Bailout 2020: The Great Bipartisan Bribe

Because People Mismanage Money

The point you dont seem to accept is that bankruptcy is a good thing as it gets rid of the incompetent management team who put the firms in peril in the FIRST place!

Bailing them out is not going to FIX the problem..

Do you follow?

Bailouts don't work and neither will going into 2 trillion debt to send everyone a check will not work.

The Great depression was made worse because of government intervention in the economy. I suggest you read and learn.

if you can't survive 2 weeks without a paycheck, especially with a 50k+ year job idk what to even say to be honest

I am convinced that those two problems (one on a collective level, and the other on an individual level) are the main reasons why an economy fails, and it causes people to run to the central government for aid.
 
I haven't read the bill but as I understand it the Dems got language in there to give the immigrants a check.

I do not see how , the treasury is going to use the IRS to direct deposit checks based on 2018 or 2019 tax filing .
 
Believe it or not there are a lot of people who pay taxes and don't file too . They're out as well.
 
I do not see how , the treasury is going to use the IRS to direct deposit checks based on 2018 or 2019 tax filing .

They won't get a check directly but there;s $350 million in there for the State Dept for 'migration assistance'
 
They won't get a check directly but there;s $350 million in there for the State Dept for 'migration assistance'

Oh that is to bring in new dem voters , they don't care about the dumbass ones that are already here .They get those votes for nothing .
 
If I was treasury sec I would not release the migrant money . If I had to it would go to border patrol.
 
I am sure telling people in towns of boarded up restaurants and small businesses that a new management team is all that is needed to get things started will be real effective.



Given that this is the single most interesting topic to me and I have thought about this very topic and debated it for the last decade, I suspect I have read any author you could mention and have considered their opinion. I strongly suspect you have read exactly zero people that I have mentioned. Start with listening to what Milton Friedman said about the depression and then try to refute.

Perhaps what they should be told is that the economic model their leaders have imposed upon them was fundamentally unsound, and those leaders (corporate and 'public') should be divested of all power--forever.

Since debt seems to be ubiquitous in bubbles--great depression, recession, or whatever euphemism comes next (the great regression? the great obsession? the great object lesson) it doesn't seem to me (neophyte that I am) to make sense to pump more debt into a bubble and expect anything except a stay of execution. Maybe it wasn't a good idea to offshore all of the value producing labor and embrace an economy wherein the vast majority of the labor force seems to merely drive each-other around in Ubers.
 
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I basically agree with his analysis. It is a nice critique of the problems with all of this intervention. But the problem is he thinks things will just work themselves out if you do nothing. He thinks the Great Depression was just some accident from tariffs or whatever. If you just let everyone go bankrupt right now, you will have a spiral that will take years if not a decade or more to get through. I heard the stories from grandparents of the Great Depression. That is something that I don't want to experience. There is no good solution to this.

This erroneous superstition that bailouts will “save us from another great depression” is but a mindless delusion. Not surprising, as it is the product of years of false teaching in the public indoctrination (government school system).

Saying you want the socialist bailouts because you don’t want a great depression, is like saying you want to redistribute food to save plague infested rats in order to try to stop a plaque.

Redistribution bailouts and further currency destruction can’t stop the collapse. Such crony socialism can only make it worse. The crony socialist bailouts fuel and exacerbate and prolong a great depression. They only further collapse the dollar, destroy the savings, reward the corrupt and the incompetent, encourage malinvestment, expand moral hazard, increase the debt, etc.

All the crony socialist bailout does is shift some of the consequences of the bad actions from the bad actors onto the backs of the working class, and general populace at large. It is crony socialism to redistribute the losses onto the masses.

It’s too late to stop the collapse. The causes for this collapse has been Fed and government intervention for many decades. The fed’s artificial booms and bust cycles, the artificial low interest rates that distort market signals and discourage savings and encourage irresponsible debt loads, the fed backstopping risky behavior and over-leveraging, the artificial credit expansion, the currency creation, the inflation shifting wealth from workers and saver to speculators, the national debt, the redistribution of wealth, the government regulations, taxes, and on and on …

The crony socialist bailouts are just more of the same redistribution of wealth from workers and savers to bad management, and bad speculators. The bailouts just adding more fuel to an already burning in fire.

Bailouts won’t stop a great depression, but rather fuel and exacerbate a great depression. Contrary to the deceitful dogma taught in the public indoctrination centers, Government intervention did not “save us” from the great depression. Government intervention caused the depression and then fueled, prolonged and exacerbated the great depression. (First under Hoover with the fair trade and fair labor policies, the high wage policies, the increased taxes, the massive pork spending projects, the federal levies, the artificial price supports, the Norris-Laguardia Act, the Federal Reconstruction Finance Corporation, the artificial public credit extensions, the public works projects, the Smoot-Hawley tariffs, the bailouts, and other redistributions and market distortions, followed by the FDR’s equally disastrous New Deal projects).

The collapse of 1920 was deeper. But most people don’t learn about it in the public indoctrination system (aka public education). The 1920 collapse, although deeper, did not last long precisely because the government did not prolong it with intervention. In fact government did the opposite and actually cut spending. The bad businesses were allowed to go bankrupt. The assets were sold off from the bad management to new startups, creative innovators, and better managers. The bad management, the malinvestment, the bad debt, the excess leverage, the economic infections and poisons were purged from the system through bankruptcy liquidation rather than prolonged and propped up. The whole process took less than two years.

By contrast in the great depression, government intervened to prop up the bad companies and the reward the bad management and keep all the toxic poisons in the system. The intervention converted what should have been a short process (just like 1920) into a prolonged and more severe disease.
 
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One thing they can't do is black mail the general public so what is left but to bribe? As we all should know and most have been writing about here is that this system is going to crash. It has done a good job of showing what is really valuable. Nothing is valuable in this system.

I suppose most of us are going to accept the bribe. I hope some of us will benefit from it. It won't change my life in any significant way because I have created my own value system. I like the convenience of toilet paper but I can live without it. I found it ironic that the toilet paper aisle was empty while there was still plenty of rice and beans and fresh foods at the grocery store. Some people might come to realize what is important and become winners.

I think some smart people could come out on the good side of this. It will largely depend on what they value. Morales will win the day. People who are willing to take responsibility will be the ones most free in the end.
 
All the President's Dems

I haven't read the bill but as I understand it the Dems got language in there to give the immigrants a check.

Those Mnuchin Dems are at it again....

iu


Baghdad Bob Mnuchin will print all the money that the Trump Bernie Bros want.

Gotta spread the wealth.
iu
 
Government intervention caused the depression and then fueled, prolonged and exacerbated the great depression.

That part is true. The Fed actively pursued a deflationary policy as interventionist Rothbard advocated. They tightened credit to protect the dollar and caused incomes to fall which made it harder to service debt which led to a spiral of bankruptcies. Deflation caused the first part of the Great Depression. It was THE reason. And that intervention was a major government failure.

(First under Hoover with the fair trade and fair labor policies, the high wage policies, the increased taxes, the massive pork spending projects,


So you think union rules, tariffs, tax hikes and public works projects like the Hoover Dam caused the stock market to fall 86%? Those things didn't ever cause cause the stock market to drop 86% and unemployment over 20% before or since. Wonder why. Real puzzler. Maybe discarding that theory would be worthwhile.


The collapse of 1920 was deeper. But most people don’t learn about it in the public indoctrination system (aka public education).

.

Is the 1920 comparable to 2020? Was the average person and business as leveraged in 1920 as 2020? I am going to guess not. And that being the case, how many years will going through bankruptcies last now if things are just allowed to "readjust"?
 
if you can't survive 2 weeks without a paycheck, especially with a 50k+ year job idk what to even say to be honest


Makes sense but what does that have to do with the fact that most businesses and people aren't smart about their money?

 
So you think union rules, tariffs, tax hikes and public works projects like the Hoover Dam caused the stock market to fall 86%? Those things didn't ever cause cause the stock market to drop 86% and unemployment over 20% before or since.

Questions that unfortunately reflect the typical false statist dogma of history and mythical statist Keynesian economic theory taught in the public indoctrination system.

The prior ten years easy money policies and artificial credit expansion of the Federal Reserve inflated the 1929 stock market bubble that inevitably popped. (This is Known as the Federal Reserve Boom-Bust Cycle.)

Yes. Government intervention massively exacerbated and needlessly extended the subsequent "Great Depression", and pushed the unemployment rate up, and prolonged the depression to over ten years. (First under Hoover with the fair trade and fair labor policies, the high wage policies, the increased taxes, the massive pork spending projects, the federal levies, the artificial price supports, the Norris-Laguardia Act, the Federal Reconstruction Finance Corporation, the artificial public credit extensions, the public works projects, the Smoot-Hawley tariffs, the bailouts, and other redistributions and market distortions, followed by the FDR’s equally disastrous New Deal projects). Yes, the artificial wage inflation policies and trade wars and rest of intervention caused the unemployment to rise much higher and last much longer.

Government intervention impeded the free markets ability to regulate the economy back to normal by purging all the bad debt, mal-investment, distorted rate, moral hazards, distorted price signals and wages, over-leveraging, artificial credit expansion, the inflation shifting wealth from workers and saver to speculators, the national debt, the redistribution of wealth, the government regulations, taxes, the excess leverage, the economic infections and poisons, etc.

Is the 1920 comparable to 2020?

Yes, the laws of economics, and free markets apply just the same in 1920s as in 2020. It’s like saying we should ignore the laws of mathematics because 2020 is different from 1920.

Was the average person and business as leveraged in 1920 as 2020? I am going to guess not. And that being the case, how many years will going through bankruptcies last now if things are just allowed to "readjust"?

Nope. Government and Federal Reserve policies through their endless cycles of intervention, artificial credit expansion, distortions, and Quantitative inflation have made the debt load (national debt, unfunded liabilities, corporate debt, consumer debt, student debt and more) far worse now. That is all the more reason why it should be allowed to be purged from the system as quickly as possible.
Will it take one year, two years, or four years if allowed to be properly purged by free market? I don’t know. What is certain, however, is that more government intervention inhibits and prevents theses distortions, and bad debt from being purged. Because the debt and distortions are so much worse now, the effects by government/fed intervention to further distort will magnify, exacerbate and prolonged even longer and worse, and probably far worse than in the 1930s. One, two or five years of pain to cure, is better than ten, twenty, fifty years of pain that doesn’t cure but only makes the economy sicker.

Krugminator’s questions reflect that Krugmninator has zero understanding of the Federal Reserve boom-bust cycles, or Austrian economics. That is wholly unacceptable for someone that has been on this forum for over five years.

Make a little effort to at least educate yourself.
These are filled with free resources. Read them. Take watch seminars. Take the courses.:
The Great Depression : https://mises.org/search-mises?search=great depression
The Boom Bust Cycle: https://mises.org/search-mises?search=boom+bust+cycle&sort_by=search_api_relevance&sort_order=DESC

After five years on the forum, there is no excuse for being ignorant of such basics.
 
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After five years on the forum, there is no excuse for being ignorant of such basics.

To be fair, the last few years we haven't been talking about it like we used to. We've been on more of a Trump bad, Trump good distraction.
 
Krugminator’s questions reflect that Krugmninator has zero understanding of the Federal Reserve boom-bust cycles, or Austrian economics. That is wholly unacceptable for someone that has been on this forum for over five years.

Make a little effort to at least educate yourself.

After five years on the forum, there is no excuse for being ignorant of such basics.

Here are the following books I have read by Austrians. Have the physical copies nicely dogeared, underlined and coffee stained on all but Rothbard's which I got from the library system.

1. Human Action
2. Theory of Money and Credit
3. America's Great Depression
4. Economics in One Lesson
5. Road to Serfdom
6. The Constitution of Liberty
7. The Fatal Conceit

What is your excuse for not reading Milton Friedman or Scott Sumner? Why are you so ill informed on depressions?

Read the Midas Paradox. https://www.amazon.com/Midas-Parado...&keywords=midas+paradox&qid=1585422992&sr=8-1 Will make you less ill informed. Endorsements from Mises Institute people like Roger Garrison and Leland Yeager.

What is funny is you are telling me to learn Austrian economics but the most prominent Austrian, FA Hayek, doesn't agree with your viewpoint of the depression at all.
 
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By Brian4Liberty - March 26, 2020

(RPF) - Who remembers TARP 2008 and the related bailouts and stimulus? You might not remember, but the government remembers. Politicians remember. And they learned from that experience.

The outrage was nearly universal. The common people of the left and the right were vocally opposed. The phone lines at Congress were flooded. A new movement was started called Occupy Wall Street, which in the beginning included people from across the political spectrum, opposed to crony corporatism, Oligarchy and Plutocracy. “Too big to fail” and “socialism for the rich, rugged capitalism for the masses” were popular war cries.

Fast forward to 2020. It’s time again for bailouts. But this time, there is a bipartisan twist. Democrat and Republican leaders alike support payments to every American. Some find this strange. Many people don't want or need it. Not everyone is one check away from the streets. Why is the establishment pushing this, and in such a bipartisan manner? McConnell and Pelosi agree, this is the most important and urgent action they can take.

The answer is simple. They learned from the past. Call it stimulus. Call it relief to people who have lost income. Call it redistribution of wealth. Call it a step towards Universal Basic Income. Call it the benevolence of McConnell, Schumer, Pelosi, Trump and Mnuchin.

It is being called many things, except for the one thing that it is above all else. It’s a bribe. America is being paid to be silent. Here’s some cash. Don't protest, don't complain, don't say you didn't get anything this time.

Now step aside while trillions of dollars once again flow to special interests and the murky shadows and corners of the crony corporatist world. You took your bribe, now sit down and shut up.

"Bread & Circus"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

"Bread and circuses" (or bread and games; from Latin: panem et circenses) is a metonymic phrase critiquing superficial appeasement. It is attributed to Juvenal, a Roman poet active in the late first and early second century AD — and is used commonly in cultural, particularly political, contexts.

In a political context, the phrase means to generate public approval, not by excellence in public service or public policy, but by diversion, distraction or by satisfying the most immediate or base requirements of a populace[1] — by offering a palliative: for example food (bread) or entertainment (circuses).

Today: Drugs (Prozac etc..)/High Sugar Foods, On Demand Societal Expectations & Mass Distraction (Internet/iPhones/etc...)
 
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