Chaos At Nevada Democratic Convention; DNC Leaders Flee Building...

[Petar]

Democrats are being driven right into our arms.

I hope we have enough sense to do something more than scare them away. And nothing will scare them away faster than a forum full of Trumpsucking cucks.

Except that those fleeing Democrats actually want to hurt Hillary (unlike you) and that is why they will be voting for Trump

 

[acptulsa]

Except that those fleeing Democrats actually want to hurt Hillary (unlike you) and that is why they will be voting for Trump

Still you try to perpetuate the myth that they don't want to hurt them both equally. Despite the fact that I'm talking about the anti-war crowd, and no matter how many times he flip flops and how hard his shills try to spin stuff, Trump is firmly on record as wanting to conquer the whole of the Middle East and send in the supertankers.

You can try to tie us up until doomsday with the 'is he or isn't he' game. But if we are talking about allying with the anti-war crowd, it doesn't matter if Trump is Establishment or Globalist or whatever. He is an imperialist. He wants to haul the oil here faster than we can refine it or build tank farms to store it in. He has said it, and it cannot be unseen or un-heard.

These people are going to find an alternative to both of those non-choices. We can ally with them or we can spurn them. Or we can let shills pretending to be us chase them off. But there is no way in hell we can convince them that the 'Bomb them into oblivion and take their oil' guy is anti-war. That is the one thing guaranteed not to work.

 

[Petar]

Still you try to perpetuate the myth that they don't want to hurt them both equally. Despite the fact that I'm talking about the anti-war crowd, and no matter how many times he flip flops and how hard his shills try to spin stuff, Trump is firmly on record as wanting to conquer the whole of the Middle East and send in the supertankers.

Disaffected Sanders supporters understand that there are really only two options in this race, and that is why they are most likely going to vote for the only option that will actually hurt Hillary Clinton and the globalist neocons that she represents (Donald Trump).

 

[acptulsa]

Disaffected Sanders supporters understand that there are really only two options in this race, and that is why they are most likely going to vote for the only option that will actually hurt Hillary Clinton and the globalist neocons that she represents (Donald Trump).

Some of the disaffected Sanders supporters are socialists, and they consider 'she's a globalist' a selling point.

The rest are anti-war, and those two warmongers look exactly the same to them.

So, which ones are switching to Trump again? All of those Democrats who don't want there to be a female president? All of those Democrats who want to curb immigration? All of those Democrats who love casino owners preying on gambling addicts...?

Pray, do tell us what in all the world could cause a Democrat to hate Clinton more than Trump. What is this magical thing?

 

[Petar]

Some of the disaffected Sanders supporters are socialists, and they consider 'she's a globalist' a selling point.

The rest are anti-war, and those two warmongers look exactly the same to them.

So, which ones are switching to Trump again? All of those Democrats who don't want there to be a female president? All of those Democrats who want to curb immigration? All of those Democrats who love casino owners preying on gambling addicts...?

Pray, do tell us what in all the world could cause a Democrat to hate Clinton more than Trump. What is this magical thing?

Mostly revenge, I guess.

Some of them may also have a clue that putting America first is necessarily going to result in less war-mongering than what globalists do.

 

[acptulsa]

Mostly revenge, I guess.

Some of them may also have a clue that putting America first is necessarily going to result in less war-mongering than what globalists do.

You're guessing that revenge will cause them to support someone who makes a point of saying he will conquer the middle east and pump out the oil.

And I'm telling you that these people--who are actual people, and we need not guess what they'll do, we can actually ask them--do not consider candidates who 'put America first' any less likely to start imperialistic wars than globalists are. In fact, if you were ever to talk with one, you might just find they spent years thinking that supporting globalists was the path to peace, because they did not yet realize that globalists are just as imperialist as nationalists.

And some of them still haven't figured it out.

Keep guessing.

 

[CPUd]

How not to get anti-war Democrats to vote for you:

 

[Petar]

You're guessing that revenge will cause them to support someone who makes a point of saying he will conquer the middle east and pump out the oil.

And I'm telling you that these people--who are actual people, and we need not guess what they'll do, we can actually ask them--do not consider candidates who 'put America first' any less likely to start imperialistic wars than globalists are. In fact, if you were ever to talk with one, you might just find they spent years thinking that supporting globalists was the path to peace, because they did not yet realize that globalists are just as imperialist as nationalists.

And some of them still haven't figured it out.

Keep guessing.

Globalists are necessarily more imperialist than nationalists are.

Maybe some stupid Democrats are finally starting to understand this.

I personally know hipsters who prefer Trump to Hillary just because it seems "ironic" and "contrarian".

And again, simple revenge against the DNC is an impulse that cannot be underestimated.

How many Paul supporters wanted Obama to win just to punish the GOP for how he was mistreated?

Probably most.

How not to get anti-war Democrats to vote for you:

Failed attempt at this:



Interesting in how flat it falls.

 

[acptulsa]

Globalists are necessarily more imperialist than nationalists are.

Maybe some stupid Democrats are finally starting to understand this.

I personally know hipsters who prefer Trump to Hillary just because it seems "ironic" and "contrarian".

And again, simple revenge against the DNC is an impulse that cannot be underestimated.

How many Paul supporters wanted Obama to win just to punish the GOP for how he was mistreated?

Probably most.

Any nationalist can be an imperialist. Any contrarian and fan of irony can be converted to a third party voter. Few people who crave revenge against the DNC crave anything less against the RNC. Most Ron Paul people probably did expect Obama to win, and none shed any tears for Republicans when he did, but I can guarantee the only ones who actually voted for him were the ones who figured he would start fewer wars than his opponents.

And as for calling Democrats stupid, that is more than a little like shooting oneself in one's own foot, and I'm not going to do it.

And therein lies the problem with the liberty "movement".

I came on this forum years ago as a leftist to learn what I could about this guy, Ron Paul, who was talking about the Federal Reserve and wanted to end the wars. The more I learned the more zealous I became. Ron was the total package. I tainted myself by getting involved with the GOP to get Republicans to support Ron. I threw a frickin tea party to spread the word about Ron and educate people about the Federal Reserve, co-operative banking, the 10th Amendment... I personally converted more people than I can count. ON ISSUES. WITH PEOPLE. WHO VOTED.

I don't even care if you vote. More will change based on SCOTUS than with whoever is elected. However, I do believe that by turning their noses away from "socialists" and "leftists" the "liberty movement" is wasting an opportunity to share the non-aggression principle with the voters most likely to embrace it.

 

[Petar]

Any nationalist can be an imperialist. Any contrarian and fan of irony can be converted to a third party voter. Few people who crave revenge against the DNC crave anything less against the RNC. Most Ron Paul people probably did expect Obama to win, and none shed any tears for Republicans when he did, but I can guarantee the only ones who actually voted for him were the ones who figured he would start fewer wars than his opponents.

And as for calling Democrats stupid, that is more than a little like shooting oneself in one's own foot, and I'm not going to do it.

A nationalist certainly can be an imperialist, but it takes a globalist to conspire to destroy ones own nation.

Who do you honestly believe is more keen to start endless wars?

Donald Trump, who wants to find an efficient, low-cost way to take the oil, or Hillary Clinton, who wants to continue endless wars for the purpose of sinking the USA into as much debt as possible so that the nation can be swallowed up by its international debtors?

Sanders supporters absolutely are stupid (insomuch as the truly believe in socialism) but that does not mean that even they might not be able to tell that Donald Trump is simply a lot less evil than Clinton.

And not a single voter anywhere who is going after Clinton with a vengeance is going to sabotage themselves by voting for any third party that can only really hurt Donald Trump.

 

[CPUd]

This is what the Trump voter looks like:

 

[euphemia]

We'll never forget what happened in 2012. But now we know, without the shadow of a doubt, that the DNC is just as corrupt and evil as the RNC. They are two sides of the same coin. Either side will break whatever rules they want, lie, cheat, and then flee and have the lights turned off, in order to coronate whatever candidate the establishment deems worthy.

You're just now seeing that?

 

[RJ Liberty]

You're just now seeing that?

Heh. Oh, no. But this is another excellent example.

 

[euphemia]

LOL, I wish DNC leadership would flee the country.

And take the RNC leadership with them. RNC leadership has been asleep at the wheel for the last twelve years. Every election year they suddenly wake up and scurry around like cockroaches. Do they not know what a calendar is. They should have been putting out some feelers two years ago, at least, to see who would be a viable candidate. Then all of a sudden it's 2016, an election year. All the moaning and pearl clutching is because of their own leadership failures.

 

[euphemia]

Now we are all kind of desperate. We need Rand in the Senate. And as much as we dislike McCain, we need him there, too, to maintain a majority. We can't really afford to lose a single seat.

I'm inclined to think that we throw our eggs in the Trump basket and work on whatever House and Senate seats we can get or maintain. Then we immediately get some liberty candidates going. There will be a full House reelection in two years. If we do enough to get this message out, we won't have Trump monopolizing the media as mch as he does now. We can get some liberty people moved out front and start generating liberty conversations.

I think Trump works with a very close inner circle that includes his family. As a businessman, I think he will listen and go with the most marketable message. We are the most logical and reasoned group out there, and we can convince nominal conservatives (or whatever you want to call them) to adopt our message. We are the ones who understand how to have a compelling conversation, and I think we should have it in more open circles where there are people to convince. I'm a little surprised how well my meagre contributions are resonating. Some of you all could be center stage if you would branch out a little. There are a lot of liberty thinkers on Fox and Yahoo. They aren't getting much of an argument from liberals, or even rank-and-file Republicans.

 

[CPUd]

I'll not put even one single egg in a Trump basket.

 

[nikcers]

Now we are all kind of desperate. We need Rand in the Senate. And as much as we dislike McCain, we need him there, too, to maintain a majority. We can't really afford to lose a single seat.

I'm inclined to think that we throw our eggs in the Trump basket and work on whatever House and Senate seats we can get or maintain. Then we immediately get some liberty candidates going. There will be a full House reelection in two years. If we do enough to get this message out, we won't have Trump monopolizing the media as mch as he does now. We can get some liberty people moved out front and start generating liberty conversations.

I think Trump works with a very close inner circle that includes his family. As a businessman, I think he will listen and go with the most marketable message. We are the most logical and reasoned group out there, and we can convince nominal conservatives (or whatever you want to call them) to adopt our message. We are the ones who understand how to have a compelling conversation, and I think we should have it in more open circles where there are people to convince. I'm a little surprised how well my meagre contributions are resonating. Some of you all could be center stage if you would branch out a little. There are a lot of liberty thinkers on Fox and Yahoo. They aren't getting much of an argument from liberals, or even rank-and-file Republicans.

Give me liberty candidates to vote for, or give me death.

 

[RJ Liberty]

Now we are all kind of desperate. We need Rand in the Senate. And as much as we dislike McCain, we need him there, too, to maintain a majority. We can't really afford to lose a single seat.

I'm inclined to think that we throw our eggs in the Trump basket and work on whatever House and Senate seats we can get or maintain. Then we immediately get some liberty candidates going. There will be a full House reelection in two years. If we do enough to get this message out, we won't have Trump monopolizing the media as mch as he does now. We can get some liberty people moved out front and start generating liberty conversations.

I think Trump works with a very close inner circle that includes his family. As a businessman, I think he will listen and go with the most marketable message. We are the most logical and reasoned group out there, and we can convince nominal conservatives (or whatever you want to call them) to adopt our message.

Euphemia, this is the best argument for Trump that I've seen on these forums. It doesn't convince me in any way, but at least I understand where you're coming from.

To me, it is crazy to try to support the GOP in any way. They are as corrupt and foul as the Democrats, and the only reason I held out hope for the GOP was because of Ron Paul. But the GOP hates Ron Paul, treated him like garbage, and so the GOP and Faux News can go to hell.

I won't be throwing my eggs in the Trump basket. I'm voting Third Party, and it will likely be the LP, whoever gets the LP nomination. I'm not voting for the equal of two evils.

 

[euphemia]

I have not drunk the Kool Aide. Trump is not the answer. We are. And we can use this tiny window of opportunity to make the difference. I'm tired of always being on the losing side. We have a chance to find our voice again if we can get a candidate to listen. Most of the people we elect won't listen because they are politicians. Trump is not one. He's a businessman and knows something about marketing. If he can see that we make up a significant market share, then we have a shot. He practices democracy in his private business, and I think he understands something about a real market share. We are it, and we can convince him and others to move toward liberty.

 

[nikcers]

I have not drunk the Kool Aide.- I'm tired of always being on the losing side. We have a chance to find our voice again if we can get a candidate to listen.

Maybe we can change Trumps mind even though he has been a liberal democrat for like 70 years. I don't think so, but I think you are drinking something if you aren't drinking cool aid. You can be on the winning side though, we don't want to be on the winning side, we want to be on the winning side of history and ideas.