Atheists: No God, no reason, just whining

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Finally a voice of reason..

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/17/opinion/oe-allen17?pg=2


Atheists: No God, no reason, just whining
Superstar atheists are motivated by anger -- and boohoo victimhood.
By Charlotte Allen
May 17, 2009

Ican't stand atheists -- but it's not because they don't believe in God. It's because they're crashing bores.

Other people, most recently the British cultural critic Terry Eagleton in his new book, "Faith, Reason, and Revolution," take to task such superstar nonbelievers as Oxford biologist Richard Dawkins ("The God Delusion") and political journalist Christopher Hitchens ("God Is Not Great") for indulging in a philosophically primitive opposition of faith and reason that assumes that if science can't prove something, it doesn't exist.

My problem with atheists is their tiresome -- and way old -- insistence that they are being oppressed and their fixation with the fine points of Christianity. What -- did their Sunday school teachers flog their behinds with a Bible when they were kids?

Read Dawkins, or Hitchens, or the works of fellow atheists Sam Harris ("The End of Faith") and Daniel Dennett ("Breaking the Spell"), or visit an atheist website or blog (there are zillions of them, bearing such titles as "God Is for Suckers," "God Is Imaginary" and "God Is Pretend"), and your eyes will glaze over as you peruse -- again and again -- the obsessively tiny range of topics around which atheists circle like water in a drain.

First off, there's atheist victimology: Boohoo, everybody hates us 'cuz we don't believe in God. Although a recent Pew Forum survey on religion found that 16% of Americans describe themselves as religiously unaffiliated, only 1.6% call themselves atheists, with another 2.4% weighing in as agnostics (a group despised as wishy-washy by atheists). You or I might attribute the low numbers to atheists' failure to win converts to their unbelief, but atheists say the problem is persecution so relentless that it drives tens of millions of God-deniers into a closet of feigned faith, like gays before Stonewall.

In his online "Atheist Manifesto," Harris writes that "no person, whatever his or her qualifications, can seek public office in the United States without pretending to be certain that ... God exists." The evidence? Antique clauses in the constitutions of six -- count 'em -- states barring atheists from office.

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled such provisions unenforceable nearly 50 years ago, but that doesn't stop atheists from bewailing that they have to hide their Godlessness from friends, relatives, employers and potential dates. One representative of the pity-poor-me school of atheism, Kathleen Goodman, writing in January for the Chronicle of Higher Education, went so far as to promote affirmative action for atheists on college campuses: specially designated, college-subsidized "safe spaces" for them to express their views.

Maybe atheists wouldn't be so unpopular if they stopped beating the drum until the hide splits on their second-favorite topic: How stupid people are who believe in God. This is a favorite Dawkins theme. In a recent interview with Trina Hoaks, the atheist blogger for the Examiner.com website, Dawkins described religious believers as follows: "They feel uneducated, which they are; often rather stupid, which they are; inferior, which they are; and paranoid about pointy-headed intellectuals from the East Coast looking down on them, which, with some justification, they do." Thanks, Richard!

Dennett likes to call atheists "the Brights," in contrast to everybody else, who obviously aren't so bright. In a 2006 essay describing his brush with death after a heart operation, Dennett wrote these thoughts about his religious friends who told him they were praying for his recovery: "Thanks, I appreciate it, but did you also sacrifice a goat?" With friends like Daniel Dennett, you don't need enemies.

Then there's P.Z. Myers, biology professor at the University of Minnesota's Morris campus, whose blog, Pharyngula, is supposedly about Myers' field, evolutionary biology, but is actually about his fanatical propensity to label religious believers as "idiots," "morons," "loony" or "imbecilic" in nearly every post. The university deactivated its link to Myers' blog in July after he posted a photo of a consecrated host from a Mass that he had pierced with a rusty nail and thrown into the garbage ("I hope Jesus' tetanus shots are up to date") in an effort to prove that Catholicism is bunk -- or something.

Myers' blog exemplifies atheists' frenzied fascination with Christianity and the Bible. Atheist website after atheist website insists that Jesus either didn't exist or "was a jerk" (in the words of one blogger) because he didn't eliminate smallpox or world poverty. At the American Atheists website, a writer complains that God "set up" Adam and Eve, knowing in advance that they would eat the forbidden fruit. A blogger on A Is for Atheist has been going through the Bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse in order to prove its "insanity" (he or she had gotten up to the Book of Joshua when I last looked).

Another topic that atheists beat like the hammer on the anvil in the old Anacin commercials is Darwinism versus creationism. Maybe Darwin-o-mania stems from the fact that this year marks the bicentennial of Charles Darwin's birth in 1809, but haven't atheists heard that many religious people (including the late Pope John Paul II) don't have a problem with evolution but, rather, regard it as God's way of letting his living creation unfold? Furthermore, even if human nature as we know it is a matter of lucky adaptations, how exactly does that disprove the existence of God?

And then there's the question of why atheists are so intent on trying to prove that God not only doesn't exist but is evil to boot. Dawkins, writing in "The God Delusion," accuses the deity of being a "petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak" as well as a "misogynistic, homophobic, racist ... bully." If there is no God -- and you'd be way beyond stupid to think differently -- why does it matter whether he's good or evil?

The problem with atheists -- and what makes them such excruciating snoozes -- is that few of them are interested in making serious metaphysical or epistemological arguments against God's existence, or in taking on the serious arguments that theologians have made attempting to reconcile, say, God's omniscience with free will or God's goodness with human suffering. Atheists seem to assume that the whole idea of God is a ridiculous absurdity, the "flying spaghetti monster" of atheists' typically lame jokes. They think that lobbing a few Gaza-style rockets accusing God of failing to create a world more to their liking ("If there's a God, why aren't I rich?" "If there's a God, why didn't he give me two heads so I could sleep with one head while I get some work done with the other?") will suffice to knock down the entire edifice of belief.

What primarily seems to motivate atheists isn't rationalism but anger -- anger that the world isn't perfect, that someone forced them to go to church as children, that the Bible contains apparent contradictions, that human beings can be hypocrites and commit crimes in the name of faith. The vitriol is extraordinary. Hitchens thinks that "religion spoils everything." Dawkins contends that raising one's offspring in one's religion constitutes child abuse. Harris argues that it "may be ethical to kill people" on the basis of their beliefs. The perennial atheist litigant Michael Newdow sued (unsuccessfully) to bar President Obama from uttering the words "so help me God" when he took his oath of office.

What atheists don't seem to realize is that even for believers, faith is never easy in this world of injustice, pain and delusion. Even for believers, God exists just beyond the scrim of the senses. So, atheists, how about losing the tired sarcasm and boring self-pity and engaging believers seriously?

Charlotte Allen is the author of "The Human Christ: The Search for the Historical Jesus" and a contributing editor to the Minding the Campus website of the Manhattan Institute.
 
Perhaps if more Christians patterned their lives after the Master rather than their religion some of those atheists would start to understand that there is a metaphysical reality.

Perhaps it isn't the atheists who are missing the boat....
 
I live in the Bible Belt and I can tell you that it was very hard to "come out" to my family and tell them I didn't believe in god. And once everyone knows you don't, you tend to be the butt of jokes whenever religious or ethical issues come up in conversation. People assume you don't believe in morality, that you're probably into drugs, that you sleep around, etc. I wouldn't go so far as to use the word "persecuted," but it does suck sometimes. I agree that some atheists whine way too much, but it's no wonder they do.

I'm not the type of person to go around and call theists stupid. I used to be one, and I love and respect my family. But when the author of this article complains that atheists won't have a proper theological debate with him, consider this: If someone came to you and talked about the Sun God and why we should worship it, would you waste your time getting into a theological debate with him?
 
I live in the Bible Belt and I can tell you that it was very hard to "come out" to my family and tell them I didn't believe in god. And once everyone knows you don't, you tend to be the butt of jokes whenever religious or ethical issues come up in conversation. People assume you don't believe in morality, that you're probably into drugs, that you sleep around, etc. I wouldn't go so far as to use the word "persecuted," but it does suck sometimes. I agree that some atheists whine way too much, but it's no wonder they do.

I'm not the type of person to go around and call theists stupid. I used to be one, and I love and respect my family. But when the author of this article complains that atheists won't have a proper theological debate with him, consider this: If someone came to you and talked about the Sun God and why we should worship it, would you waste your time getting into a theological debate with him?

Considering that a great deal of the imagery used by the early church was a direct attempt to equate JC with Apollo, the sun god, and much early church imagery and religious dogma evolved from various pagan beliefs, yeah, I would.

The problem with atheists is that 1. they assume everyone else is an idiot, 2. they wont shut up, and 3. they fail to realize that they also have a 'faith'.

There are really only two intellectually honest positions in the god/no god debate.

1. I BELIEVE x, y, z, etc..
2. I dont know.
 
Considering that a great deal of the imagery used by the early church was a direct attempt to equate JC with Apollo, the sun god, and much early church imagery and religious dogma evolved from various pagan beliefs, yeah, I would.

The problem with atheists is that 1. they assume everyone else is an idiot, 2. they wont shut up, and 3. they fail to realize that they also have a 'faith'.

There are really only two intellectually honest positions in the god/no god debate.

1. I BELIEVE x, y, z, etc..
2. I dont know.

believers haven't shut up for 2000 years and have had a much larger inpact than non-believers on society.
 
The problem with atheists is that 1. they assume everyone else is an idiot, 2. they wont shut up, and 3. they fail to realize that they also have a 'faith'.

What's funny to me about this is that from my perspective, the problem with theists is that 1. they assume they are always right, 2. they won't shut up (as an example, just flip through the dial on your radio and you'll christian radio stations, preachers, etc.), and 3. they fail to realize that the definition of 'faith' is "belief that is not based on proof." To clarify, I don't have faith that there is not a god, I just have no reason to believe it.

There are really only two intellectually honest positions in the god/no god debate.

1. I BELIEVE x, y, z, etc..
2. I dont know.

I think this could be an issue of semantics. When I say I don't believe in god, I'm not saying that I know for a fact that there is not a god, I'm just saying I don't believe it because there is no reason to believe it.

To say that those are the only two options creates a lot of confusion.
 
I live in the Bible Belt and I can tell you that it was very hard to "come out" to my family and tell them I didn't believe in god. And once everyone knows you don't, you tend to be the butt of jokes whenever religious or ethical issues come up in conversation. People assume you don't believe in morality, that you're probably into drugs, that you sleep around, etc. I wouldn't go so far as to use the word "persecuted," but it does suck sometimes. I agree that some atheists whine way too much, but it's no wonder they do.

I'm not the type of person to go around and call theists stupid. I used to be one, and I love and respect my family. But when the author of this article complains that atheists won't have a proper theological debate with him, consider this: If someone came to you and talked about the Sun God and why we should worship it, would you waste your time getting into a theological debate with him?

I think worshiping the sun is actually a very logical practice; you know it's there; it is the source of our creation, having physically given us all life; it continues to give us life; it allows us to see. Life is an amazing thing, when you think about it, and realizing that it all came from a giant fireball is equally amazing. Would I pray to the sun? No. Would I give human sacrifice to the sun? No, of course not. But is the sun, in all it's glory, a symbol of a universal cosmic force that permeates all? I think so. Might we just call it "God" instead, for practicality?

I think the article is just a big whine itself.

What's funny to me about this is that from my perspective, the problem with theists is that 1. they assume they are always right, 2. they won't shut up (as an example, just flip through the dial on your radio and you'll christian radio stations, preachers, etc.), and 3. they fail to realize that the definition of 'faith' is "belief that is not based on proof." To clarify, I don't have faith that there is not a god, I just have no reason to believe it.

But you do have faith in reason itself.
 
Atheists don't claim that they know God doesn't exist. What's so wrong with grasping that notion?

YouTube - Irrefutable Proof of Evolution- Part 1 (mtDNA, ERVs, Fusion)
YouTube - Proof of Evolution - Part 2 (Summation)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbI2diGTJFw

indoctrination = teaching someone to accept doctrines uncritically
As you see in those videos, evolution, for example, it is accepted CRITICALLY. The only people who get into circular arguments and just use a book with no proof to justify themselves are religious people and this is why religion has no place in schools and just in the church.

YouTube - Why Teaching Creationism is a Horrible Idea


Here are my questions for religious people.
1. Would you be able to enjoy Heaven knowing that people you love are tormented in Hell?

2. . How come so many times the all-knowing God doesn't seem to have a clue whats gonna happen and has to double check things?

3. How do you justify God punishing Adam and Eve for something the did before having any knowledge about good and evil?

4. What will happen in the Afterlife to the people who never heard about your religion?

5. How do you justify an infinite punishment for a finite crime? Especially from a loving God.

6. How can you have free will if God is omniscient? This means that he knows the decisions you will make, hence you don't really have free will.

7. How come you consider people to have free will considering some decisions lead to eternal torture? It's like saying you have the right to free speech, but if you say X, you will get your hand cut off. Sure, you have the right to free speech, right?

Actually if religion would be subject to the same proof standard as science, it would have been proven as false hence the Sun was "created" before the Earth and the Earth isn't the center of the universe.
 
In my experience atheists simply find something other than deity to worship as a god. See Eric Hoffer's "The True Believer".
 
In my experience atheists simply find something other than deity to worship as a god. See Eric Hoffer's "The True Believer".

perhaps...

I personally worship the concept of "Love". Although, i've never called myself an atheist.
 
Personally, I've lost all patience for the god debate entirely because neither side can prove their cause and both sides are arrogant enough that even if it was proven they were wrong, they would never admit it, not even for the simple sake of maintaining peace. They will fight a losing battle to the death and feel a justified martyr for the cause in doing so.

I'm a devout agnostic and nobody can prove me wrong.
 
What did you see? :)

Well, honestly, i'm not even sure "see" would be the appropriate word. It was pretty surreal, and honestly, the most "spiritual" experience i've ever had, for lack of a better word. Words will not describe this experience properly, you must consider experiencing it for yourself sometime. :)

I started off my looking at the telescope in a normal state of mind, while eating the mushrooms. As i was exploring the vastness of our universe, I began to enter a state of mind where i truly felt that all of my senses had been wound into 1 supersense, and i could detect everything that existed, in all dimensions, at all times.

I would program the telescope to a star (it's remote controlled), and as i would look at it, i could hear it, feel it, smell it and sense it in other ways i can't even describe. This star was life, it was as at least as important as my own existence. I could literally feel, and sense every component that made up that star, as if it too was living, breathing and thinking, and analyzing me at the same time. I also got this very strong sensation that these stars are creating life. The pulsation of light, is more important and crucial to our existence than we can imagine.

I explored many astral objects, but as i pulled away and started to gaze at mother earth (my backyard), i realized that everything i was just looking at through the telescop, also exists right here, right now with me. The light from the stars, all over the universe are bouncing off the earth, and my body at all times. The light from our star, fuels all life on earth. The earth is made up of the same core elements that make up the stars. When i blow with my mouth, the wind patterns of this planet are changed forever. My existence, and the elements that allow for my existence are as crucial to the exitence of the universe, as any star, universe or Atom.

So basically, what i learned was that we are insignificant, but we are as significant everything else in this universe. There is a higher power, and we are all a part of it. The higher power, is everything, all the time.

Did that make any sense? :)
 
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Well, honestly, i'm not even sure "see" would be the appropriate word. It was pretty surreal, and honestly, the most "spiritual" experience i've ever had, for lack of a better word. Words will not describe this experience properly, you must consider experiencing it for yourself sometime. :)

I started off my looking at the telescope in a normal state of mind, while eating the mushrooms. As i was exploring the vastness of our universe, I began to enter a state of mind where i truly felt that all of my senses had been wound into 1 supersense, and i could detect everything that existed, in all dimensions, at all times.

I would program the telescope to a star (it's remote controlled), and as i would look at it, i could hear it, feel it, smell it and sense it in other ways i can't even describe. This star was life, it was as at least as important as my own existence. I could literally feel, and sense every component that made up that star, as if it too was living, breathing and pulsating. I also got this very strong sensation that these stars are creating life. The pulsation of light, is more important and crucial to our existence than we can imagine.

I explored many astral objects, but as i pulled away and started to gaze at mother earth (my backyard), i realized that everything i was just looking at through the telescop, also exists right here, right now with me. The light from the stars, all over the universe are bouncing off the earth, at all times. The light from our star, fuels all life on earth. The earth is made up of the same core elements that make up the stars. When i blow with my mouth, the wind patterns of this planet are changed forever. My existence, and the elements that allow for my existence are as crucial to the exitence of the universe, as any star, universe or Atom.

We are insignificant, but we are as significant everything else in this universe. There is a higher power, and we are all a part of it. The higher power, is everything, all the time.

Did that make any sense? :)

Sounds like Babylon 5 theology. I'm not mocking you, I think it is probably closer to the truth than many organized religions.
 
Well, honestly, i'm not even sure "see" would be the appropriate word. It was pretty surreal, and honestly, the most "spiritual" experience i've ever had, for lack of a better word. Words will not describe this experience properly, you must consider experiencing it for yourself sometime. :)

I started off my looking at the telescope in a normal state of mind, while eating the mushrooms. As i was exploring the vastness of our universe, I began to enter a state of mind where i truly felt that all of my senses had been wound into 1 supersense, and i could detect everything that existed, in all dimensions, at all times.

I would program the telescope to a star (it's remote controlled), and as i would look at it, i could hear it, feel it, smell it and sense it in other ways i can't even describe. This star was life, it was as at least as important as my own existence. I could literally feel, and sense every component that made up that star, as if it too was living, breathing and thinking, and analyzing me at the same time. I also got this very strong sensation that these stars are creating life. The pulsation of light, is more important and crucial to our existence than we can imagine.

I explored many astral objects, but as i pulled away and started to gaze at mother earth (my backyard), i realized that everything i was just looking at through the telescop, also exists right here, right now with me. The light from the stars, all over the universe are bouncing off the earth, and my body at all times. The light from our star, fuels all life on earth. The earth is made up of the same core elements that make up the stars. When i blow with my mouth, the wind patterns of this planet are changed forever. My existence, and the elements that allow for my existence are as crucial to the exitence of the universe, as any star, universe or Atom.

So basically, what i learned was that we are insignificant, but we are as significant everything else in this universe. There is a higher power, and we are all a part of it. The higher power, is everything, all the time.

Did that make any sense? :)

This is similar to what I've come up with by reason and logic. Also similar to George Lucas's Jedi Force, and also similar to Siddhartha's teachings of the Universal Life and Nirvana.
 
perhaps...

I personally worship the concept of "Love". Although, i've never called myself an atheist.

Some people believe God is love and vice versa...

I'd say believing in the concept of Love is pretty noble thing.

Hoffer doesn't leave the religious out of his belief, but I think we fill the void with something. Sometimes it going to reflect something positive for humanity and sometimes not.
 
Personally, I've lost all patience for the god debate entirely because neither side can prove their cause and both sides are arrogant enough that even if it was proven they were wrong, they would never admit it, not even for the simple sake of maintaining peace. They will fight a losing battle to the death and feel a justified martyr for the cause in doing so.

I'm a devout agnostic and nobody can prove me wrong.
Well, yes, nobody can prove agnostics wrong. Atheists can't prove there's no god and they can't claim to know that. They just don't believe in one. But most religions have been proven wrong - my problems is spreading fallacies and lies around, not believing in a deity. As an agnostic, you can't be proven wrong, I agree with that.
 
I can't stand atheists -- but it's not because they don't believe in God. It's because they're crashing bores.

I got bored with this article after reading one sentence.

In my experience atheists simply find something other than deity to worship as a god. See Eric Hoffer's "The True Believer".

I've read it. And plenty of atheists like myself don't. You fail.
 
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