talking about Clinton murdering thousands of innocent people and being impeached for murder, how is that not "democratic" or Constitutional??

So the government is just going to keep everybody alive for as long as they can, no matter how expensive it is?? Really?? If not, then there's going to be a "death panel". Guess what? They aren't going to call it a fucking death panel, but that's what it is going to be. Any logical person knows there is going to have to be something equal to a death panel if government is going to take over health care.

I was in a tax law class where the professor gave his take on health care. His view? Grandma needs to die. It was not because of the cost of healthcare, but because of the cost of the unfunded social security mandate. Now maybe he was just joking. Then again.....
 
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