Benton: 'Dr. Paul will not seek to be nominated from the floor.'

[Bastiat's The Law]

My bet is that Ron doesn't want to be nominated, and Jesse is just the messenger of this.

Ive come to the conclusion that the Republican party won't change until the old guard dies off. Another 20-30 years is what I'd give it. We are in position to take over then, and damaging the liberty brand only threatens our advances (Rand, Amash, Massie, Bentivolio, etc...) I think Ron realizes he is the Goldwater to the eventual Reagan.

Not the inspiring 1000 post that I thought I might give. But the truth as I see it.

I see it along those lines, but I think your time scale is off. Goldwater to Reagan didn't take 30 years. Information travels quicker now and and Ron to Rand could be coming faster than ever. Rand is a great campaigner and he will bring a lot of liberty-minded candidates along for the ride in 2016.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Explaining how our foreign policy promotes hatred and actually hurts America does not make one an al-Qaida sympathizer or apologist. The reason why "average voters are very ignorant" is because they do not hear multiple perspectives presented and it is the duty of all politicians to explain and help the public understand how and why events and atrocities happen, not to coddle us with an agreed upon rationalization and "theory" repeated enough to become "truth." If we as adults lack the basic human psychology to handle multiple perspectives on current events then we don't deserve to be called adults. We deserve to be called what we are....children, in need of parents and clearly incapable of understanding citations from any experts.

And that is why you don't work for any campaign now or in the future.

 

[parocks]

How exactly does our delegates acting like bratty 12 year olds at the convention benefit the movement as a whole? We're still in the minority, so we should be on our best behavior and carry ourselves with the same restraint and dignity Ron Paul would himself.

Well, "acting like bratty 12 year olds" isn't exactly what I was suggesting. Of course, you have a point. We don't have any other modes than "bratty 12 year old". It would've been nice if we had a "smart" mode. Where we do something other than chant Ron Paul. But we don't. You seem to think that there are 2 choices 1) be nice, which is your suggestion 2) bratty 12 year olds, which is what we do when we're not nice, and 3) something else. I like 3). I don't think we have it in us. Part of 3) includes not hurting Ron Paul. We don't seem to have any idea of doing anything besides arguing with people about the merits of Ron Paul and Liberty. And chanting those things. And there are so many things that we could be doing, that have nothing to do with hyping Ron Paul, and everything to do with hurting Mitt Romney. Romney seems to think that it's acceptable to try to take away our delegates. It isn't. And we should be pussies either.

How about this. Whenever someone mentions Israel. It should happen all the time every day. Start an Israel chant. Is-ra-el. Not boo, and Ron Paul, but Is-ra-el. Hey, isn't that the kind of enthusiasm that they're looking for? Oh, sure, it makes Republicans look like fringe, it hurts Mitt Romney, but, hey, you against Israel?

 

[pacu44]

This campaign has become a circus. They are either playing a great game setting the stage for the future, or a cheating game and screwing all of us.

Either way, it's terribly confusing.

I don't know who to blame: us, Benton, Dr. Paul...

The latter? I keep getting Romney mail, email and phone calls... Everytime i respond, RON PAUL.

 

[parocks]

Careful about using the royal "We", sonny. Not all of us are conservative or GOP.

Oh, I know, there are plenty of people who make no secret about their hatred of Republicans. They were not helpful.

 

[newbitech]

Well, "acting like bratty 12 year olds" isn't exactly what I was suggesting. Of course, you have a point. We don't have any other modes than "bratty 12 year old". It would've been nice if we had a "smart" mode. Where we do something other than chant Ron Paul. But we don't. You seem to think that there are 2 choices 1) be nice, which is your suggestion 2) bratty 12 year olds, which is what we do when we're not nice, and 3) something else. I like 3). I don't think we have it in us. Part of 3) includes not hurting Ron Paul. We don't seem to have any idea of doing anything besides arguing with people about the merits of Ron Paul and Liberty. And chanting those things. And there are so many things that we could be doing, that have nothing to do with hyping Ron Paul, and everything to do with hurting Mitt Romney. Romney seems to think that it's acceptable to try to take away our delegates. It isn't. And we should be pussies either.

How about this. Whenever someone mentions Israel. It should happen all the time every day. Start an Israel chant. Is-ra-el. Not boo, and Ron Paul, but Is-ra-el. Hey, isn't that the kind of enthusiasm that they're looking for? Oh, sure, it makes Republicans look like fringe, it hurts Mitt Romney, but, hey, you against Israel?

the whole problem that is trying to be worked out here is that Ron Paul supporters think outside the box. And I am not talking about the meme of thinking outside the box, I really do mean most of us here, whether we agree, disagree or whatever on any issue, we all pretty much think outside the box. In fact, we have made that "cool". I have noticed a big competition welling up of thinking outside the box.

The problem of course is that when that thinking outside the box starts to introduce "cool" ideas that threaten the status quo, then it becomes a scramble to hurry up and get back inside the box before any one notices who started that cool anti-status quo idea.

So you end up having half the Ron Paul supporters trying to hurry up and get back inside the box so they can shout something cool and anti-status quo later on, and the other half saying , just stay out of the box and everything you say will be cool!

Well, the way I see it is, half of the one half is wrong and half of the other half is right.

So Yeah, speak outside the box all the time, but every once in a while, throw a bone to the status quo. What I mean is, the movement and anyone associated should look for that absolute best time to speak out against the status quo. In my mind that is when the focus is on the status quo, a la the convention.

Now is the time to speak out the most heavily against the status quo. And not just the republican status quo either. But this movement isn't mature enough to work both sides of the isle.

Hell, the movement isn't even mature enough to understand that the time to throw the bone is in the off years when the focus isn't on the results as much as the focus is on the pandering and coalition building time. And with that said,

the time to build coalition within the GOP and throw them bones is 2009,2010,2011. It's 2012, this is when you want to stand fast. Not buckle at the last minute.


There absolutely is a 3rd option, and that is to stick with the original goal. That is, continue doing what has been done to this point. No one won a delegate slot or any type of position in the GOP by acting like a 12 year old. Neither did they do that by sucking up.

 

[eleganz]

For those that are claiming that Benton is doing what Ron wants, know for a FACT that Carol Paul publicly stated that Ron did NOT know Rand was going to endorse Romney. He didn't know until only 30 minutes before Rand was scheduled to say it.

Of course, don't forget Tom Woods' publicly sharing his disappointment with how Benton, "RIPPED my(his) head off" for making suggestions and kicking him out.


And of course, don't forget Penny Freeman publicly sharing Benton's connection to the GOP and his status with the Pauls' as 'idiot of the family'.

And just to bring it full circle (although it shouldn't be taken as seriously as Carol/Tom/Penny's public statements but definitely strengthens the argument).

From multiple sources: Jesse Benton is target of fed'l investigation, may be fired soon, Dr Paul already ignores at meetings.

And of course, I know many hardworking volunteers who had great ideas who sent them up the chain only to get ignored by the heads because only the heads can have great ideas and only the heads can take credit for them.

 

[parocks]

Well, that's the ball game folks.

Oh, you thought that we might win in Tampa? For months now, a win in Tampa REQUIRED multiple Black Swan events. That's the "Romney eaten by sharks" scenario. But Romney is still there. Basically, Romney had to collapse. And he hasn't. We should still move forward, because the historical record should include the fact that Maine wants the "don't blame Maine, we voted for Ron Paul" bumper sticker. We should have that.

And the country clubbers need to know that if they want to fuck with the Ron Paul people, they're going to get seriously hurt. Romney thinks that he can be a dickhead, try to ban our delegates. Make the RNC look like a terrible joke, and do so without hurting Ron Paul in the process. We have to send a message - do not fuck with Ron Paul. Romney had the opportunity months ago to play nice, and decided not to do so. Now it's time for him to pay the price.

In 1964, George Romney did not play nice. Rockefeller did not play nice. Scanton did not play nice. Why should we?

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

It is two weeks. Just wait. Honestly, what imho hurt the movement most and I know you won't like me saying so, is Rand's endorsement. I had a future for the movement I could get excited about before then. Now, I may support him in 2016, but I'm not excited. I know a lot of people who feel the same way.

I'm trying to get excited about Amash, and he's helping me out, daily....

I apparently don't work like you do. I need a living symbol of what I'm fighting for as a focus, apparently. I can then support more watered down incremental candidates who are a step towards that ideal, but it is the ideal that keeps me excited, and the principled candidate, even if he isn't 'winning an election' that keeps me involved.

Well I just hope our people don't jeopardize the great work Ron has done over the years and throw it all away acting the fool on the convention floor. Let's flex our muscle in a respectful way and start a dialogue with others. I've seen that have tremendous positive results, especially when party people expected us to be ranting and raving, but we didn't; we were calm and focused and we did our homework and knew our stuff when discussing the issues.

Rand knows how to play the game of politics better than anyone on this forum, after all he got elected overwhelmingly in Kentucky which isn't exactly a hotbed of libertarian thought or activism. He also fought against and defeated the McConnell machine, which was unprecedented. He's our most successful and highest ranking liberty candidate. He's obviously doing something right in that regard. We hold Rand to these unrealistic standards because we're just anonymous posters on an internet forum, but he's a United States Senator now with Presidential ambitions (we hope) so the rules of the game and how you play it are slightly different for someone in his position. It's a tight balancing act Rand is doing and its obvious many don't appreciate the subtlety, even though it is for the ultimate benefit of the liberty movement as a whole. Nonetheless, it has to be done this way if we are to succeed.

 

[eleganz]

^^^ loool Rand and his political savvy did not win his senate seat....

The grassroots did....were you even around for the Kentucky race?

Moneybombs and the phone-system won, his victory was powered by us. The phone-system is what made us strong in caucus states.

 

[jay_dub]

would america be in shock if rand paul called for a most patriotic audit on our vast maze of complexities that is our pentagon????
we may see america being educated by the choises that are open to us as free people, if we think this all through most logically.

Rumsfeld was asking about a couple of trillion missing over there on Sept. 10, 2001. There doesn't seem to be much interest since then.

 

[LibertyEagle]

^^^ loool Rand and his political savvy did not win his senate seat....

The grassroots did....were you even around for the Kentucky race?

Yes, I was.

It took both. But, if Rand had not run a great race, it wouldn't have mattered how much help the grassroots were.

 

[thoughtomator]

I see it along those lines, but I think your time scale is off. Goldwater to Reagan didn't take 30 years. Information travels quicker now and and Ron to Rand could be coming faster than ever. Rand is a great campaigner and he will bring a lot of liberty-minded candidates along for the ride in 2016.

The question is will Rand talk the talk without walking the walk like Reagan did?

 

[LibertyEagle]

For those that are claiming that Benton is doing what Ron wants, know for a FACT that Carol Paul publicly stated that Ron did NOT know Rand was going to endorse Romney until only 30 minutes before he was scheduled to say it.

Of course, don't forget Tom Woods' publicly sharing his disappointment in the way Benton handled the campaign:

And of course, don't forget Penny Freeman publicly sharing Benton's connection to the GOP and his status with the Pauls' as 'idiot of the family'.

And just to bring it full circle (although it shouldn't be taken as seriously as Carol/Tom/Penny's public statements but definitely strengthens the argument).

Seriously, what do you think you are doing? Do you think you are helping anything by posting this?

 

[LibertyEagle]

The question is will Rand talk the talk without walking the walk like Reagan did?

Rand has already done a lot more walking the walk than Reagan ever did.

 

[moostraks]

How about this. Whenever someone mentions Israel. It should happen all the time every day. Start an Israel chant. Is-ra-el. Not boo, and Ron Paul, but Is-ra-el. Hey, isn't that the kind of enthusiasm that they're looking for? Oh, sure, it makes Republicans look like fringe, it hurts Mitt Romney, but, hey, you against Israel?

now this would be interesting to see....

 

[eleganz]

Seriously, what do you think you are doing? Do you think you are helping anything by posting this?

We have several veteran RPF members coming out and saying how Benton is doing what Ron wants and how all opposing views is ignorance of the facts. Well, I'm proving them wrong.

The truth bomb wasn't for you, and obviously you don't want it to be.

 

[TrishW]

It really doesn't matter what we decide on this forum. Our people have done themselves proud at all the caucus and conventions. I don't see any reason why this will not continue. Tampa is going to be cool! As much as Romney wants to be the only player, its a fact... he's not! So have fun!!

 

[parocks]

Ron Paul supporters typically DON'T think outside the box. Many are simply antiwar protesters who enjoy chanting. And, on average, they might want the right thing, but they aren't smarter than Romney supporters. Holding signs, chanting Ron Paul is something that we did in 2007, and we do in 2012. I'd say that we were thinking outside the box in October-November 2007. After the Tea Party, not much. We just have different preferences, and we're more passionate because typically we don't have a Presidential candidate to get excited about.

The way we should proceed (or, more accurately, we should've started 2 months ago, because everything is going pretty much the way one would predict, but now it's pretty much too late unless people have been working on it) is say either A) we get what we want or B) we wreck the convention.

2 months ago it was pretty hard to predict exactly how bad Romney would be to us. And he's been terrible. Romneys behavior deserves a serious response. If he had just said "fine, whatever, we'll win, it doesn't matter" we wouldn't be so pissed off. But he decided to be an asshole unnecessarily.

The question is - does Ron Paul name get put in nomination? If so, and if Maine, Minnesota, Iowa, etc., place Ron Paul votes, we won't be pissed. If Maine is not for Ron Paul with the votes, then we will be pissed, and we should be bringing the pain.

And bringing the pain does not mean chanting Ron Paul. At all. We are pissed off delegates who didn't get to vote for who the voters wanted us to vote for.

If you do A, you get X, if you do B, you get Y.

the whole problem that is trying to be worked out here is that Ron Paul supporters think outside the box. And I am not talking about the meme of thinking outside the box, I really do mean most of us here, whether we agree, disagree or whatever on any issue, we all pretty much think outside the box. In fact, we have made that "cool". I have noticed a big competition welling up of thinking outside the box.

The problem of course is that when that thinking outside the box starts to introduce "cool" ideas that threaten the status quo, then it becomes a scramble to hurry up and get back inside the box before any one notices who started that cool anti-status quo idea.

So you end up having half the Ron Paul supporters trying to hurry up and get back inside the box so they can shout something cool and anti-status quo later on, and the other half saying , just stay out of the box and everything you say will be cool!

Well, the way I see it is, half of the one half is wrong and half of the other half is right.

So Yeah, speak outside the box all the time, but every once in a while, throw a bone to the status quo. What I mean is, the movement and anyone associated should look for that absolute best time to speak out against the status quo. In my mind that is when the focus is on the status quo, a la the convention.

Now is the time to speak out the most heavily against the status quo. And not just the republican status quo either. But this movement isn't mature enough to work both sides of the isle.

Hell, the movement isn't even mature enough to understand that the time to throw the bone is in the off years when the focus isn't on the results as much as the focus is on the pandering and coalition building time. And with that said,

the time to build coalition within the GOP and throw them bones is 2009,2010,2011. It's 2012, this is when you want to stand fast. Not buckle at the last minute.


There absolutely is a 3rd option, and that is to stick with the original goal. That is, continue doing what has been done to this point. No one won a delegate slot or any type of position in the GOP by acting like a 12 year old. Neither did they do that by sucking up.

 

[freedomordeath]

I haven't read whole thread, but here is my take on it.

America is a REPUBLIC NOT A DEMOCRACY.... so when you meet up in your area, poeple that live in your street that know each other by name come together and select a representitive (delegate) a person they trust to DO THE RIGHT THING.

This responsiblity as a delegate MUST BE TAKEN FCKING SERIOUSLY (excuse language). If you are gona bitch and moan then you should not have taken the job. You are not a walking fixed vote bot, you are a living breathing precious entity with a huge responsibilty to use the thing between your ears to make the correct decision as the process goes along on behalf of the people you represent. As the circumstances change, the poeple you represent TRUST YOU TO MAKE THE RIGHT DESCION.

If you feel as a delegate the right decision is to vote for Ron Paul THEN YOU FCKING DO IT. Esp if you have an Isreal firster like Mitt Romney wanting to send living breathing American beings to die in senseless wars. If he refuses the nomination you can go back to your street with your head held high and have a good sleep because you did the right thing... you DID YOUR FCKING JOB.