Atheism starts its megachurch: Is it a religion now?

[heavenlyboy34]

What exactly are "the laws/rules of formal logic"? I suppose that's a two part question. This formal logic and, of course, these laws and rules...

Seems like special pleading to me.

That's a huge question. Probably best to google it or ask a librarian. There are ginormous books dedicated to the topic.

 

[Christian Liberty]

I've asked him for a source, and he has yet to provide it. You've doubled down with no proof. Your personal experience isn't relevant when you claim "statistically". If you pass hyperbole off as fact, it makes the rest of your arguments appear disingenuous.

I don't know for sure if its true. It has held true in my personal experience, but maybe its wrong. I doubt something like that can be proven.

Until you prove that knowledge comes from the senses, we can't have a discussion.

I asked a question about this last page that you ignored. This frankly doesn't make any sense to me. How do you know I'm actually responding to you? (Or maybe you don't, and maybe that's why you didn't respond?) For that matter, that Bible you claim to read, how do you know you're really reading it? Maybe you're just hallucinating?

I don't know what the answer is, but saying you can't trust your senses at all is insane (Admittedly, this may be an unintentional strawman, I don't have Clark's philosophy down yet) because that would mean you can't even trust what you read in the Bible.

 

[VIDEODROME]

Until you can come up with a way to know the Bible without using your senses, you're simply blowing smoke.

Strap a Bible to your head and absord the contents through osmosis.

lol

 

[phill4paul]

How many people does their soup kitchen feed? How many people has their thrift shop clothed? How many people has their clinic given medical and dental care to?

 

[Occam's Banana]

This is one of the few things I agree with Sola on. Though sciences are useful, they are inherently fallacious (they rely very heavily on induction-a type of reasoning that is never valid according to the laws/rules of formal logic).

That's a huge question. Probably best to google it or ask a librarian. There are ginormous books dedicated to the topic.

Assuming such even exists, any book (or other source) that identifies induction as "invalid" or "fallacious" in and of itself is not to be taken seriously. Such terminology is fundamentally at odds with & directly contradictory to the basic nomenclature employed by philosophers and logicians.

Induction per se is neither "invalid" nor "fallacious" - it is non-deductive. There is a difference - "fallacious" and/or "invalid" != "inductive" et vice versa. (Pointing out that induction is not deductively "valid" is a trivial truism. It does not mean that induction is not valid at all - any more than the fact that bachelors are not married means that there are no married men at all.)

 

[Sonny Tufts]

Until you prove that knowledge comes from the senses, we can't have a discussion.

Until you can prove knowledge comes from divine revelation (or whatever other rationalization you choose), we certainly can't.

 

[fr33]

Except God allows us to sin-and repent. The State is just a an empty, selfish, inhuman vessel with no sense of right or wrong. When we "sin" (commit a "crime"), the State just does what it chooses with us-throw us in rape cages, murder us, etc.

If I break God's laws (and don't repent) it's said that I will be punished. If I break the state's laws, I might get punished but I might not. Since I do make a habit of breaking the state's laws regularly and get away with it most of the time, I'm here to tell you, God is allegedly a more brutal tyrant than the state.

 

[TER]

If I break God's laws (and don't repent) it's said that I will be punished. If I break the state's laws, I might get punished but I might not. Since I do make a habit of breaking the state's laws regularly and get away with it most of the time, I'm here to tell you, God is allegedly a more brutal tyrant than the state.

No, a more lenient one, for while the State may not know you broke the law, God knows when you break His law, and He still allows you to live.

 

[fr33]

No, a more lenient one, for while the State may not know you broke the law, God knows when you break His law, and He still allows you to live.

When considering immortality, life is short. When considering mortality, life is all we have.

 

[Sola_Fide]

No, a more lenient one, for while the State may not know you broke the law, God knows when you break His law, and He still allows you to live.

More blasphemy. If God did not uphold the standards of His law, He would not be just. Why would you worship god who is not just (and therefore not good)?

 

[otherone]

More blasphemy. If God did not uphold the standards of His law, He would not be just. Why would you worship god who is not just (and therefore not good)?

If it wasn't for his mercy, wouldn't we ALL be dead?

 

[TER]

When considering immortality, life is short. When considering mortality, life is all we have.

The trick, therefore, it to consider immortality as being greater then mortality, and work towards that end, which is made possible by He Who rose from the dead and gives us eternal life.

 

[Christian Liberty]

More blasphemy. If God did not uphold the standards of His law, He would not be just. Why would you worship god who is not just (and therefore not good)?

for once I don't see the issue with TER's comment,

 

[fr33]

If it wasn't for his mercy, wouldn't we ALL be dead?

Well the thing is, he's waiting for you to die to really punish you...

 

[otherone]

Well the thing is, he's waiting for you to die to really punish you...

Obviously, you never met my ex-wife...

 

[VIDEODROME]

lol

 

[Sola_Fide]

for once I don't see the issue with TER's comment,

Warning: This is important.

One of the things that separates Christianity from every false religion (including even the neo-legslistic pseudo Reformed thinking around today) is that the law of God is NEVER lessened. The justice of God is NEVER demeaned.

Paul says this in Romans:

Romans 3:31 NIV

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Every false gospel will lessen the laws demands. They will say that God is satisfied with our imperfect obedience. But God is NEVER satisfied with our imperfect obedience. God's law never changes. To be in His presence, you must have a PERFECT righteousness. Christ is our perfect righteousness.

The true gospel never lessens the laws demands. As Paul says, true faith doesn't "nullify the law". The law will ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS be in force because it is a reflection of God's character.

If you are a Christian today, the law still is for you. As Paul says in Galatians, the law is a schoolmaster that leads us back to Christ. God brings us to the unwavering demands of the law, and we rush to Christ because we understand the need for a perfect righteousness.

If you don't understand the above you don't understand Christianity.

 

[Christian Liberty]

I agree with what you're saying, but TER didn't say anything against that. TER was refuting an atheist scoffer and defending God's mercy by pointing out that God doesn't just kill us temporally as he has the right to do when we sin against him. If you look at Romans 9 (As I know you have) the Bible says even the vessels of wrath are endured with patience. Now, does that mean that God is unjust? Of course not. Eventually, they will reach their destined ruin. The saved will be glorified because Christ died to pay for their sins. But God is still showing mercy when he doesn't just zap someone when they violate his law, when he would be perfectly righteous to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending TER's theological perspective in general, but I think you're reading into what he says.

 

[moostraks]

Well the thing is, he's waiting for you to die to really punish you...

Nah, unlike the blood thirsty vision S_F holds, some of us know the kind, loving Father who has given you the chance to choose to really live. You are what is obstructing your own fullness as a person when you miss the mark.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Nah, unlike the blood thirsty vision S_F holds, some of us know the kind, loving Father who has given you the chance to choose to really live. You are what is obstructing your own fullness as a person when you miss the mark.

"Bloodthirsty" is just your evil way of describing the sovereign Lord who chooses to have justice and punish sin. Your god who has no wrath against sin is an idol who cannot save. This is why I implore you to repent and turn to the Lord. Yahweh has wrath:

Romans 1:18 NIV

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,