Church is Boring. Hymns are annoying.

[georgiaboy]

Put me in the column of those who think the vast majority of Sunday morning church experiences are BORING!!

Week in, week out, same old same old.

Think about it, we're worshipping the freakin' Creator of the universe, thanking Him for who He is and what He's done and continues to do in our lives, learning about Him and trying to understand what He has for us, and somehow we are able to convert this into the nap session before football.

May God have pity on us.

There are some places out there, thank God, that are doing a good, even great, job at making the Sunday morning experience not only not boring, but actually engaging, inspiring, and useful to even those who aren't lifetime Christians. Sadly, they are still the exception rather than the rule.

I think the church universal must address this issue in a world saturated with wicked cool concerts, lectures, conventions, and the like.

Depending on your locale, if there is nothing going on of interest, there is the online choice, which is actually a great option these days.

Nothing can replace the personal experience in a group setting done well and done right, though.

 

[fisharmor]

I should just admit that I don't get worship in general.

Welcome to the last 500 years of Christianity.

What you're suffering from - what we're all suffering from - is a near-total absence of knowledge on the matter.
I'd bet the rent that greater than 95% of Christian clergy fall into one of two categories:

1) The ones who for one reason or another don't place any importance on form of worship at all, and
2) The ones who do it for nostalgic reasons.

Neither category is in any way, shape, or form prepared to defend one form of worship over others.

I mean, there are entire denominations where becoming a cleric is a mail-order process.

In the remaining percentage of clergy who actually can speak about worship, most of those are taking a lonely stand in a particular parish, most likely attached to a greater church body which frowns on traditional worship forms.

Now stop to consider this for a second: The entire sum total of the job is to run the worship services.
That's not an overstatement.
The entire sum total of the job is to run the worship services.

This goes back to Acts 6:

Now in these days when the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint by the Hellenists arose against the Hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution. And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty.

The role of the guy running the services is to run the services.
He's not supposed to be hosting weekend sex education retreats.
He's not supposed to be running a food bank.
He's not supposed to be writing books.

He's supposed to be the expert on the matter. He's supposed to know what the different parts of the service are and why we do them. He's supposed to be able to hold his own in defense of them.

He's supposed to be answering Videodrome's questions.
He's not supposed to buckle to every tiny bit of pressure he gets from his flock.

He's supposed to be in charge.

The way many people describe God makes him seem like something so far out of human experience I find it hard to believe he needs human acknowledgement this badly on a weekly basis.

He's also supposed to be nipping this in the bud.

I'm not altogether sure where to start with ripping this apart.

 

[dannno]

I also tend to think even Jesus would find church boring.

Does Jesus have the power to create a religion so boring that he himself could not stay awake during church?

 

[VIDEODROME]

I also wonder how necessary church is. I feel like it's leftover from the days of Oral Tradition. Back then, you did need to round up the community to remind them of their roots repeatedly because there really wasn't a mass media.

It seems like today, if a person is inclined to participate in religion they could just read the Bible or other books on their Kindle or other Tablet PC. Or flip on the preacher on a streaming media service and doze in the recliner chair at home.

 

[Matthew5]

I also wonder how necessary church is. I feel like it's leftover from the days of Oral Tradition. Back then, you did need to round up the community to remind them of their roots repeatedly because there really wasn't a mass media.

It seems like today, if a person is inclined to participate in religion they could just read the Bible or other books on their Kindle or other Tablet PC. Or flip on the preacher on a streaming media service and doze in the recliner chair at home.

While it is true that gathering was especially important for grounding, I believe it still is. When I attend liturgy, I'm "plugged" in to the community of believers that have been gathering for 2,000 years. My senses are connected to the divine, something that is very difficult to do sitting at home on an ipad. So the in-person meeting is just as important today as it was back then. I mean think about this forum...how difficult is to to read people some times? The digital connection is far too cold to actually convey any spiritual connection.

And as I said earlier, we cannot partake in Communion when we don't gather. This is the main focus of all that we do. So participation in religion is more than just reading and listening to sermons, it's participating in God's energies and, of course, loving others (something else that's difficult to do at home alone).

 

[fisharmor]

While I continue to turn away from this man's teaching, I think it's instructive to read the last words of the man who was at the forefront of the first mass-media induced upheaval of the Church, Martin Luther.

"1. No one can understand Virgil's Bucolics unless he has been a shepherd for five years. No one can understand Virgil's Georgics, unless he has been a farmer for five years.
2. No one can understand Cicero's Letters (or so I teach), unless he has busied himself in the affairs of some prominent state for twenty years.
3. Know that no one can have indulged in the Holy Writers sufficiently, unless he has governed churches for a hundred years with the prophets, such as Elijah and Elisha, John the Baptist, Christ and the apostles. Do not assail this divine Aeneid; nay, rather prostrate revere the ground that it treads. We are beggars: this is true."

I doubt you'll be teaching yourself New Testament Greek in your spare time, and I know there is no mass-media approach to this, let alone Hebrew.

If you wanted to create a mass-media approach to Christianity, I'm sure it would be well received. For you see, such a thing has not yet been attempted.

Plenty of self-help seminars and feel-good aphorisms have been committed to mass-media and mislabeled as Christianity. But to date, Christianity has not appeared in mass-media.

Personally, I think that unanswerable fact speaks volumes.

 

[Matthew5]

While I continue to turn away from this man's teaching, I think it's instructive to read the last words of the man who was at the forefront of the first mass-media induced upheaval of the Church, Martin Luther.

"1. No one can understand Virgil's Bucolics unless he has been a shepherd for five years. No one can understand Virgil's Georgics, unless he has been a farmer for five years.
2. No one can understand Cicero's Letters (or so I teach), unless he has busied himself in the affairs of some prominent state for twenty years.
3. Know that no one can have indulged in the Holy Writers sufficiently, unless he has governed churches for a hundred years with the prophets, such as Elijah and Elisha, John the Baptist, Christ and the apostles. Do not assail this divine Aeneid; nay, rather prostrate revere the ground that it treads. We are beggars: this is true."

I doubt you'll be teaching yourself New Testament Greek in your spare time, and I know there is no mass-media approach to this, let alone Hebrew.

If you wanted to create a mass-media approach to Christianity, I'm sure it would be well received. For you see, such a thing has not yet been attempted.

Plenty of self-help seminars and feel-good aphorisms have been committed to mass-media and mislabeled as Christianity. But to date, Christianity has not appeared in mass-media.

Personally, I think that unanswerable fact speaks volumes.

There already exists a mass media approach to Christianity. T.D. Jakes has webcasts, TV shows (on TBN and BET), and a large social media presence. One does not need to leave their home to partake in this. Most of these pastors have no theological training whatsoever, Jakes is an undergrad dropout and has no theological training. It wasn't until recently that he became a Trinitarian after being a "bishop" for over twenty years.

Not to pick of Jakes too much, but I get what you're saying. This brand of prosperity, "feel good gospel", is the kind of stuff that is churned out in mass for entertainment purposes. This is the kind of stuff you get mixed up with when you seek an individual-focused church.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Is Jakes even a Trinitarian now?

He certainly isn't a Christian, never was. "Prosperity Gospel" preachers are sending people straight to Hell.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Is Jakes even a Trinitarian now?

He certainly isn't a Christian, never was. "Prosperity Gospel" preachers are sending people straight to Hell.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is this "Prosperity Gospel"? Is that preached by those ministers on radio/TV who claim to have found The Code To Fortune And Happiness "hidden" in scripture?

 

[Matthew5]

Is Jakes even a Trinitarian now?

He certainly isn't a Christian, never was. "Prosperity Gospel" preachers are sending people straight to Hell.

According to a recent interview he claims to now be Trinitarian. That's still a long time to "shepherd" a huge flock and not believe in a basic Christian belief (1982ish-2012).

Pardon my ignorance, but what is this "Prosperity Gospel"? Is that preached by those ministers on radio/TV who claim to have found The Code To Fortune And Happiness "hidden" in scripture?

Well the term has different meanings for different people. Generally speaking, I use it to describe a theology that is believer-centric on material gain using cherry-picked Gospel verses. Essentially, you're a child of God and if you have enough faith, God will give you things. Some use "Name it and Claim it", where you can speak things into existence due to your standing with God. Much like Oprah's "The Secret"...which coincidentally enough, was a featured speaker at Jakes' mega conference.

There's other ways to apply that phrase as well.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is this "Prosperity Gospel"? Is that preached by those ministers on radio/TV who claim to have found The Code To Fortune And Happiness "hidden" in scripture?

Pretty much.

According to a recent interview he claims to now be Trinitarian. That's still a long time to "shepherd" a huge flock and not believe in a basic Christian belief (1982ish-2012).

Yeah, I don't care that he claims to be Trinitarian now. Does he know that he sinned grievously when he rejected the idea that Jesus is God? Does he know he was lost when he led people astray with his "teaching"?

As far as I see it, he's still an unregenerate God-hater who needs to repent.

Well the term has different meanings for different people. Generally speaking, I use it to describe a theology that is believer-centric on material gain using cherry-picked Gospel verses. Essentially, you're a child of God and if you have enough faith, God will give you things. Some use "Name it and Claim it", where you can speak things into existence due to your standing with God. Much like Oprah's "The Secret"...which coincidentally enough, was a featured speaker at Jakes' mega conference.

Yep. Pretty much. There's nothing "Christian" about any of that.
There's other ways to apply that phrase as well.[/QUOTE]

 

[eduardo89]

Yeah, I don't care that he claims to be Trinitarian now. Does he know that he sinned grievously when he rejected the idea that Jesus is God? Does he know he was lost when he led people astray with his "teaching"?

As far as I see it, he's still an unregenerate God-hater who needs to repent.

Nice to see that in addition to infallibly knowing you are going to Heaven you know what's in another man's heart and are able to judge the state of his salvation.

You're becoming worse than Sola these past few days, all I see in your posts is the hate Satan puts in your heart.

 

[VIDEODROME]

Hmmm.....


What if Heaven is boring.....?

 

[Matthew5]

Hmmm.....


What if Heaven is boring.....?

If one were a pleasure-seeker, I suppose it could be. But then again, would you be there in the first place if you didn't delight in the Lord?

 

[Matthew5]

Yeah, I don't care that he claims to be Trinitarian now. Does he know that he sinned grievously when he rejected the idea that Jesus is God? Does he know he was lost when he led people astray with his "teaching"?

As far as I see it, he's still an unregenerate God-hater who needs to repent.

This is somewhat uncharacteristic of you, judging by past conversations that we've had. I don't want to derail here, but who has urinated in your cheerios as of late?