CNN: Hawaii Gov. tries to end birther debate once and for all

[jmdrake]

You can't carry a gun in most major cities,
you get "scoped or groped" whenever you fly,
you get beaten and murdered by cops and they get to take a vacation,
your savings are going to be gone in two years,
countless brown people are getting murdered in your name,
soon it's going to be illegal to own a garden,
your job is getting shipped overseas,

But
DAMMIT, WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE?

'Cause we Americans are concerned about what the constitution says.

So let's fix attacks on the constitution by ignoring it? Yes some birthers are hypocrites and don't care about the constitution. Harry Reid is being a hypocrite for adopting Ron Paul's position on earmarks being constitutional but ignoring the fact that the constitution doesn't allow the federal government to mandate people buy insurance. But we shouldn't throw out the constitutional baby just because hypocrites dirty up the bathwater. That said, I'm not a birther. While there's some smoke I don't think there is any fire. But Obama should just release the stinking long form and be done with it. Would that satisfy all birthers? Nope. But it would satisfy most.

 

[jmdrake]

Pretty good description of the birthers.

I've told the birther nuts on a number of occasions that the reason Obama leaves this idiotic issue out there is that it HELPS HIM.

The birthers have no traction. Other than a tiny minority right wing conspiracy theorists, no one believes the birther crazies. However, the birthers are a perfect foil for Obama- whenever he is criticized, he can point to crazies like the birthers to show how unreasonable his opponents are. It gins up sympathy for Obama (he's being persecuted by crazy right wing extremists) and deflects from the real issues facing the nation (you know, IMPORTANT SHIT, like bail outs, stimulus spending, the wars, and other massive government spending programs).

The birther CTs that infest these forums make all of us look crazy, and make Dr. Paul look crazy as well. I wish the birther CTs would take their "support" to Romney or Palin or anyone other than Ron Paul.

For the record 58% of Republicans have doubts about whether Obama was born in the U.S.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0709/58_of_GOP_not_suredont_beleive_Obama_born_in_US.html

So if Ron Paul were to win every birther vote he would be assured the GOP nomination. Unfortunately most birthers already do what you wish they would do and support other candidates like Palin and Romney. Paul shouldn't embrace the birther movement because that will hurt him in the general election. But those who wish to expel birthers from our ranks are only assuring that Paul won't get past the primaries.

 

[jmdrake]

What plot? Another poster said that perhaps they put it in the paper so they could ensure welfare in case it was needed. At the time he was born, anybody could get a short form Hawaiin BC without evidence of being born there, the newspaper ads could have been their 'proof' in case the law was changed or something.




No politician has been completely vetted, I was simply stating the purpose for which vetting takes place.

You don't understand Dannno. The ONLY reason illegal aliens routinely fake birth certificates is because they want their kids to grow up to be president. That said I think this is a non issue. Obama can be beaten on the merits. And if we don't win the primaries it really won't matter anyway because Romney/Palin/Huckabee are all as bad as Obama in some way or another.

 

[Ninja Homer]

This isn't a personality attack, it is a constitutional eligibility attack.

I understand that, and I think everybody here understands that, but the left sees it as a personal attack born out of hatred. This is why Obama hasn't released a birth certificate... it keeps people divided and distracted. "Pay no attention to those paultards and teabaggers... they're just a bunch of hating birthers."

 

[RonPaulFanInGA]

One thing is for sure - after three years as an issue, it isn't just "going away".

More like the opposite until this fool gave more fodder to the WorldNetDaily crowd.

First, and apropos of nothing, my mind is blown by the fact that the governor of Hawaii remembers the president of the United States as an infant. But never mind that. Why is this tool dredging up an issue that, mercifully, had begun to go away? Hawaii’s records department received only 16 requests for Obama’s birth certificate in November, down from 50 or so a month last year. Higher courts have waved away multiple Birther petitions, and the court-martial of Lt. Col. Terry Lakin ended with him pleading guilty to failing to report for duty. This subject has no traction, in other words, either legally or in mainstream media, and thus had probably never been fringier when Abercrombie spoke up and decided to treat it as a problem that needs solving. Even his personal testimony about having seen Obama as a baby in Hawaii won’t count for anything among true believers, since he admits that he wasn’t at the hospital for the delivery — which is too bad, since it would have been fun to watch them come up with theories to explain even that inconvenient fact away. (It was a changeling!)

This guy’s now placed himself in the following position. Either he inadvertently revives the Birther movement by crusading for a new law to make long-form birth certificates public without the approval of the individuals to whom they belong or he decides nothing can be done legally and backs off, which will itself inflame Birthers by inspiring dark theories about pressure on him from the White House to quiet down. And of course, since Abercrombie’s a liberal Democrat, if he does somehow manage to produce the long-form certificate and it confirms that Obama’s birth happened as alleged, skeptics will dismiss it as a forgery planted by an ideological ally to throw Birthers off the scent of the “real” birth certificate. He can’t win here. Why would he even try?

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/12/...a-stop-to-this-birther-crap-once-and-for-all/

For the record 58% of Republicans have doubts about whether Obama was born in the U.S.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0709/58_of_GOP_not_suredont_beleive_Obama_born_in_US.html

So if Ron Paul were to win every birther vote he would be assured the GOP nomination. Unfortunately most birthers already do what you wish they would do and support other candidates like Palin and Romney. Paul shouldn't embrace the birther movement because that will hurt him in the general election. But those who wish to expel birthers from our ranks are only assuring that Paul won't get past the primaries.

Must be why McCain successfully chose to make a big issue of J.D. Hayworth being a birther in the 2010 Republican Senate primary in a state (Arizona) whose legislature passed a "birther bill" to get on the ballot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xULUb98TNwk

 

[jmdrake]

I understand that, and I think everybody here understands that, but the left sees it as a personal attack born out of hatred. This is why Obama hasn't released a birth certificate... it keeps people divided and distracted. "Pay no attention to those paultards and teabaggers... they're just a bunch of hating birthers."

For the last time the majority of republicans doubt whether Obama was born in Hawaii. Nobody thinks it's the "paultards" except for gatekeepers inside the Ron Paul movement itself. If we succeed in winning over enough republicans to win the nomination many of them will be birthers. That's just a fact of life that we might as well get use to and quit fretting over.

 

[Bruno]

More like the opposite until this fool gave more fodder to the WorldNetDaily crowd.

Did you miss this from the article? The HI governor's statements are a result of this type of legislation, not vice versa.

Lawmakers in some states, including Texas, are trying to keep Obama off the ballot in 2012 by seeking to pass legislation demanding that presidential candidates show their actual birth certificate.

 

[AxisMundi]

Honestly guys, use your head...you're on liberty forums. You're supposed to be smarter than the average sheeple! Nobody spends millions keeping their records closed unless they have something to hide. Even Chris Matthews is starting to wonder for goodness sake!

There is no law, Constitutional Code, or otherwise, stating that any public servant is required to show any private citizen any private information whatsoever.

Proof of citizenship is shown to the applicable authorities when one takes office as a Senator and a President.

Let's say your neighbor's cousin claimed you were born in England, and therefor you are not a natural born citizen. Does your neighbor have any right to sue you to force you to show him your birth certificate? No, no private citizen has any authority to demand your birth certificate.

The g'ment does, and does so for security clearance purposes, and has done so and given BHO a clean bill of health as far as being a natural born citizen of this country.

 

[AxisMundi]

Sure, he could do that.
Unless he can't.



Not true, I am neither right wing nor a conspiracy theorist, and I believe them, because the man is older than me and my birth certificate was not created using a laser printer, because the technology didn't exist when I was born, so logically I can not accept that his was.

The difference is that I simply don't give a shit, for all the reasons I already listed.

Go to your local county clerk and ask for a copy of your BC.

I'll even send you the cost.

Guess what, you will get a short form, not the long, printed out on the spot.

 

[S.Shorland]

Find some tall black lads from Washington.Get them dressed up in Masai tribal garb and shouting 'Barry,our brother!' slogans on the steps of Congress.They'd get on TV and maybe smoke out a response.

 

[AxisMundi]

Did you miss this from the article? The HI governor's statements are a result of this type of legislation, not vice versa.

Lawmakers in some states, including Texas, are trying to keep Obama off the ballot in 2012 by seeking to pass legislation demanding that presidential candidates show their actual birth certificate.

Republican held states, go figure.

 

[jmdrake]

More like the opposite until this fool gave more fodder to the WorldNetDaily crowd.



http://hotair.com/archives/2010/12/...a-stop-to-this-birther-crap-once-and-for-all/



Must be why McCain successfully chose to make a big issue of J.D. Hayworth being a birther in the 2010 Republican Senate primary in a state (Arizona) whose legislature passed a "birther bill" to get on the ballot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xULUb98TNwk

And your point? John McCain, an incumbent senator and former GOP nominee, barely won his primary bid! And the main reason he won was off the endorsement of his VP pick that he doesn't like. Oh yeah, and Palin is a birther.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/03/palin-goes-birther-obama_n_379634.html

 

[jmdrake]

Republican held states that Ron Paul needs to clinch the nomination, go figure.

Fixed it for ya.

 

[RonPaulFanInGA]

And your point? John McCain, an incumbent senator and former GOP nominee, barely won his primary bid!

I thought my point was rather clear. McCain used Hayworth's birtherism against him effectively in a closed Republican primary and successfully painted him as a kook. And you're here basically stating that one needs be a birther to win a GOP primary; and yet I doubt you could name any true open, outspoken birthers that won statewide election in 2010 as non-incumbents.

Secondly, McCain won by a 56% and 32% margin over Hayworth. A real squeaker! And in a strong anti-incumbent year in which incumbent Republican Senators like Bob Bennett and Lisa Murkowski were losing their primaries.

 

[jmdrake]

I thought my point was rather clear. McCain used Hayworth's birtherism against him effectively in a closed Republican primary and successfully painted him as a kook. And you're here basically stating that one needs be a birther to win a GOP primary; and yet I doubt you could name any true open, outspoken non-incumbent birthers that won a statewide election in 2010.

Secondly, McCain won by a 56% and 32% margin over Hayworth. A real squeaker! And in a strong anti-incumbent year in which incumbent Republican Senators like Bob Bennett and Lisa Murkowski were losing their primaries.

I see you continue to totally ignore Sarah birther Palin's endorsement of McCain. Do you have any exit polling data to suggest to you how many of Palin's birther supporters went ahead and voted for McCain anyway? You play the hand that you're dealt. If you can keep certain voters on board with a wink and a nod of an endorsement, and then go after your opponent on his weak spot, than do it. Ans as for it being an "anti incumbent" year, most republican incumbents still won their primaries.

Now as to your question about non incumbent birthers winning in 2010...it depends on the definition of "birther". If by "birther" you mean someone who has openly doubted whether Obama was born in Hawaii, then that includes Rand Paul. Some folks here thought he'd be hurt by saying that. Clearly he wasn't. If on the other hand you mean "someone who is 100% sure that Obama isn't a citizen and will stick to that belief even if Obama releases the long form birth certificate" than sure you're right. But that just means radical extremists have a hard time winning anything. But most folks at RPF who question Obama's birth don't fall into the "even if he releases the long form I still think he's ineligible" category.

 

[klamath]

Fixed it for ya.

The trouble is JM I don't believe Axis is a RP supporter so that arguement won't sway him.

 

[AxisMundi]

Fixed it for ya.

Indeed, then maybe this Birther nonsense will stop.

 

[AxisMundi]

The trouble is JM I don't believe Axis is a RP supporter so that arguement won't sway him.

No, your trouble is picking key words out of my argument to fit your idea of The Enemy, so you can ignore my arguments without any thought.

 

[Matt Collins]

My guess?

There is something on the long form that is embarrassing.


I think the long form might say that he is "negro" or "mulatto" or even "Caucasian". The term "negro" is obviously archaic to today's society so I could see why they wouldn't want it being tossed around. But if it says that he is "mulatto" or "mixed" or "Caucasian" that would mean that he is "not black" which has the potential of affecting him politically.

AND

There is maybe the possibility that the long form says that his parents were unmarried at the time of his birth, which would then make him a "bastard". Everyone calls him that anyway, so now it would just be a legal fact

 

[klamath]

No, your trouble is picking key words out of my argument to fit your idea of The Enemy, so you can ignore my arguments without any thought.

Are you a RP supporter? I don't consider you an enemy even if you were a Obama supporter. You have your own belief like everyone else around here.