Biblical defense of slavery

[Christian Liberty]

If people just sold themselves into slavery, that would simply be a voluntary transaction. Why would any libertarian or liberty-minded person be opposed to that?

Hmmm... This is a good question, and it relates back to contract theory.

Now, there's certainly nothing wrong (according to libertarian principles) with someone choosing to live as a slave in exchange for whatever. The real issue for libertarians relates to the duration of the contract. What if the slave later wants to leave? Is it possible to permanently sell yourself into slavery?

Most libertarian theorists, including Rothbard and Kinsella, say no. They would say that only property can be transferred via contract, not life. Thus, while it may be possible for the "Master" to make a contract where he is paid some sum of money at whatever point the slave chooses to terminate the contract, nobody can ever be forced to remain in a position of slavery even if he made a contract. In other words, a contract in which you sell yourself for the rest of your life isn't legally binding (I think this is the Rothbardian position, somebody who knows better correct me if I'm wrong.)

By contrast, Walter Block takes the position that you actually can sell yourself just the same as if you owned yourself, and thus that it is completely possible to sell yourself permanently into slavery, at which point you would be owned by your master and he could force you to remain a slave against your will (since you signed a contract.)

So basically, everyone (I think) would agree that if two people wanted to enter into an arrangement where one would live as the slave of the other that that would be fine. The questions start arising when the "slave" wants to leave? Does he have an inalienable right to do so (even if he may have to pay financially for doing so), or did he sign that right away when he made that contract?

I prefer Rothbard's approach personally, but am broadly "fine" with either approach.

 

[pcosmar]

 

[amy31416]

What the hell?

 

[Ronin Truth]

And the LORD sayeth:

"Do NOT eat this fruit, or else. Oh, on second thought go ahead and just see what happens."

 

[robert68]

Some more pro slavery verses:

1 Peter 2 (King James Version)
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

Ephesians 6:5-9 (King James Version)
5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

Colossians 3:22-25 (King James Version)
22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;
23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

Titus 2:9-10 (King James Version)
9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;
10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Telling slaves to be obedient and Jesus supporting flogging disobedient slaves clearly points to slavery being a holy institution. Bad slaves should be whipped like they deserve!

That is so much bullshit and you know it. Or should. God never refers to slavery as holy.

 

[Miss Annie]

Some more pro slavery verses:

1 Peter 2 (King James Version)
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

Ephesians 6:5-9 (King James Version)
5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

Colossians 3:22-25 (King James Version)
22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;
23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

Titus 2:9-10 (King James Version)
9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;
10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

I guess you didn't read Pete's post here...... http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?456934-Biblical-defense-of-slavery&p=5605316&viewfull=1#post5605316
It perfectly answers your comment.

 

[HVACTech]

What the hell?

it has to do with peaches, love.
(it's a guy thing)(yeah, yeah,)

 

[Muwahid]

If America had laws regarding the treatment of slaves, and the responsibilities of the slave to their master... that implicitly approves of the institution of slavery.

I wouldn't suggest the bible promotes slavery, but it doesn't outlaw it thus slavery continued under Christians. Now today, we view slavery as something very abhorrent under any circumstance, but I don't think we should as theists fall into the ever-changing-secular rules of morality. It shifts rapidly, things which were immoral yesterday are moral today, it makes the very idea of morality arbitrary.

I don't support slavery, but under certain circumstances it's very understandable. What if someone who had no money had to pay off a debt, and worked as a "slave" until that debt was paid?

Unfortunately as time went on slavery was made an evil thing, rather than seeing a slave as seeing someone who owed a debt to society or a person, they were not seen as humans at all, treated like animals, not allowed even basic necessities except for what would keep them alive (and often times not enough to keep them alive), were not allowed education... that doesn't help society at all.

 

[robert68]

I guess you didn't read Pete's post here...... http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?456934-Biblical-defense-of-slavery&p=5605316&viewfull=1#post5605316
It perfectly answers your comment.

No it doesn't, and it's not true "slavery existed everywhere in history", and was quite minimal in many places. Fortunately, a great many people in history either never believed in or rejected pro slavery messages like there are in many Bible verses.

 

[Brett85]

Some more pro slavery verses:

1 Peter 2 (King James Version)
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

Ephesians 6:5-9 (King James Version)
5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

Colossians 3:22-25 (King James Version)
22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;
23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

Titus 2:9-10 (King James Version)
9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;
10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

I don't see the word "slave" anywhere in those verses.

 

[libertyjam]

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[Peach]

Slavery existed everywhere in History, Moses went to free the slaves that were in Egypt. And slavery was practiced before that,, since the first Nimrod started ruling over people.

the bible speaks about how to deal with,, and it speaks to both the high and low,,
What is taught is the freeing of Slaves,, and the treatment of slaves until that time,, and how to deal if you are in the position of a slave,, until the time you are free.

Hebrew male slaves every 7 years and the year of Jubilee, that's all. But the plain political incorrect truth is that God approves of slavery and slavery is sanctioned in the bible from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[Todd]

I've been here a while and this is one of the top 10 worst threads I've ever seen on here if Skippy is serious.

 

[wizardwatson]

People love to comment on the bible without the vaguest intention of actually believing anything in it. Slavery exists today in the form of government tyranny.

How about deciding first if you believe the bible? Then maybe you can start interpreting esoteric scripture. Most of what you actually need to know is expressed plainly.

Do you believe that Christ is the Son of God come in the flesh to save His own from the world? Do you believe that He will return?

If you don't believe these things then you yourself are a slave to sin and in need of repentance. That slavery is most abhorrent to God and really is the only form of slavery you need concern yourself with. The Bible is not a handbook for building an idealized world. This world is given to Satan to rule. When Christ returns and defeats Satans armies and the earth is renewed at the first resurrection then you will see what type of world God prefers and whether or not it includes slavery.

 

[wizardwatson]

Furthermore, all this GOTCHA!!! drivel is no different than what is outlined in Mark 12:13-17

13 And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words. 14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Cæsar, or not? 15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it. 16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Cæsar’s. 17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Cæsar the things that are Cæsar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.

Trying to condemn Christ on a scriptural technicality or contradiction is blatant hypocrisy as all who do that are no less guilty of such contradictions. How about seeking out the holes and contradictions in your own life and beliefs? Then after removing those planks see if those specks of contradictions you think you see now are really there at all.

EDIT: and if you think about it that passage really is directly related to taxation which many of you here consider a form of slavery

 

[Peach]

I'm a slave of Christ. I do not try to condem Christ, I'm just telling the biblical truth on slavery. Lets imangine a scenario where a man buys a 14 year old girl from her parents so she can help his wife as a house slave and be loved sexually by the man as a sex slave it would be okay according to the Lord, even though secular society would not approve of it. But we Christians must approve of the girls status as a slave according to the Bible, that's the message I'm trying to tell.

 

[pcosmar]

that's the message I'm trying to tell.

Quit trying.
and sell that bullshit somewhere else.

 

[amy31416]

I'm a slave of Christ. I do not try to condem Christ, I'm just telling the biblical truth on slavery. Lets imangine a scenario where a man buys a 14 year old girl from her parents so she can help his wife as a house slave and be loved sexually by the man as a sex slave it would be okay according to the Lord, even though secular society would not approve of it. But we Christians must approve of the girls status as a slave according to the Bible, that's the message I'm trying to tell.

If Jesus approves of someone losing their free will due to their parents being unfit, then Jesus is an immoral jackass. Do you think Jesus is a jackass?

 

[oyarde]

I believe owning people is immoral , I will never allow that for myself , nor associate with others who do . Ever . as a prudent man , I never take prisoners and if others leave me be , they are under no threat from me.