Bible and the end of times..

[Join The Paul Side]

Read Revelations in the New Testament.There is a lot of metaphors used and remember the people writing this never concieved any technology we have.
The Book of Daniel is a good source too

Correct. When it comes to describing things that exists today they were at a disadvantage. They described things the best that way they could given they had no technology back then. Take for instance, the flying scroll:

1 I looked again, and there before me was a flying scroll.

2 He asked me, "What do you see?"
I answered, "I see a flying scroll, twenty cubits long and ten cubits wide. [a]"

3 And he said to me, "This is the curse that is going out over the whole land; for according to what it says on one side, every thief will be banished, and according to what it says on the other, everyone who swears falsely will be banished. 4 The LORD Almighty declares, 'I will send it out, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of anyone who swears falsely by my name. It will remain in that house and destroy it completely, both its timbers and its stones.' "

Zechariah 5: 1-3

To an atheist who reads this they may think the notion of a large flying piece of paper is some rediculous Harry Potter shit. However when a level of thought is applied you may come to realize that the flying scroll is the best way that Zechariah could have described a satellite in biblical times since satellites did not exist.

The only way to transmit information back then was to write it down on paper or scrolls. It was revealed to Zechariah that satellites were instruments that trasmit information. The only way he could have decsribed it that made sense in biblical times was to call it a flying scroll.

It makes sense because satellites broadcast worldwide to almost every household on the planet.

Twenty cubits long and ten cubits wide = 9.14400 meters Long x 4.57200 meters Wide

Roughly the size of a satellite, no?

 

[torchbearer]

i must have click on the wrong link.
took a wrong turn in denver.

 

[Andrew-Austin]

This isn't true and you should stop deceiving yourself. Atheists believe that religion is the cause of all the biggest problems in the world and if they could they would be rid of it completely.

Wrong, not all atheists.

I agree with a lot of you that Christianity has been hijacked and distorted to suit the needs of those who would control the masses. This is why I don't go to church. This is why I don't listen to Christian radio anymore and this is why I only very seldom listen to any so-called Bible teacher or preacher anymore. There is one I like (Ravi Zacharias) but I don't hear him too much anymore since I stopped listening to the radio.

Kool. I wasn't really aware there were Christians like that today.

 

[LittleLightShining]

Wrong, not all atheists.

My sincerest apologies. I generalized which is exactly what ticked me off in this thread before.

Kool. I wasn't really aware there were Christians like that today.

I suspect there are a lot more than you'd think.

 

[Join The Paul Side]

O.K

I believe in tolerance.

But...

When America elects criminals on the back of gay marriages, and right to life, it pisses me off!

Now the suffering begins...

And...

Everyone pays, Big Time!

America is destroyed. Fucking Bunnies!

I understand your gripes here. I also understand why a lot of people are turned off by Christianity. Jesus did warn us that some of our own within the faith would lead us astray. I think the George W. Bush and his Administration displays a prime example of this.

He used the Christianity to get elected. And since he has took office he has done the most anti-Christian things. From the War in Iraq to torture to the Patriot Act. He is still heavily supported by far right evangelists. Karl Rove, the worlds most evil man is referred to by right wing Christians as the architect. Jesus Christ would most likely call Rove a sorcerer.

Look at Sarah Palin and how she campaigns like she is Mother Mary herself. Yet in her speeches she incites hatred and violence and says nothing to squash it.

Believe me I understand your disgust because of people like them. But don't let their actions steal your salvation from you. Join us and fight the good fight with us!

 

[Bman]

Well considering the Bible is the most accurate and reliable record of history in the world, you might want to take it more seriously ...

If you study history Im assuming you know what textual criticism is?

Compared to every other ancient text, the Bible has everything beat hands down, it's almost embarrassing

This could be the most retarded thing I've ever read. Not only is the bible the most unreliable record of history. Almost nothing in it is documented in ANY other historical context...

Well that's a half truth. Some of the stuff exists in varied versions. Typically written centuries before christianity and judism stole it for their own use.

 

[Ozwest]

I understand your gripes here. I also understand why a lot of people are turned off by Christianity. Jesus did warn us that some of our own within the faith would lead us astray. I think the George W. Bush and his Administration displays a prime example of this.

He used the Christianity to get elected. And since he has took office he has done the most anti-Christian things. From the War in Iraq to torture to the Patriot Act. He is still heavily supported by far right evangelists. Karl Rove, the worlds most evil man is referred to by right wing Christians as the architect. Jesus Christ would most likely call Rove a sorcerer.

Look at Sarah Palin and how she campaigns like she is Mother Mary herself. Yet in her speeches she incites hatred and violence and says nothing to squash it.

Believe me I understand your disgust because of people like them. But don't let their actions steal your salvation from you. Join us and fight the good fight with us!

Sorry mate.

These threads get me stirred up ( I should know better by now ). :o

 

[tpreitzel]

No, I haven't read through this thread. Actually, this thread should be moved elsewhere. However, as a Christian, I'll comment briefly. Consequently, much, MUCH, information will be omitted as discussion is really only appropriate elsewhere and with adequate time. Personally, those individuals who deny the existence of God are living on Fantasy Island, a matrix of deception. Man's science depends on man's consciousness which rests on man's verbal construction. Ever since birth, man is taught a structured language like English which forms his conscious experiences, i.e. the 5 senses. Since science is based on man's verbal ability, science is a reflection of man's conscious state. Science thereby rests totally on man's existence and is basically meaningless without him. Artifacts of science, i.e. technology, do affect non-humans, but in ways that only can be ascertained by the 5 senses of a human. Remove the human and science is meaningless. Hence, the basic definition of science is the investigation of human verbal consciousness. Now, the Bible has many scenarios which seem implausible to human consciousness. One of the more esoteric parts of the New Testament is the concept of tongues, a verbal, but non-structured communication with God. In other words, human consciousness can not understand Tongues because our languages are structured. In other words, many, many events are likely taking place around us which humans can not perceive or understand in our conscious state. Extensions of human perception through technology, e.g. detectors of the electromagnetic spectrum outside visible light, are practical, but limited by definition as they rely on human consciousness. Everything we see or experience in our conscious state and our science which rests upon our consciousness is tenuous at best. Experiments in the paranormal, e.g. remote viewing, are opening the door somewhat to the rigid limitations of science, but as a Christian, I don't need such investigations to prove the illusory nature of our conscious state. Furthermore, the experiments themselves are limited by definition. I can understand the latter from personal experience, i.e. paranormal phenomena, and the Bible is full of the paranormal as it relates to our conscious world. For example, the UFO debate continues to rage. What are they, little green men? Or are they figments of human imagination? Or are they spirits of Nephilim, etc.? The following website, www.michaelsheiser.com, is a good source for looking at the paranormal from a Christian perspective. The webiste, www.alienhunter.org , is good source for looking at the abduction phenomena from an investigative perspective based on human observation. In fact, where do inspirations, e.g. images leading to discoveries, and dreams originate and what function do they serve? I've opened Pandora's Box a bit here to initiate the process of investigation that our conscious world isn't necessarily what it appears to be. The Bible addresses some of these subjects directly and indirectly. In regard to End Time scenario, the Bible talks about the resurgence of the days of Noah. What was happening in the days of Noah? One of the things was interbreeding among "divine" beings and human women. It's sounds incredible until one investigates the abduction part of the UFO phenomenon.

 

[strapko]

wall of text ^^^ para prz.

 

[Join The Paul Side]

Sorry mate.

These threads get me stirred up ( I should know better by now ). :o

It's all good. I got carried away on a thread 2 days ago and acted very un-Christian like myself. I have many flaws which is why I need Jesus.

What I don't understand is how you and many other atheists are followers of Ron Paul yet lack respect for his religion. You would all agree that Ron is a brilliant man. He believes in the Bible. He is a Christian. Would you call him fringe, silly, or loony for it? Of course not!

As far as I'm concerned there are two types of Christians. Those who use it to gain power (such as Bush and Palin) or wear it as a patch on their sleeve and act like zealots.

And there are Christians that see the faith for what it is suppose to be like Ron Paul.

 

[Pete]

I agree with a lot of you that Christianity has been hijacked and distorted to suit the needs of those who would control the masses. This is why I don't go to church. This is why I don't listen to Christian radio anymore and this is why I only very seldom listen to any so-called Bible teacher or preacher anymore. There is one I like (Ravi Zacharias) but I don't hear him too much anymore since I stopped listening to the radio.

Several years ago, I used to have the pleasure of listening to Chuck Baldwin on early-morning commutes.

Like you, I am not a church-goer. I see churches as being to a large degree counterfeit institutions, though of course you meet many sincere Christians there and the true universal Church is incorruptible. Lately, I have just not had the energy to be involved with one. In times past, I have been asked to leave a couple; one for criticizing the leadership's mistreatment of school staff and questioning some pervy behavior of a youth pastor, and the other for confronting the pastor about his misuse of finances. I am describing these things for the illumination of our resident atheists who seem to be falling into the trap of collectivism.

To those whose main criticism of Christianity is the hypocrisy that they observe in the Christian Right (is there a Christian Left??), I'd just like to say that, yes, there are false teachers and hypocritical Christians galore. One particular passage from the Bible is all about corruption in the Church, IMO (Matthew 13:24-30):

The Parable of the Weeds

Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "

I still can't really understand the viciousness of the atheists here who insist on hijacking the "fairytale religious threads." If you don't believe it, if you are so enlightened, what gives you the idea that attacking Christians is going to convert them to your faithless lifestyle? Grow up and mind your own business.

QFT. I'd like to add that Ron Paul is an exemplary Christian. His courage, patience, and wisdom come from a deep well.

 

[Ozwest]

It's all good. I got carried away on a thread 2 days ago and acted very un-Christian like myself. I have many flaws which is why I need Jesus.

What I don't understand is how you and many other atheists are followers of Ron Paul yet lack respect for his religion. You would all agree that Ron is a brilliant man. He believes in the Bible. He is a Christian. Would you call him fringe, silly, or loony for it? Of course not!

As far as I'm concerned there are two types of Christians. Those who use it to gain power (such as Bush and Palin) or wear it as a patch on their sleeve and act like zealots.

And there are Christians that see the faith for what it is suppose to be like Ron Paul.

Most of my family and friends are Christian. Of course they aren't on the fringe, silly, or loony.

 

[werdd]

 

[Join The Paul Side]

:o

 

[bluemarkets]

This could be the most retarded thing I've ever read. Not only is the bible the most unreliable record of history. Almost nothing in it is documented in ANY other historical context...

Well that's a half truth. Some of the stuff exists in varied versions. Typically written centuries before christianity and judism stole it for their own use.

you're talking in generalities no substance ...

you missed my previous post


COMPARE
Julius Caesar's The Gallic Wars (10 manuscripts remain)
Thucydides' History (8 manuscripts)
Plato (7 manuscripts)

Ever heard of the Iliad? It is considered by scholars to be the second most-preserved work in all of history with ~634 manuscripts to verify it.

Out of 15,600 lines - there are 760 lines of disputed text or about 5%. But no one questions its integrity

The New testament has over 25,000 ancient manuscripts of copies and fragments and over 5,600 manuscripts copied from the original Greek with only 40 lines of disputed text.

With over 20,000 lines of text, 40 disputed lines represent only .2%, none of which affect core doctrine

nothing is documented in historical context? Josephus, plinius, talmud etc...
Just a handful of literature even existed during that time period

 

[robert9712000]

Christianity isnt anti libertarian

I know this thread is ment for christians to talk about end time prophecy,but i needed to respond to the people that feel compeled to insert contention into this thread.I dont know if they do it for there own amusement or they feel threatened.
Its funny that someone on this site is most likely here because they feel like there freedoms are being destroyed ,yet with zeal there quick to post a reply to try to belittle and to add no other benefit to the reader but to feed there falsley puffed up arrogance.
But fear not christianity isnt here to take away your freedoms and liberty.......well actually not exactly.You shouldnt feel threatened from me or other christians because i really have no desire to try to force my opinion of what i believe upon you if you dont desire,the battle of wills is between you and God but just know the great thing about God,and this is what i love about him,is he gives everybody in this world what they desire .Even the non beliver.So if you desire to push yourself away from God you have every right too and he will eventually let you have what you desire.Just be careful what you wish for.
Heres a verse that describes what im talking about....


ROMANS 1

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Robert

 

[vegaspilot03]

Beast with seven heads..... G7 ????

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Beast with 7 heads..a political system...New World Order..and the 7 continents.

This is clearly a religious thread. What I find to be amusing is when the atheists come here by free will and then tell the Christians not to "shove it in their face". BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH TONES!

 

[InPaulWeTrust]

I think some of you might be interested in reading up on Allan Kardec's work with Spirits. A secular belief in God and the faith we all have in him which is inherent in us, even if it has yet to flourish on those who deny his existence. There are a few books available on Amazon. The utmost important one is called "The Spirits Book". Here they blend science with providence. Quite profound, eye opening and interesting.

 

[werdd]