[Audio] Rand Paul on The Peter Schiff Show talking about endorsement

[Cdawg45]

I wrote this in my June 8th thread: Rand Paul: Freedom Fighter in GOP Clothing...

I honestly believe that Rand's actions are being orchestrated by the wise elder, Ron himself.

Rand confirmed it on the Schiff show...This isn't supposed to be the Ron Paul Movement, but rather the liberty movement. Ron Paul is like Michael Jordan...There never was anyone like him before and may never be anyone like him again...But life goes on and I think Rand is a damm good leader to follow. The Liberty Movement is screwed if everyone is going to shun anyone who isn't as pure as Ron.

 

[Sola_Fide]

That's not how I see it.

First, let's say the jury is still out on whether Rand is or is not anti-establishment.

I think Beck and Hannity saw a younger version of Ron Paul making his first run for political office. At 49 years old, Rand could spearhead the growing movement for 20+ years after Ron retires. They decided right then to do what they can to use him to divide us (and it's working). They kissed up to Rand, proclaiming him to be more palatable than his father. They convinced Sarah Palin to endorse him. And in so doing, they made their listeners comfortable with the younger Paul. Rand won his senate seat with the help of those of us in the liberty movement, as well as the co-opted Tea Party, and establishment GOP who hang on Beck's and Hannity's every word. Last week, the establishment came for the pound of flesh Rand owed to them.

What remains to be seen is whether Rand stays on the liberty course, or whether he gets sucked in with the GOP establishment.

If it is the establishment's tactic is to promote Rand because he is more "palatable" than Ron, then fine, because there is no substantive difference between the two. The only difference that I can see so far is that Rand will be more effective legislatively than Ron ever was.

This is no slight on Ron, its just the final culmination of what Ron has worked for. Ron's led to minds being opened and Rand's will lead to political action like never before.

 

[RickyJ]

Basically, Rand says that he was forced to endorse the nominee as part of the deal to become a Republican Senator.

I didn't hear him say that. I don't think a party can force a damn thing, and if they try then to heck with them, they are not needed. No, he wasn't forced to give an endorsement, no one ever is forced or required to give an endorsement of anyone. His father stayed a republican yet endorsed Chuck Baldwin for president in 2008. What he did was not necessary and can only be seen for it is, sucking up to the expected nominee for possible consideration as VP. That is disgusting no matter how you try to spin it. Jesse Benton himself said he could "deliver Paul votes" for Romney if he gave them something, like VP. Jesse Benton is an idiot, and Ron Paul made a very bad choice by having him as his campaign manager.

 

[Sola_Fide]

I wrote this in my June 8th thread: Rand Paul: Freedom Fighter in GOP Clothing...


Rand confirmed it on the Schiff show...This isn't supposed to be the Ron Paul Movement, but rather the liberty movement. Ron Paul is like Michael Jordan...There never was anyone like him before and may never be anyone like him again...But life goes on and I think Rand is a damm good leader to follow. The Liberty Movement is screwed if everyone is going to shun anyone who isn't as pure as Ron.

Of course.

This fantasy that Rand has "betrayed" Ron or is acting in hostility to Ron's plans is hilarious. We have some fanciful characters in this movement for sure...

 

[Cdawg45]

This reminds me of hipsters or Indie Rock fans who love certain bands until they "go mainstream" and sell out... Once something becomes too popular they have to go find a new band to discover and the cycle continues. As stated by many here, Ron couldn't change the system with his approach in 30+ years. He has learned what it takes to make real changes in Washington and is helping to mold Rand into the perfect stealth Liberty candidate, who can win the mainstream media and GOP's heart...Now that we may finally have a chance, it's the Liberty movement who is turning there back not just on Rand, but on Ron as well, because these decisions are being guided by Ron.

 

[wizardwatson]

This reminds me of hipsters or Indie Rock fans who love certain bands until they "go mainstream" and sell out... Once something becomes too popular they have to go find a new band to discover and the cycle continues. As stated by many here, Ron couldn't change the system with his approach in 30+ years. He has learned what it takes to make real changes in Washington and is helping to mold Rand into the perfect stealth Liberty candidate, who can win the mainstream media and GOP's heart...Now that we may finally have a chance, it's the Liberty movement who is turning there back not just on Rand, but on Ron as well, because these decisions are being guided by Ron.

+rep

People "get" the message, or so they say, but they can't grasp this simple strategy that is being pioneered by Rand. Anyway, judging by a recent poll thread on here I saw it's a minority of the movement who doesn't support Rand so I think we've got solid support for the strategy. This endorsement was actually a good test of that.

 

[cajuncocoa]

If it is the establishment's tactic is to promote Rand because he is more "palatable" than Ron, then fine, because there is no substantive difference between the two. The only difference that I can see so far is that Rand will be more effective legislatively than Ron ever was.

This is no slight on Ron, its just the final culmination of what Ron has worked for. Ron's led to minds being opened and Rand's will lead to political action like never before.

If Rand continues that way, bravo for him. Right now, I'm just a little concerned.

 

[Sola_Fide]

I didn't hear him say that. I don't think a party can force a damn thing, and if they try then to heck with them, they are not needed. No, he wasn't forced to give an endorsement, no one ever is forced or required to give an endorsement of anyone. His father stayed a republican yet endorsed Chuck Baldwin for president in 2008. What he did was not necessary and can only be seen for it is, sucking up to the expected nominee for possible consideration as VP. That is disgusting no matter how you try to spin it. Jesse Benton himself said he could "deliver Paul votes" for Romney if he gave them something, like VP. Jesse Benton is an idiot, and Ron Paul made a very bad choice by having him as his campaign manager.

The chairmanships of these state parties are contingent upon supporting the eventual Republican nominee. Should we relinquish all of our new seats at the table just because of that?

 

[anaconda]

It made me SO MAD LISTENING TO THIS. It is clear what happened, he thought he was being smart, I don't think he is a horrible or nasty person, I think he does have good intentions but he doesn't have his fathers nerve of steel to all the BS. He thought he would get further then his father by playing the game, he thinks its ok to play this game because he'll outplay the world's best poker players on OUR BEHALF to further our cause. Almost like a naive school kid with a den of robbers. He probably has Republicans swooning all over him seeing if he is ok, if there is anything he wants, if they can make him a cup of tea, signing any bill he wants... hell even the NWO scum bags will order Democrats to swoon all over him, suddenly they'll have open ears for any concenrns he may have. Like a scum bag road biker trying to seduce an innocent girl so are they with Rand Paul.

Ron Paul does have a weak spot and that is his son, these scummy little diarrhea infested vomit bags have targeted Rand not in the way we think they would (ie death threats) but with cookies and cream, they know normal bribery will not work so they apeal to his cause for liberty.

They have stopped the Ron Paul train going into TAMPA, lets pray for the Paul family including Rand and when they drop him like a rock after TAMPA hopefully he'll come to his senses that this is ALL OUT WAR to defend America and that this movement will stay strong headed into TAMPA.

Which ever way one tends to lean on this issue (I am a Rand supporter), this^ is an extremely well-written comment. But keep in mind that Rand may be well aware of this ploy and this treachery.

 

[anaconda]

Didn't George Washington compromise when he caved to the governor of Pennsylvania? The governor was to withhold military support until Washington caved to the governor's power battle with Benedict Arnold. Arnold had been a trusted and successful officer up to that point.

 

[cheapseats]

...there is no substantive difference between the two...

True or False...FALSE.

 

[Aratus]

heck, i can dissern the differences between FDR and norman thomas, or even LA's huey long!!!
i try not to historically morph people together even though one can find these overlaps galore!

 

[Sola_Fide]

True or False...FALSE.

Compare the voting records, compare the legislative agendas, compare the philosophy, etc. No substantive difference.

Aren't you a troll by the way?

 

[cheapseats]

Aren't you a troll by the way?

Mob Rule says resoundingly YES.

Just the facts, ma'am:

Originally Posted by Sola_Fide
...there is no substantive difference between the two...

True or False...FALSE.

 

[nutroll]

We should stay in the republican party and work within it as before. But we should vote whoever is the LP candidate for President as many times as we are unable to get a true liberty candidate nominated. This will force the republicans to keep swining to LP positions to win their vote, while work within the party is more likely to make that happen. The LP candidate will not win, its just a show of force. Alternatively write in ron paul. Abandonding the party just loses the progress made and a 3rd party is unviable due to the electoral proocess. this movement must stay relatively leaderless, and must not look to Rand or Johnson but must find its own new voices. The idea of Ron Paul is more important than the actual Ron Paul, as good a candidate as he was.

If Ron Paul runs 3rd party this election, it hurts the legitmacy of the movement within the GOP but also serves to give the advantage to ROMNEY the election. This is because the vast majority of Ron Paul supporters will not vote for Romney. However Ron paul will pull away more disillusioned independents and antiwar dems who might otherwise vote for obama as the less antiwar candidate. Attacking Obamas base is the only way to win this election because Romney will not inspire his own, despite anti obama rhetoric. Which is fine for the GOP establishment that is throwing this fight just like they did when they nominated McCain.

The neoconservatives get the RINO candidate to ramp up the war rhetoric to gain their favor, when in actuallity it is more useful for them to silently support obama because hes doing everything they want with the added bonus of making it seem like he is not. Pushing the GOP candidate to an even more pro war position (check romneys proposed budget) makes obama seem more nuetral/center, in essence handing him the election while allowing him to work in the ME with a free hand formenting color revolutions in eygpt, libya, syria etc.... This is a more effective manuever than outright military occupation that the neoconservatives openly push for (only to be to the right of obama). in truth the neo conservatives have no problem with obama at all, and the GOP establishment keeps promoting weaksauce rino candidates to win big again in 2016-2020 when they can resume a more aggressive push against a weakened opponent. (remember iraq had sanctinos before we invaded to weaken them, no difference here. also syria must fall before an iranian invasion will take place).

The big thing here is that although the republicans want to keep RP supporters numbers, they do not want RPs views to become mainstream. They also cant have a major outfflux of the Libertarian right from the party without losing their small gov credentials which keep the right/left political paradigm intact. To this end they co-opted the movement and are trying to re-steer it back using Rands political ambitions / naievete to break the spirit of the movement. Allowing Ron Paul and his supporters to kick up as much dust as they have was a Gambit they played and got slightly out of hand. Ron Paul was only ever meant to be a "speaker" at the convention, never the nominee.

Finally all the stops have been pulled out to disillusion the idea that liberty was a serious one because of the betrayal. The Larouche circles are JUMPING on this, having called/started the prediction of a paul camps defection to Romney. The claim then becomes further made that since the movement was co-opted that the idea behind libertarianism itself was false. This is the victory meme and win condition for the establishment, because the LaRouche economic paradigm is no different than the one hamilton / FDR espoused.

 

[whoisjohngalt]

to all you sports fans out there if your favorite baseball team or hockey team or football team or basketball team lost the championship does that mean you will support the team you hate the most in the league?ABSOLUTELY 0 sense.

Sorry Rand, and Schiff I believe Ron Paul was a good man and did the right thing in Congress.

Nonsequitur. The analogy would be if a member (Michael Young) of your favorite team (Texas Rangers) announced his support your least favorite team (the Yankees) to win it all, after your team was eliminated, would you still support your team and that player going forward? (yes) Additionally, your favorite player is retiring. In your case, you don't like the player who announced his support all that much, but he is still on your team.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Nonsequitur. The analogy would be if a member (Michael Young) of your favorite team (Texas Rangers) announced his support your least favorite team (the Yankees) to win it all, after your team was eliminated, would you still support your team and that player going forward? (yes) Additionally, your favorite player is retiring. In your case, you don't like the player who announced his support all that much, but he is still on your team.

I'd still support my team, but I'd be pretty damned pissed at that player for supporting ANY other team than the one that is paying him millions.

 

[whoisjohngalt]

At least Ron can speak from the moral high ground and intellectually provide ammo to liberty lovers.

Besides, everybody knows Ron's approach isn't going to be successful legislatively - Fed audit notwithstanding. The argument is that Rand's approach will be more successful, and the proof so far is that it hasn't performed a damn bit different.

I'm glad you attribute value to the moral high ground. I'll take voters and money though. I know my dad, mom, two brothers, uncle, boss, and one coworker all were unwilling to donate a cent to Ron and I had to beg my dad and brother to get them to vote for Ron. They are all excited by the prospect of a Rand presidency and will contribute both financial support and their votes. Why? They believe he can win and they don't think he is "extreme".

That is just the shortlist of people I could think of in my personal sphere of influence. There are a lot more people just like them and, in turn, they will influence those in their sphere of influence and we will have a Liberty President in 2016.

Enjoy your moral high ground.

 

[whoisjohngalt]

I'd still support my team, but I'd be pretty damned pissed at that player for supporting ANY other team than the one that is paying him millions.

Amen. It is really hard to stomach, but when its clear the players intent is to siphon off the hated teams fan base and monetary advantage, it becomes easier to take. Of course, the analogy breaks down here because sports fan are less fickle than your average voter (and with the amount of fair weather fans these days, thats pathetic). Just like in sports though, only one thing seems to draw an adequate amount of support from the general public and that is the ability to win. Everyone loves to be the people who liked something before it was cool, but we aren't gonna win a championship ever without the fanbase.

 

[Aratus]

i was wondering if dr. ron paul would go 3rd party up until halloween and then give mitt romney
the nod after a string of three~way debates if tampa is a zoo and a major GOP disaster area...