If you think being pro-Palestine for 8 or 9 years, then changing your mind and being pro-Israel for the next 8-9 years is "bi-polar", you've obviously never had a girlfriend who is bi-polar.
Just because you "discovered" something doesn't make your "discovery" correct. You discout undeniable facts (like Netanyahu had the plans for October 7th a year in advance, and that there were warnings from Israeli, Egyptian and U.S. intelligence right before the attacks happened) and go with right wing (Trumpist) talking points. I'm not impressed.
You keep harping on this whole thing about Israel "planning" Oct. 7.
What did they do? They let down their guard, didn't defend the border?
Isn't that what your side wants? Don't you want them to take down the wall and open up the borders? Isn't that the whole point? What am I missing?
You completely dismissed the analogy I gave before about the morality and legality of turning off your security system when you know somebody is going to come rob you, then standing in your doorway with a shotgun. I think a philosophical discussion could be had about the topic, but you just dismissed it.
The IDF soldiers didn't dress up as Hamas and go in and shoot up the hippie festival and the border towns and kidnap and murder innocent civilians. Yes, they may have, dressed as IDF soldiers, killed some Israelis in the confusion, they may have had a policy of bombing vehicles headed toward the border, killing both Hamas and some hostages - for strategic purposes, which may have ultimately decreased the death toll and mayhem. I'm sure some of those vehicles had more room, they could have gone and killed more people and taken more hostages.
The point is, yes, I realize that Israel may have been like - fuck - this is never going to end. The Palestinians are sick people, they want to come in and kill all of us and take back our land. We can't keep living under this terror, funded by foreign countries that don't want us here, maybe we need to give them EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT, open the border for a couple hours and show the world what they really want to do to us. In the longrun, it will bring us more peace and stability.
I'm not justifying it, but it is at least understandable. They are at war.
If Muslims just wanted to kill all Jews, how did Jews manage to live among Muslims for centuries?
C'mon dude.. I was very careful to say "some" Muslims want to kill all Jews, they even have a saying, I forget what it is, but basically that they kill the Jews first, then the Christians. These are obviously the extremists. Many of those being Palestinians.
And the people running Israel now aren't really Jews. Yes I said it. They aren't. Genetic testing proves they aren't.
Lol, ya I used to give that talking point too, pretty sure you can find some old comments on this forum. Ashkenazis have practiced Judaism for centuries. I'm sure there is some connection, although it could be true that some of them converted centuries ago, they would probably deny it, I have no idea. I'm not going to trust a genetics test because it could be that in fact that tribe was there in Israel, but they left, and so their is no trace of their DNA that is used by the test to determine if they were. There is nothing in a genetics test that has GPS locating data about their origins, they just compare it to what they have for people living in the region currently. Do you know anything about the tribes of Israel?
But either way it's irrelevant, they certainly believe that was their home land. And no, that doesn't mean I think they can just go in and take it because they believe that.
And they get a "right of return" to go to a land they had no connection with and take somebody's home who's family has lived there for thousands of years? And you're just going to ignore Irgun and their bombing of the King David Hotel or the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty? Yeah, I can't take you seriously regardless of your change in views.
See this is where you've missed some of my previous posts. I don't believe in "right of return".
This seems to be the big disconnect. You still think the Palestinians have lived there for "thousands" of years.. the truth is the majority of them immigrated from other Arab countries AFTER the Jews began settling the area.
What I found out, which is true, is that when European Jews started immigrating to Israel, it was mostly a barren wasteland and very few people lived there. Using modern farming techniques, the Jews started turning Israel into a lush, green bountiful country that could support a lot of people. You can look into "greening the desert", there are a lot of places in the world where they are practicing permaculture or certain rotational animal grazing techniques and turning deserts into green, livable areas, especially in that region of the world.
As this was happening, Arab countries decided to send immigrants into what they called "Palestine" because they didn't want the Jews to control the country of Israel. They probably didn't send their best - they probably sent their criminals, their rapists.
Then you had other Arabs immigrating to "Palestine" because of all the economic opportunities that were being created by the Jewish people who were settling there.
The wars that Israel fought didn't even start until after all this mass migration began occurring.
Now their kids are brainwashed into believing Palestine is "their land", THEY have the "right of return", and that they should go in and kill all the Jews and take "their" land back.
You have it completely backwards.. while it is true the Jews claim they are returning to their homeland, I don't really care about that. What I care about is that they have been there now for many generations, built up an entire society, and they have more claim to the land than the Palestinians, the majority of whom immigrated to the region after the European Jews began settling there. Then they fought wars over it, many generations ago, and won.
Now yes, there are some Palestinians who have been there thousands of years, but it's not the majority...
I'm not saying Israel has always acted perfectly, but they are the side that allows thousands of Palestinians into their country every day to work. They are the side that was trying to avoid civilian casualties by flaring and announcing their bombings of civilian structures that housed military personnel and weapons. They AREN'T the side that was sending missiles indiscriminately into their enemy's cities, storing military equipment and personnel inside civilian structures, etc..
