Benton: 'Dr. Paul will not seek to be nominated from the floor.'

[sailingaway]

Because you ignore Ron Paul's own words regarding the nomination and miss the fact that this movement is bigger than one man. Ron himself admits this. It's unhealthy for a movement to hinge upon one person and movements quickly dissolve when that person steps down. Don't fall into idol worship. You actually do a disservice to the movement by expending time, energy, and resources on fruitless endeavors when we could marshal those forces in races going on right now! In two weeks you'll realize I'm right after your Rongasm tapers off.

what if everyone has their own opinion on that subject and why can't they each have their own opinion without having people jump on them about it over and over and over?

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

I can't understand why people are so ready to give up when so much is at stake. It is not over yet, there is no reason to give up. Yes our chances of getting Ron Paul the republican nomination are slim, we know that, but even a slim chance is better than no chance! We may never get another chance like this, we must give it our very best and our all till the very end.

Slim makes it sound like there's still a percentile chance. Ron said its impossible. Math doesn't lie; and besides it would make our movement the laughing stock of politics. I've seen how hardcore Paul supporters (borderline cultists) turn off average voters. Sometimes we're our own worst enemy.

 

[RickyJ]

Slim makes it sound like there's still a percentile chance. Ron said its impossible. Math doesn't lie; and besides it would make our movement the laughing stock of politics. I've seen how hardcore Paul supporters (borderline cultists) turn off average voters. Sometimes we're our own worst enemy.

I have never seen or heard Ron say it was "impossible" for him to get the nomination. Do you have a source for this, or are you the source?

 

[sailingaway]

Infractions, bans, deleted posts for people stating the obvious

saying it over and over and over isn't communication.

 

[Michigan11]

what if those people wouldn't be here at all otherwise and while they are here they get interested, sometimes in some of those others but otherwise wouldn't at all? Again your whole position assumes these people would transfer their efforts for Ron somewhere you want it if they weren't doing this. And is it really your place to say that? and to try to make it so by making it unpleasant for them? How does that work with the nonaggression principle?

I am on the same page as you, I know what you are trying to do. We discussed this after the 08' campaign too back then as well. Once awoke, people continue on... although the faster they recover emotionally the faster they come back and continue on. It's sort of like after a shock, you go through 5 stages and one of them is denial, we need to not continue this, otherwise they don't get to the next stage. It is damn depressing the reality we face in this world, but we are growing leaps and bounds, by focusing an entire forum on discussing a reality that does not exist, excludes the majority of this movement that persists.

 

[paulbot24]

Because you ignore Ron Paul's own words regarding the nomination and miss the fact that this movement is bigger than one man. Ron himself admits this. You actually do a disservice to the movement by expending time, energy, and resources on fruitless endeavors when we could marshal those forces in races going on right now! In two weeks you'll realize I'm right after your Rongasm tapers off.

We'll realize you're right when Ron Paul loses? Are we picking the candidate simply so we can brag to friends and family when he wins so we can say "I told you. I was right!" Ron is fighting for his delegates in multiple states as we speak. It is not about being right and picking the "winner." If that were the case, we'd be waving Obama signs right now because that is who it will be IF Ron Paul does not succeed. Why is he organizing his own event in Tampa the night before? Is that when he's finally going to formally tell everybody it's time to give up? "Thanks for showing up everybody! I hope it wasn't too much money, effort, or emotion for everybody since I'm officially giving up now. Just wanted to rent this huge arena so I could tell so many people in-person! Don't be sad! They've got great beaches here to cheer you up." Unbelievable.

 

[trey4sports]

Look i get Sailings point, i really do.

She is saying, quite simply, don't denigrate or try to lessen Ron Paul's chances of winning in his own subforum.

But here's the deal... Ron is not even seeking to be nominated from the floor. His own son (a sitting US Senator) has now endorsed Romney. He has even sent out an email saying the race is over and we can make a difference in other ways.

Pretending that we are still going to win the nomination is not doing anything constructive to help anyone.

Shouldn't Ron Paul Grassroots Central really be about doing things that are promoting Ron Paul's message? I mean it is pretty clear Ron is now doing things with an eye toward 2016 rather than 2012. That in my opinion is what Ron Paul Grassroots Central should be about. Maybe that means we need to start looking at the objectives of RPGC in a different light, because Ron himself has even said electoral victory is out of reach.


That is my last post in this thread. Everything that I need to say has been said.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Oh yeah. Was this before or after he was asked to apologize to the people in New York for insinuating that our foreign policy inspires hatred. The American people need to hear the truth "by any means necessary." Malcom X used that phrase. Is that cringe worthy? The truth has a way of making people cringe when they are accustomed to sweet sounding excuses and sugar-coated stories.

How about having an understanding of basic human psychology and citing an expert in the field, like Michael Scheuer. At the very least you don't come across like an al-Qaeda apologists. Average voters are very ignorant and that was their take away.

 

[low preference guy]

Let's say he doesn't..... then how does that make Ron look, having a rouge campaign manager?

nothing new. remember the newsletters?

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

what if everyone has their own opinion on that subject and why can't they each have their own opinion without having people jump on them about it over and over and over?

I just don't want to see a Jim Jones Peoples Temple moment when Ron doesn't get the nomination and quietly retires to be with his family. We want people to keep active in this movement and not put all your eggs in the Ron nomination basket. People that do will likely drop out from disappointment.

 

[sailingaway]

How about having an understanding of basic human psychology and citing an expert in the field, like Michael Scheuer. At the very least you don't come across like an al-Qaeda apologists. Average voters are very ignorant and that was their take away.

He could have said it differently, but when you raise Ron's less than perfect moments you seem to think Rand would do it better. And to that I would suggest you compare Maddow and Rand to Chris Matthews and Ron both on the civil rights act, and heck, Matthews threw in 'legalizing heroin' too. Even verbally, they each have their skills and when it comes to needing experience and understanding of many ways to express the principles of liberty. Ron's about as good as they come imho.

But Ron is now with this campaign and likely won't campaign again. Can't you leave his supporters his last campaign to work on even if it is just because they will miss him and want it to be the highest tribute to him possible in terms of achievement?

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

I have never seen or heard Ron say it was "impossible" for him to get the nomination. Do you have a source for this, or are you the source?

Ron said so in interviews and the campaign admitted it months ago.

 

[Barrex]

After Erowe1 insulted sailingaway (calling her a moron) she had every right to ban him....Another moderator coming here and commenting in a manner he did is not smart or collegial. It should have been dealt with among moderators....but I digress

For those who are pushing people to stop fighting to give Ron Paul 15 min. prime time speech, place at RNC etc.: You were fighting same battle for a year(?) and now you are near end (one way or the other) and you are screaming STOP FIGHTING!!!.... I dont get it. It is like running a marathon and stopping few meters before finish line and start screaming: STOP DONT RUN!!! This movement is not over (hopefully) when this race is over.... but making a stand and ensuring Ron Pauls 15 minutes of unedited, free speech is achievable and it is going benefit this movement tremendously. If you gave up you dont have to drag, scream, spam everyone else to stop fighting. After all it is only few more days.
This movement, or revolution lacks clear goals and unifying forces. Ron Paul is strongest force in this movement that is keeping him together. Like it or not best course is to stick with him as long as possible.

Get him that 15 minutes prime time speech.

 

[Michigan11]

nothing new. remember the newsletters?

That's true, and he made a mistake back then, that he learned from. It's not as if a campaign manager is putting out false information though. Or is he? If he is, and for this long, where is Ron at? Unless Ron agrees or is on the same page or Ron doesn't care?

 

[sailingaway]

Ron said so in interviews and the campaign admitted it months ago.

he did not in interviews use the word 'impossible',

 

[sailingaway]

That's true, and he made a mistake back then, that he learned from. It's not as if a campaign manager is putting out false information though. Or is he? If he is, and for this long, where is Ron at? Unless Ron agrees or is on the same page or Ron doesn't care?

Or Ron is doesn't want to push in. I think those around him have a plan and he may not want to oppose it. As he says, he maintains low expectations, always.

But we may value his being nominated on the floor against the alternative differently than those around him. It happens.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

I am on the same page as you, I know what you are trying to do. We discussed this after the 08' campaign too back then as well. Once awoke, people continue on... although the faster they recover emotionally the faster they come back and continue on. It's sort of like after a shock, you go through 5 stages and one of them is denial, we need to not continue this, otherwise they don't get to the next stage. It is damn depressing the reality we face in this world, but we are growing leaps and bounds, by focusing an entire forum on discussing a reality that does not exist, excludes the majority of this movement that persists.

I'm in total agreement of the 5 stages. I hit my bottom with the Iowa caucus results, took some time to get back on the horse and then got very excited about the Thomas Massie and Bentivolio races and the prospect of Rand 2016.

I honestly think if it wasn't for the Liberty For All Super PAC we wouldn't be making these gains because so many Paul supporters still cling to some nomination fantasy and forget to support our other candidates. I'm glad somebody still has their eye on the ball and the future.

 

[Michigan11]

Or Ron is doesn't want to push in. I think those around him have a plan and he may not want to oppose it. As he says, he maintains low expectations, always.

But we may value his being nominated on the floor against the alternative differently than those around him. It happens.

By this implication, Ron would be a horrible president, allowing others to put words in his mouth or run his office for him.

 

[Aratus]

... if ... improbable or not very likely
implies a slight slim possibility and we
must avoid hyperbole whenever possible
it might be rather difficult to throw the
tampa convention open or brokered.

 

[sailingaway]

I'm in total agreement of the 5 stages. I hit my bottom with the Iowa caucus results, took some time to get back on the horse and then got very excited about the Thomas Massie and Bentivolio races and the prospect of Rand 2016.

I honestly think if it wasn't for the Liberty For All Super PAC we wouldn't be making these gains because so many Paul supporters still cling to some nomination fantasy and forget to support our other candidates. I'm glad somebody still has their eye on the ball and the future.

But there shouldn't be any reason you shouldn't be able to look at the more distant future and let others spend their own time as they wish.