Christie not interested in making up with Rand Paul

[cajuncocoa]

I agree with Dean on this. The subject of abortion needs to be brought up every time a Republican politician tries to claim libertarian credentials.

It is possible to be libertarian AND pro-life. And I'm not interested in allowing Howard Dean to define libertarianism any more than I would want Glenn Beck to define it.

 

[Christian Liberty]

I still wanna know, does Chris Christie support gay marriage?

Because in that picture he looked like he wanted to get one

 

[matt0611]

Harry Reid is pro-life. Rand Paul is a Social Conservative: he wants the government to restrict the behaviors (and medical procedures) he doesn't approve of. Don't you see the problem with this from the libertarian standpoint?

So you want outlaw murder and restrict my right to murder people? Oh noes you're not libertarian!

Libertarianism is the belief that people shouldn't initiate force against others.

Some libertarians believe abortion is initiating force against unborn babies, as I do. That doesn't mean they're not libertarian, it means they disagree with you about abortion.

 

[specsaregood]

I wouldn't have offered him a beer.

The smart reply by Christie would have been to invite Rand up to NJ to have a beer. NJ has a handful of really good microbreweries. I mean he is supposed to be campaigning. Why not make some national news and try to promote people coming to NJ to try out the beer?

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

I still wanna know, does Chris Christie support gay marriage?

Because in that picture he looked like he wanted to get one

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/18/chris-christie-gay-marriage_n_3617201.html

 

[JCDenton0451]

It is possible to be libertarian AND pro-life. And I'm not interested in allowing Howard Dean to define libertarianism any more than I would want Glenn Beck to define it.

I see a fundamental conflict between a Christian and Libertarian worldview when it comes to abortion. If you want to restrict abortion becuase it's "immoral", "unethical" and "against the will of God", that simply means you Christian values trump your libertarian tendencies. From the libertarian standpoint, a woman's right to have control over her own body is paramount.

 

[PatriotOne]

I wouldn't have offered him a beer.

Rand should have offered to buy him a BLT instead.

 

[cajuncocoa]

I see a fundamental conflict between a Christian and Libertarian worldview when it comes to abortion. If you want to restrict abortion becuase it's "immoral", "unethical" and "against the will of God", that simply means you Christian values trump your libertarian tendencies. From the libertarian standpoint, a woman's right to have control over her own body is paramount.

I am a Christian, but I'm not bringing religious views into this argument. I believe life begins at conception from a scientific point of view (the new life has unique DNA at that point).

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

I see a fundamental conflict between a Christian and Libertarian worldview when it comes to abortion. If you want to restrict abortion becuase it's "immoral", "unethical" and "against the will of God", that simply means you Christian values trump your libertarian tendencies. From the libertarian standpoint, a woman's right to have control over her own body is paramount.

You mean (or at least you should mean) "from [your own] libertarian standpoint..."

There are libertarians on both sides of the issue. Those of us who are pro-life libertarians accept that. Oddly enough though, pro-choice libertarians like yourself can't seem to come to terms with the fact that people can differ on issues.

But that's OK. You have your little club and apparently Rand or Ron isn't part of it anyway, so the issue is moot.

 

[matt0611]

I see a fundamental conflict between a Christian and Libertarian worldview when it comes to abortion. If you want to restrict abortion becuase it's "immoral", "unethical" and "against the will of God", that simply means you Christian values trump your libertarian tendencies. From the libertarian standpoint, a woman's right to have control over her own body is paramount.

When I was an atheist I was STILL just as pro-life as I am now that I'm a Christian. Because I still recognized unborn babies as having a right to LIFE.

From a libertarian standpoint a woman has the right to control over her own body...unless she's using it to initiate force on another life.

Everyone's morals have to come from somewhere or else they're just arbitrary.

 

[mad cow]

The smart reply by Christie would have been to invite Rand up to NJ to have a beer. NJ has a handful of really good microbreweries. I mean he is supposed to be campaigning. Why not make some national news and try to promote people coming to NJ to try out the beer?

New Jersey was devastated by Hurricane Sandy and it will take hundreds of billions of dollars to get them back on their feet.
I doubt there is a single tavern left standing in the entire State.

 

[BuddyRey]

I see a fundamental conflict between a Christian and Libertarian worldview when it comes to abortion. If you want to restrict abortion becuase it's "immoral", "unethical" and "against the will of God", that simply means you Christian values trump your libertarian tendencies. From the libertarian standpoint, a woman's right to have control over her own body is paramount.

With all due respect, you're making a couple of hasty assumptions here, the foremost of these being that the whole of the pro-life debate is easily encapsulated in religious arguments.

There are secular and even atheist pro-lifers. I'm not an atheist, but I like to think my own opposition to abortion has more basis in a strict reading of the Non-Aggression Principle than in the Bible. I don't dislike it because it's "against the will of God" (in fact, I've never seen any Scriptural mention of the issue at all), but because it entails an act of aggression against a growing life with a beating heart, brainwaves, nervous system, etc.

 

[specsaregood]

./

 

[JCDenton0451]

I am a Christian, but I'm not bringing religious views into this argument. I believe life begins at conception from a scientific point of view (the new life has unique DNA at that point).

Yeah, but life has no rights: bacteria are life too. A zygote is not equivalent to an actual living human person. Even then, why should any woman be forced to sustain its existence? Pregnancy and birth is a costly, punishing ordeal - why should any woman be subjected to this against her will?

 

[brushfire]

Devastating...

 

[JCDenton0451]

With all due respect, you're making a couple of hasty assumptions here, the foremost of these being that the whole of the pro-life debate is easily encapsulated in religious arguments.

There are secular and even atheist pro-lifers. I'm not an atheist, but I like to think my own opposition to abortion has more basis in a strict reading of the Non-Aggression Principle than in the Bible.

The evidence is overwhelming: "pro-life" movement is rooted in the Evangelical community. The atheists and Jews are the most pro-choice groups in the US. Most people don't realise the extent to which their religion influences their entire worldview.

 

[BuddyRey]

The evidence is overwhelming: "pro-life" movement is rooted in the Evangelical community. The atheists and Jews are the most pro-choice groups in the US. Most people don't realise the extent to which their religion influences their entire worldview.

Well, since I don't consider myself religious (spiritual, but not religious), and know many atheists and agnostics who have similar ethical qualms with abortion, I think you're painting a pretty diverse range of opinions and arguments with a very broad brush.

 

[Origanalist]

Yeah, but life has no rights: bacteria are life too. A zygote is not equivalent to an actual living human person. Even then, why should any woman be forced to sustain its existence? Pregnancy and birth is a costly, punishing ordeal - why should any woman be subjected to this against her will?

Oh the horrors.

Where did you get this garbage drilled into your head at? Having kids is one of the greater things in life. Ask any mother here if she regrets any of it. I'm sick of this idea being pushed about how awful having children is. What utter nonsense, it is a beautiful thing.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Yeah, but life has no rights: bacteria are life too. A zygote is not equivalent to an actual living human person. Even then, why should any woman be forced to sustain its existence? Pregnancy and birth is a costly, punishing ordeal - why should any woman be subjected to this against her will?

Bacteria is not human life.

That said, trying to have a discussion/debate on abortion is a debate that nobody wins. I've never seen such a discussion where one side changes the opinion of anyone on the other. Either someone believes that life begins at conception or they don't. If they do, they will see the zygote/embryo/fetus/baby as a human life worth protecting; and if they don't, they won't.

 

[JK/SEA]

Moderates and liberals are not social conservatives for the most part. If you think ignoring this demographic will get you elected, just ask Mitt Romney how that worked out for him.

also, i suspect the big reason Ron Paul had big money bombs early on, was because of moderates and liberals.