C4l - read this now!

Wow I'm sure glad to see this. I expressed my concerns awhile back and was labeled a troll...if you question it you go in the troll bin and I'm probably ignored by a lot of folk on here. I don't see the significance of paying 35 dollars to be able to access tools etc...if this is a GRASSROOTS EFFORT. I guarantee you eventually the "tools" will cost you money also. Someone told me a little while back this wastn' a "welfare" organization <eyeroll> I heard these folk runnin C4L were also tied to Restore the Republic...another internet marketing endeavor. Why , with all of the expertise of the grassroots in web design, did the C4L people turn down FREE assistance...which would probably have made the website much better? I love the message..and I dont' consider activists should have to PAY for the tools to be active! This isn't grass roots whatsoever..is is probably a TOP DOWN created by a clique of people who found a way to make a living through the enthusiastic efforts of people who believe in a cause. All of this activism could be done on the local level..you MUST keep your money on the local level and work that way rather than send your dough to the national internet marketing effort. Sorry..but I have to agree with the skeptics. C4L has cut the grass roots activism out..seems like. Sad to see it. I think there should be acountability and oversight at least. tones (I hope i dont' get banned)
 
That's right...we are the footsoldiers..why are you charging your army if you want to get a message out? YOu don't even have to pay for a meet up. Yahoogroups does the same thing for free...you can set up your meetings and automatic reminders..everything..for FREE. This endeavor MUST be done from teh bottom UP...the money really needs to be kept at the local level. If you want to get the message out STOP copywriting your dvd's etc...and allow the grassroots to be able to copy them on their own. the groups on the local level can print out ONE copy of a fliar and go to office depot and make tons of black and white copies for very little money. The message is what is important...not a full color brochure. Vista print is a great tool..I use it all the time. You can get a lot of free materials there and just pay shipping, I get 250 business cards, 100 post cards, a free rubber stamp. Gotta pay shipping but it's well worth it for what you get. I'm going to put together a program called "Grassroots Activism on a Shoestring" lololl. I LOVE The message...that's the most important thing...and that should be free to all! tones
 
That's right...we are the footsoldiers..why are you charging your army if you want to get a message out? YOu don't even have to pay for a meet up. Yahoogroups does the same thing for free...you can set up your meetings and automatic reminders..everything..for FREE. This endeavor MUST be done from teh bottom UP...the money really needs to be kept at the local level. If you want to get the message out STOP copywriting your dvd's etc...and allow the grassroots to be able to copy them on their own. the groups on the local level can print out ONE copy of a fliar and go to office depot and make tons of black and white copies for very little money. The message is what is important...not a full color brochure. Vista print is a great tool..I use it all the time. You can get a lot of free materials there and just pay shipping, I get 250 business cards, 100 post cards, a free rubber stamp. Gotta pay shipping but it's well worth it for what you get. I'm going to put together a program called "Grassroots Activism on a Shoestring" lololl. I LOVE The message...that's the most important thing...and that should be free to all! tones

Me-thinks you are making a mountain out of a molehill regarding the $35... Most orgs collect "dues" from members. Further, I find your continued objections, on this one point, a petty distraction.
 
Skeptics are always distractions aren't they? Ever heard of the Delphi Technique? That's where "facilitators" separate those who are raising points and questions against the perceived goal...and commence to make them seem like the "bad guy"..you know, saying to them they are a "distraction" etc. Here, I'll post it for ya. It's not the 35 bucks...it's the loss of grassroots activism. Sure, all of those guys charge dues...but you really don't have to do ya in these difficult economic times? Believe me, lol...I sent an email to Freedom Force also about this too. Why not just ask for donations, but don't block those who choose not to donate..or can't afford to pay from being able to fully particiapte. Heck...if you cap it at 35 bucks...rather than making it a "love offering" ...you might lose money. Someone might have donated 100 bucks...I like the donation idea. It would all balance out. Here is the Delphi Technique:

Using the Delphi Technique to Achieve Consensus

How it is leading us away from representative government to an illusion of citizen participation

The Delphi Technique and consensus building are both founded in the same principle - the Hegelian dialectic of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis, with synthesis becoming the new thesis. The goal is a continual evolution to "oneness of mind" (consensus means solidarity of belief) -the collective mind, the wholistic society, the wholistic earth, etc. In thesis and antithesis, opinions or views are presented on a subject to establish views and opposing views. In synthesis, opposites are brought together to form the new thesis. All participants in the process are then to accept ownership of the new thesis and support it, changing their views to align with the new thesis. Through a continual process of evolution, "oneness of mind" will supposedly occur.

In group settings, the Delphi Technique is an unethical method of achieving consensus on controversial topics. It requires well-trained professionals, known as "facilitators" or "change agents," who deliberately escalate tension among group members, pitting one faction against another to make a preordained viewpoint appear "sensible," while making opposing views appear ridiculous.

In her book Educating for the New World Order, author and educator Beverly Eakman makes numerous references to the need of those in power to preserve the illusion that there is "community participation in decision-making processes, while in fact lay citizens are being squeezed out."

The setting or type of group is immaterial for the success of the technique. The point is that, when people are in groups that tend to share a particular knowledge base, they display certain identifiable characteristics, known as group dynamics, which allows the facilitator to apply the basic strategy.

The facilitators or change agents encourage each person in a group to express concerns about the programs, projects, or policies in question. They listen attentively, elicit input from group members, form "task forces," urge participants to make lists, and in going through these motions, learn about each member of a group. They are trained to identify the "leaders," the "loud mouths," the "weak or non-committal members," and those who are apt to change sides frequently during an argument.

Suddenly, the amiable facilitators become professional agitators and "devil's advocates." Using the "divide and conquer" principle, they manipulate one opinion against another, making those who are out of step appear "ridiculous, unknowledgeable, inarticulate, or dogmatic." They attempt to anger certain participants, thereby accelerating tensions. The facilitators are well trained in psychological manipulation. They are able to predict the reactions of each member in a group. Individuals in opposition to the desired policy or program will be shut out.

The Delphi Technique works. It is very effective with parents, teachers, school children, and community groups. The "targets" rarely, if ever, realize that they are being manipulated. If they do suspect what is happening, they do not know how to end the process. The facilitator seeks to polarize the group in order to become an accepted member of the group and of the process. The desired idea is then placed on the table and individual opinions are sought during discussion. Soon, associates from the divided group begin to adopt the idea as if it were their own, and they pressure the entire group to accept their proposition.

How the Delphi Technique Works

Consistent use of this technique to control public participation in our political system is causing alarm among people who cherish the form of government established by our Founding Fathers. Efforts in education and other areas have brought the emerging picture into focus.

In the not-too-distant past, the city of Spokane, in Washington state, hired a consultant to the tune of $47,000 to facilitate the direction of city government. This development brought a hue and cry from the local population. The ensuing course of action holds an eerie similarity to what is happening in education reform. A newspaper editorial described how groups of disenfranchised citizens were brought together to "discuss" what they felt needed to be changed at the local government level. A compilation of the outcomes of those "discussions" influenced the writing of the city/county charter.

That sounds innocuous. But what actually happened in Spokane is happening in communities and school districts all across the country. Let's review the process that occurs in these meetings.

First, a facilitator is hired. While his job is supposedly neutral and non-judgmental, the opposite is actually true. The facilitator is there to direct the meeting to a preset conclusion.

The facilitator begins by working the crowd to establish a good-guy-bad-guy scenario. Anyone disagreeing with the facilitator must be made to appear as the bad guy, with the facilitator appearing as the good guy. To accomplish this, the facilitator seeks out those who disagree and makes them look foolish, inept, or aggressive, which sends a clear message to the rest of the audience that, if they don't want the same treatment, they must keep quiet. When the opposition has been identified and alienated, the facilitator becomes the good guy - a friend - and the agenda and direction of the meeting are established without the audience ever realizing what has happened.

Next, the attendees are broken up into smaller groups of seven or eight people. Each group has its own facilitator. The group facilitators steer participants to discuss preset issues, employing the same tactics as the lead facilitator.
Participants are encouraged to put their ideas and disagreements on paper, with the results to be compiled later. Who does the compiling? If you ask participants, you typically hear: "Those running the meeting compiled the results." Oh-h! The next question is: "How do you know that what you wrote on your sheet of paper was incorporated into the final outcome?" The typical answer is: "Well, I've wondered about that, because what I wrote doesn't seem to be reflected. I guess my views were in the minority."

That is the crux of the situation. If 50 people write down their ideas individually, to be compiled later into a final outcome, no one knows what anyone else has written. That the final outcome of such a meeting reflects anyone's input at all is highly questionable, and the same holds true when the facilitator records the group's comments on paper. But participants in these types of meetings usually don't question the process.

Why hold such meetings at all if the outcomes are already established? The answer is because it is imperative for the acceptance of the School-to-Work agenda, or the environmental agenda, or whatever the agenda, that ordinary people assume ownership of the preset outcomes. If people believe an idea is theirs, they'll support it. If they believe an idea is being forced on them, they'll resist.

The Delphi Technique is being used very effectively to change our government from a representative form in which elected individuals represent the people, to a "participatory democracy" in which citizens selected at large are facilitated into ownership of preset outcomes. These citizens believe that their input is important to the result, whereas the reality is that the outcome was already established by people not apparent to the participants.
 
I got that Delphi Technique from the FREEDOM FORCE website. I'm not implying that C4L is doing this...I just don't want to be banned from raising questions and having concern for the loss of our GRASS ROOTS activism...that's all. I m not the enemy..not at all. I am FOR the Liberty movement. TONES
 
I got that Delphi Technique from the FREEDOM FORCE website. I'm not implying that C4L is doing this...I just don't want to be banned from raising questions and having concern for the loss of our GRASS ROOTS activism...that's all. I m not the enemy..not at all. I am FOR the Liberty movement. TONES

Banned ??? GMAB :rolleyes:

ISTM that the majority do not have a problem with the $35. Further, it seems a petty complaint compared to other issues.

RE- the delphi technique, who are you implying is doing this? Me? LOL...
 
loll...welll..kinda sorta...but I dont' think it's an agenda. I am not the enemy. I want to preserve the grassroots activism...it was a wonderful thing. That's what seemed to generate the excitement, ya know..everyone had the freedom to generate their own ideas ..not follow some kind of program. I am not against the Liberty movement..i want to see grassroots activism preserved..you know, at the local level. That's all . It's really not about money. tones
 
loll...welll..kinda sorta...but I dont' think it's an agenda. I am not the enemy. I want to preserve the grassroots activism...it was a wonderful thing. That's what seemed to generate the excitement, ya know..everyone had the freedom to generate their own ideas ..not follow some kind of program. I am not against the Liberty movement..i want to see grassroots activism preserved..you know, at the local level. That's all . It's really not about money. tones

One of the problems I have with C4L is the claim that they are building a bottom-up grassroots network. The reality has seemed quite the opposite. So, it seems, we agree on a deeper level. That is why I have made a point about the $35. It is just a surface issue, it is not going to be changed, and harping on it seems counter-productive to our aims...

Asking how the money will be used seems far more relevant...
 
Oh really....?

Hmm... yes all very interesting.

I personally know the owner of the company who designed the new CFL site... I happened to meet him at the Rally for the Republic and went out to the bar for a couple of nights with him. I own a business and do website design as well so we talked a lot about the website.

He told me he was severely frustrated. He was having major problems communicating with anyone within the CFL. By the way it sounds, it has become very bureaucratic, personal, etc... not unlike our current Congress today. He didn't really feel that the CFL was really for the people, for us. It was disheartening to hear, and he was at his wit-ends trying to get the site to be grassroots, from the bottom up, and was about to quit the project because his passion was dying fast. My bro and a few other friends joined in on the conversation and we really encouraged him to stick with it and to get his vision accomplished.

Anyways... thought posting this might shed some light. There definitely is some differences of opinion within the CFL and unfortunately the internals of the CFL might be looking more and more like the internals of the Libertarian party... if you know what I mean. I'm not sour, nor dour, and actually never wanted to say anything because I wanted to believe the best... but maybe it's time to spill some of what I know.

If anyone has any ideas to make this work... I'm all ears! I have his contact info so I can directly talk to him.

Glad I heard this. One more for the list...

R3VOLUTION!
 
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