Blowback from Recount = End of Us!!

[LinearChaos]

agreed. get out there and make the difference is 10x more important.

Do you really think there will be any difference when the vote is rigged?

Do you really think that canvassing and sign waving will overcome voter fraud and Diebold?

 

[VoluntaryMan]

we could go in 50/50 with the Obama people for a full state-wide recount, because in my view he also was cheated.

Cheated by the Clinton machine swinging anything over 8% of the RP vote to Hillary.

 

[LinearChaos]

if everyone demanding a recount had talked to hundreds of people in nh (I went for OLFD) you would realize the offline world is a lot different than the online world. In the average neighborhood supporters are few and far between. Most people make their decision based on MSM information. Be realistic, don't waste effort with recounts, focus on getting the word out and educating people IN THE REAL PHYSICAL WORLD. That is what we really need.

Sorry but it seems pretty obvious to me that Diebold > GOTV.

So did those missing 31 votes that they "incorrectly" entered as 0 in Sutton come from the physical world or the Internet world? Because, you know, that REALLY happened, in the REAL world.

 

[asgardshill]

The Sutton Scenario

What's It Gonna Cost?

31 votes (that allegedly didn't get counted in Sutton NH) ...

divided by $67,000.00 (the cost to the campaign to order the recount) ...

That's $2161 and change per vote.

What's the upside of a recount?

There are a couple:

- They might find a few more votes for Ron Paul (but might also find a few more for Guiliani, Huckabee, McCain, et al). Unintended consequences suck.

- They might find enough votes to boost Ron Paul to 3rd place.

What's the downside of a recount?

There are several:

- Get ready to lather rinse repeat for each state where you find even the slightest error or irregularity.

- They might find FEWER votes for Ron Paul, et al.

- Nobody is going to jail as the result of a recount because anybody can make a math or transcription error. Without concrete proof that a particular vote counter cheated, its instant plausible deniability.

- If any recount doesn't find any irregularities, the MSM depicts Ron Paul as America's newest political crybaby.

- Your best and brightest campaign staff are too busy demanding and coordinating recounts to actually work on getting Ron Paul elected.

- These are just the primaries. This entire process repeats itself during the General Election.

Is this trip really necessary?

 

[AFM]

67k is for the whole state.
Not just Sutton.

 

[asgardshill]

Does that cover Iowa too? Nevada? South Carolina?

 

[LinearChaos]

What's the upside of a recount? They might find a few more votes for Ron Paul (but might also find a few more for Guiliani, Huckabee, McCain, et al). Unintended consequences suck.

Yeah, because those extra votes don't help show that there is fraud or anything... I'm sure they will just tally up the "new" votes, the establishment will bake us cookies, and the whole thing will be dropped like no fraud occurred...

News flash: All of those "extra votes", no matter who they are for, constitute the fraud.

You know, because it isn't about breaking the law, exposing voter fraud, and sending a message to the people that did it (e.g. fuck with the vote and you go to prison), it is about 100 extra votes in NH

 

[Catatonic]

Is recount the best solution we can come up with? You really think the results will be that different?

This election was done using proven fraud machines run by a guy with a history of election fraud. We need to push for REAL CHANGE, especially in the upcoming states, not a friggin recount. Unless you think you know of a way to fraud proof the recount. This would only be possible for counties that don't use electronic voting, there's no way to have a recount on diebold machines and have a different result.

 

[dianeh]

Let Obama Do It

That would throw the whole process in to question. He might actually do something about this, unless he's cut a deal with Hillary already to be VP and doesn't want to piss her off this badly.

 

[VoluntaryMan]

Do you really think there will be any difference when the vote is rigged?

Do you really think that canvassing and sign waving will overcome voter fraud and Diebold?

That's the problem, isn't it? If the vote tally is just going to be whatever those who count the votes say it is, then what's the point. A recount addresses the issues of voter confidence, that our votes means something, and will be counted fairly, and that there will be repercussions when they aren't. If there is cause, ask for the recount. If there is no cause, shut up and go back to work. But don't tell people that they've been cheated, but that it's just part of the system, and that there's nothing they can do about it. Would you work for me, if I told you I was going to pay you whatever the hell I felt like paying you? If so, call me.

 

[asgardshill]

Yeah, because those extra votes don't help show that there is fraud or anything... I'm sure they will just tally up the "new" votes, the establishment will bake us cookies, and the whole thing will be dropped like no fraud occurred...

News flash: All of those "extra votes", no matter who they are for, constitute the fraud.

You know, because it isn't about breaking the law, exposing voter fraud, and sending a message to the people that did it (e.g. fuck with the vote and you go to prison), it is about 100 extra votes in NH

Prove that any fraud occurred. People make math and transcription errors all the time - my checkbook hasn't balanced 100 percent snce the Truman Administration. And the people actually counting the votes are paid a little bit better than a McDonalds fry cook, but not by much.

 

[BLuegreengrey]

always question fraud, push the message

 

[nate895]

Guys, if we demand a recount we are fringe, it's over.

On top of that we are cry babies. Buh buh buh we didn't beat the Ghoul!

Stop hanging in these forums. Look around you, have you ever seen a car with a Ron Paul bumper sticker?

Keep spreading the message. Email people with Youtube links, keep handing out self printed flyers. 10 people X 100 flyers = 1000 flyers. Print them out on your local printer. Or go to kinkos and spend U$10 for christs sakes.

Just do your jobs. Get out of this place.

What you can do is contact the media. Let them run with the story. Let them get busted, if it is false. Where is DIGG.COM when we need it? We can cast doubt, that is important. And that furthers our cause. Call a radio talk show. Plant the scrutiny seed into people . Cast doubt. We must undermine the trust in the system. If we go all the way to Nov 4th and we have A DAY WHERE AMERICA STOPPED, TO VOTE FOR RON PAUL, THERE IS NO DENYING THAT

I'm telling you guys, get Keyes to do it if only candidates can.

 

[LinearChaos]

Prove that any fraud occurred. People make math and transcription errors all the time - my checkbook hasn't balanced 100 percent snce the Truman Administration. And the people actually counting the votes are paid a little bit better than a McDonalds fry cook, but not by much.

math like using your pencil to put in a 0 instead of a 31? I hope your teacher gave a lot of partial credit, because those kind of "math and transactions" errors = fail around the first grade.

"Human error" cannot justify why a 31 was reported as a 0. It is NO excuse, because they should have been PAYING attention. They have ONE job, to properly count and report the vote, and they didn't do it. Is is unacceptable, period, and there is no excuse for it.

 

[kodoandkang]

I posted this in another thread but since I disagree fundamentally with the OP I feel it is warranted to post it again here:


why are people concerned about "blowback"? you are concerned that people will think ron paul is a fringe candidate and has loonies for followers? guess what, that ship sailed a long time ago. no one has given ron paul anything. everything ron paul and his followers have achieved so far they have gotten by fighting tooth and nail, inch by damn inch. the whole point of this campaign is to tell the truth anywhere and everywhere, "blowback" be damned.

it is a very slippery slope when you start doing things based on how you will be perceived. the next step maybe we can tone down all that polarizing talk about ending the fed. then maybe we should keep the troops in iraq a little longer and then..well you get the point. you start compromising and it's over. a diluted ron paul is not ron paul.

the beauty of paul's message though is there is no need to compromise. he has gained a huge following precisely because he tells the truth in the starkest of terms. just because he is in the national limelight these days there is no need to pretend he is a "proper" candidate.

 

[asgardshill]

math like using your pencil to put in a 0 instead of a 31? I hope your teacher gave a lot of partial credit, because those kind of "math and transactions" errors = fail around the first grade.

"Human error" cannot justify why a 31 was reported as a 0. It is NO excuse, because they should have been PAYING attention. They have ONE job, to properly count and report the vote, and they didn't do it. Is is unacceptable, period, and there is no excuse for it.

How do you know that they wrote in a "0" instead of the "31" that allegedly should have been there? They could have just left the column blank, the pencil lead broke as they started to write in the "31", or they were distracted by a shiny object. Without a full investigation (which is NOT covered by the cost of the recount), we'll never know for sure.

Seriously, go ahead and hire the biggest baddest vote fraud detectives and investigators on the planet and sic 'em on New Hampshire. Hell, throw in CSI Miami, MacGyver, and Sergeant Joe Friday of the LAPD too. I'll be the one applauding - I'll even chip in to help with airfare, the best room that Motel 6 has to offer, and a nice fruit basket. But all I'm saying is that, at the end of the day, nobody is going to jail for this and Ron Paul won't benefit by one whit - bank on it. There's just too much plausible deniability.

 

[Veritaserum]

Stop hanging in these forums. Look around you, have you ever seen a car with a Ron Paul bumper sticker?

I've been pleasantly surprised by just how many bumper stickers and Ron Paul signs I've seen around here.

I agree with you. We need to calm down and get back to work.

 

[AgentSmith]

Kill the campaign? Folks the campaign is already dead. Things like this vote recount is how we can bring attention to the corruption in this country.

 

[RP=RonPaul=RedPill]

Kill the campaign? Folks the campaign is already dead. Things like this vote recount is how we can bring attention to the corruption in this country.

+100000

We could get a billion votes and Ron Paul would still lose.

 

[Ron2Win]

I posted this in another thread but since I disagree fundamentally with the OP I feel it is warranted to post it again here:


why are people concerned about "blowback"? you are concerned that people will think ron paul is a fringe candidate and has loonies for followers? guess what, that ship sailed a long time ago. no one has given ron paul anything. everything ron paul and his followers have achieved so far they have gotten by fighting tooth and nail, inch by damn inch. the whole point of this campaign is to tell the truth anywhere and everywhere, "blowback" be damned.

it is a very slippery slope when you start doing things based on how you will be perceived. the next step maybe we can tone down all that polarizing talk about ending the fed. then maybe we should keep the troops in iraq a little longer and then..well you get the point. you start compromising and it's over. a diluted ron paul is not ron paul.

the beauty of paul's message though is there is no need to compromise. he has gained a huge following precisely because he tells the truth in the starkest of terms. just because he is in the national limelight these days there is no need to pretend he is a "proper" candidate.

He is trying to take down a system. Any frontal attack to a system strengthens that system. Think infiltration and doubt. Think changing people