Calvinism and the Truth

TomL

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Some know what Calvinism is. Some have heard of Calvinism, but do not know what it is. Then there are those who have never heard of Calvinism, and that is the group I wish I was in. Unfortunately, I am in the first group.

There is another term often associated with Calvinsm, which is Reformed Theology. This system of theology claims that God is totally sovereign, which I agree with. After all, it is written in Scripture that, "Our God is in Heaven, and He has done whatever He pleases." Yes, our God does do whatever He pleases. But what He pleases is at question.

It is really difficult to differenciate between reformed theology and universalism. Both body of doctrines claim that God is sovereign. The difference is that universalism claims that everyone will be saved, because God is lovingly sovereign. That God causes all things including wickedness and sin, and he would not send people to Hell because they have no control what they do, that God is in control of everything man does. Calvinism pretty much says the same thing, except they believe that God has chosen, before the foundation of the World, those who would be saved and those who would not be saved.

At question is this. What is the nature of God? There is a brief article on that subject here: http://sonofdavid.myfreeforum.org/about294.html . But, it needs to be established here. Is God sovereign? Yes. Is God loving? Yes. These facts are undeniably taught in Scripture. But that is not all that is taught about God. It is written that Jesus said, "Be perfect as my Father in Heaven is perfect." In both of these systems of theology, this fact is largely ignored. Since God is perfect, it stands to reason that there is no imperfection in Him. If there be anything imperfect, we know that it did not come from God. It is impossible to be perfect and imperfect at the same time. Perfection and imperfection are total opposites. All of God's attributes are perfect. His love is perfect. His sovereignty is perfect. Nowhere does Scripture teach that God created imperfection. God created the world with everything in perfect order, including man. Adam and Eve were perfect when they were created. But, they became imperfect when they disobeyed God. So. even in the case of man, God did not create anything imperfect.

To prove that God has created imperfection, people will turn to Isaiah 45.7. It reads, in the KJV, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." The NKJV reads this way, "I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things." If anyone would do a word study on the word "evil," in Isaiah 45.7, you will find the proper translation is indeed "calamity." What we would call, "natural disasters," is the calamity of Isaiah 45.7. Calamities such as earthquakes, hurricanes and snowstorms. God is in control of our weather. And the statement regarding forming light, and creating darkness, is like saying, God created day and night. To use this verse to prove God created evil, meaning wickedness and sin, is just plain wrong.

Calvinism and Universalism alike are an attack on the character of God. In order for Calvinism or Universalism to be true, there has to be unrighteousness with God, and that is not true. No claim that there is unrighteousness or wickedness with God is supported by Scripture.

Several years ago, a man went into a an Amish school house and slaughtered five innocent, young girls. In a discussion with a pastor of a church of the Presbyterian Churches of America (PCA), he said that God "caused" that to happen. Now, I do believe that anyone with normal Christian sensibilities would agree that the act that was carried out that day in the Amish schoolhouse in Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania, was an unrighteous and wicked act. The question is; did God cause that act? Universalists and Modern Calvinists say yes. If John Calvin were here today, I believe he would rebuke these people. John Calvin is the man whose teachings original Calvinism is based on. In all my studying, and in all my learning, I never heard that John Calvin taught that God causes wickedness and sin. That God is the author of unrighteousness. These modern Calvinists have taken Calvinism to a whole new level.

The idea that God causes wickedness and sin is so unscriptural that it is hardly worth refuting. But, this doctrine seems to be gaining ground in theological circles. And, for the life of me, I can't understand how anyone can take part in this insanity. And it really doesn't take much to refute. Psalm 5.4 states, "For you are not a God that takes pleasure in wickedness, nor shall evil dwell with you." There are many verses of Scripture that teaches the very same thing. That should be enough to refute any notion that God causes wickedness and sin.

I am going to make a statement that many probably will not understand. There is a big difference between knowing something will happen, and causing something to happen. God has foreknowledge of events. So, God knew that the tragedy at Nickel Mines was going to happen. He allowed it to happen. But God did not cause it to happen. It is not in the nature of God to cause sin. But, from the beginning, knowing sin would happen He planned the remedy for sin. And we know what that remedy is. He sent His only begotten Son into the world, who was sacrificed for the sins of the world. Now, Universalists and Modern Calvinists say that God knew sin would happen because He caused sin to happen. But that is already refuted above based on Psalm 5.4.

The truth is, God is perfect in His nature, in His righteousness, in His goodness. And He does not do anything contrary to His nature. And any notion that suggests that He does is just plain wrong. God must abide by His own nature of perfection. And that is the truth.
 
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Calvanism contradicts salvation.

If everyone is pre-chosen /predestined to be a christian or to burn in hell then you undermine the very life of Jesus Christ and his actions of dying and resurrecting on the cross to gift salvation to those who received him as the Lord and savior.

To say that such actions of Christ cannot save people,and that the new gift of the Holy Spirit has no power to alter a persons life/destiny through prayer is to undermine the very belief of grace and salvation of God.

I completely disagree with the calvanist view of the world and how it places judgement above the grace,love and salvation of God.

Jesus came to earth to break all boundries that couldn't be broken spiritually so that we could meet God,and if you think for one moment that the Holy Spirit would have no relevant power to alter a persons path then why pray at all?
 
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Calvanism contradicts salvation.

If everyone is pre-chosen /predestined to be a christian or to burn in hell then you undermine the very life of Jesus Christ and his actions of dying and resurrecting on the cross to gift salvation to those who received him as the Lord and savior.

To say that such actions of Christ cannot save people,and that the new gift of the Holy Spirit has no power to alter a persons life/destiny through prayer is to undermine the very belief of grace and salvation of God.

I completely disagree with the calvanist view of the world and how it places judgement above the grace,love and salvation of God.

Jesus came to earth to break all boundries that couldn't be broken spiritually so that we could meet God,and if you think for one moment that the Holy Spirit would have no relevant power to alter a persons path then why pray at all?

Very good analysis! Wish I'd read this before engaging in endless debates on the subject. :(
 
Very good analysis! Wish I'd read this before engaging in endless debates on the subject. :(

I believe that since Jesus died and resurrected that he altered everything on earth from that point spiritually. the Holy Spirit was received on the day of Pentecost and dwells in some believers and has the power to change things. I view it as a way of God the father delegating power through the trinity and that is how the trinity works to save humans.
 
Calvanism contradicts salvation.

If everyone is pre-chosen /predestined to be a christian or to burn in hell then you undermine the very life of Jesus Christ and his actions of dying and resurrecting on the cross to gift salvation to those who received him as the Lord and savior.

To say that such actions of Christ cannot save people,and that the new gift of the Holy Spirit has no power to alter a persons life/destiny through prayer is to undermine the very belief of grace and salvation of God.

I completely disagree with the calvanist view of the world and how it places judgement above the grace,love and salvation of God.

Jesus came to earth to break all boundries that couldn't be broken spiritually so that we could meet God,and if you think for one moment that the Holy Spirit would have no relevant power to alter a persons path then why pray at all?

Historically your concerns are proven to be misplaced.

The modern missionary movement was started by William Carey, a Calvinist. Carey went to India not in spite of his Calvinism, but because of it. How could an Englishmen possibly believe he could through his own power persuade people half a world away and from a completely different culture. He went because believed that he was called to go and that through his witness to the people of India God would summon the elect of India.
 
Go through the 5 points of TULIP and show them to be incorrect.
Calvinism affirms God's grace in man's salvation, and other systems teach that man has to have some part in his own salvation.
 
Yes, God does allow bad things to happen to people. But we need to keep in mind too that much more good has been done through Jesus and His death on the cross as the atoning sacrifice for the sin of the world.
 
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Meaningless conservation because there is no proof of a god [its existence]...everything else is just hot-air. Wake up!
 
sounds like a chip on your shoulder

a chip? not sure what you mean. people of faith fail to use common sense and reason. We human beings have been socialized and indoctrinated into our faiths as children or have "found" god because of some persona trauma. To engage in a debate on what "god" intended, if you are a believer, is the height of arrogance, more so than someone like me, an agnostic...at least I admit, I don't know...nor can I know. I think it is time humanity woke up to this fact and grew up.

And oh, if the thread just said "Calvinism", I would have by-passed it. But now someone is using the word truth..I had to stop by and interject.
 
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Meaningless conservation because there is no proof of a god [its existence]...everything else is just hot-air. Wake up!

You are absolutely correct. There is no proof, that can convince anyone of God's existence who has no faith. Even the proof that does exist is a matter of faith.
 
You are absolutely correct. There is no proof, that can convince anyone of God's existence who has no faith. Even the proof that does exist is a matter of faith.

Yep. Faith is NOT truth. It is simply another word for belief...people believe that god exists, they cannot know that god exists. I like how Marx's describes religion: Religion is the opium of the masses..an Illusion.
 
Yep. Faith is NOT truth. It is simply another word for belief...people believe that god exists, they cannot know that god exists. I like how Marx's describes religion: Religion is the opium of the masses..an Illusion.

But I exercise my faith by believing in the truth. That God exists is truth, or can you prove there is no God?
 
But I exercise my faith by believing in the truth. That God exists is truth, or can you prove there is no God?

Let me get this straight. You are saying that because you are exercising your faith you believe god's existence is truth. I get that. But to me that is a completely irrational statement...you are saying what you believe to be true...BUT that doesn't make it true and that's my point. That is what I mean by "wake-up." It's just like all the 9-11 truthers out there..they believe 9-11 was an inside job...BUT do we really know it was? Again, believing something is true doesn't make it true...

Part of "growing up" means entertaining two totally conflicting points of view. The fact that one cannot prove the existence of god doesn't provide evidence that god exists...
 
Let me get this straight. You are saying that because you are exercising your faith you believe god's existence is truth. I get that. But to me that is a completely irrational statement...you are saying what you believe to be true...BUT that doesn't make it true and that's my point. That is what I mean by "wake-up." It's just like all the 9-11 truthers out there..they believe 9-11 was an inside job...BUT do we really know it was? Again, believing something is true doesn't make it true...

Part of "growing up" means entertaining two totally conflicting points of view. The fact that one cannot prove the existence of god doesn't provide evidence that god exists...

you are a super troll.
 
you are a super troll.

people resort to ad hominid attacks when they cannot respond intellectually. As I said, leave the word "Truth" out of the topic and then I could see my post as trolling.

The truth is, God is perfect in His nature, in His righteousness, in His goodness. And He does not do anything contrary to His nature. And any notion that suggests that He does is just plain wrong. God must abide by His own nature of perfection. And that is the truth.

My posts are in direct reference to these statements. Posts like this can be considered the same as FOX News propaganda. IN this case, this is philosophical and intellectual propaganda. Those of us interested in The Truth must shut down falsehoods and distortions, just like we do to the news that distorts and lies about Dr. Paul.
 
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