Army Colonel's Challenge to Obama's Constitutional Legitimacy Receives a Boost

[lynnf]

Ordering a soldier to report to his duty station is NOT an "unlawful order."

Any theories or beliefs you may have about where the President may have been born, or whether any of the laws he signed were Constitutional do not change that.

He was ordered by his superior officer to report for duty. He willfully refused to follow that order. His ass is going to Leavenworth. End of story.

Some of you folks don't seem to understand the idea that joining the Army isn't the same as taking a civilian job. You don't have a lot of the rights and privileges a civilian has. You don't have the right to throw a hissy fit every time you get a wild hair up your ass. The Army takes order and discipline very seriously, and soldiers who refuse to do their duty are not treated with kid gloves.

Soldiers don't get to jump up on a soap box and play amateur Constitutional lawyer whenever they disagree with an order. They don't get to refuse to obey orders because they believe in a conspiracy theory about where the President was born. They don't get to refuse to report for duty to go to war because they believe the war is illegal or un Constitutional.

If they refuse to follow orders for any of those reasons, they may as well prepare for a few years of breaking big rocks down into little rocks (on of the rehabilitational activities offered at Leavenworth).

you remember the CHAIN of COMMAND don't you? and as well you know, orders originate at the top, not the bottom, that's what the chain of command is about. and since the order to war is coming from the President, it IS the President's order that Lakin is refusing.

and you are right that service members lose some rights when they join up, but they do not lose ALL rights! yes, it appears that Lakin will be losing out in this, but for the WRONG reasons, not the right ones. and he will be a shining beacon for the rest of us about what's wrong with this country for the past 20 years and beyond. they will make a martyr -- a powerful force in politics.

God bless you, Col Lakin.
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." - Thomas Jefferson

lynn

 

[qh4dotcom]

Don't just take it from this old soldier. Go the forums at the Army Times or Stars and Stripes or any other military forum- the overwhelming majority are appalled at Lakin's unprofessional behavior.

And the overwhelming majority don't give a rat's ass about the oath they took to the Constitution. So if they can't keep their promises, what credibility do they have?

 

[lynnf]

Nice mindless rant. Feel better now?



The charges he is facing have NOTHING TO DO WITH OBAMA. He refused a direct lawful order from his superior. What he "believes" about Obama or the tooth fairy or the Constitution or the NWO or whatever is IRRELEVANT to the proceedings.



He's getting a fair trial. He willfully committed the UCMJ violation he is charged with and ADMITTED that he did so willfully. It's a slam dunk case. He'd going down.



I don't know if he's a dirtbag. He might be kind to puppies or some such thing.

But he is a bad soldier and a disgrace to the uniform as he is trying to use his position in the military to make a political point. That kind of crap doesn't fly in the military regardless of who is in office.

I don't think you understand the military. Soldiers can go to prison for stuff that civilians can do anytime they like. A soldier can be sent to prison just for saying "President Clinton/Bush/Obama is a douchebag" Realistically, he probably wouldn't be tried for one offense, but he would be warned, and repeated violations would result in an Article 15 (non judicial punishment) and continuing to do so could put him in a court martial and he might end up in prison.

I keep saying it, but it doesn't get through to some of you- when you join the military, it ain't the same as working at Walmart. You live under an entirely different set of rules than civilians do, and breaking those rules can have very severe consequences (as Lakin is about to find out).



He will be allowed to bring up anything relevant to the charge. Going on a fishing expedition about his theories about the President is NOT relevant to the charge. Lakin may have though a military court martial was a stage to showcase his political beliefs. He's about to do 4 years hard time to disabuse him of that notion.



No, they won't. Like I said, most soldiers are professionals. Even if most did not support Obama, they won't tolerate Lakin's show boating.

Don't just take it from this old soldier. Go the forums at the Army Times or Stars and Stripes or any other military forum- the overwhelming majority are appalled at Lakin's unprofessional behavior.



He's not going to be railroaded. But he is going to prison.

He's going to prison because he willfully violated the UCMJ and ADMITTED IT. The guy ought to consider himself lucky- they only filed one charge when they could have easily filed 3 or 4 and almost certainly convicted him on every charge.

it is railroading.



lynn

 

[idirtify]

delete

 

[idirtify]

But he is a bad soldier and a disgrace to the uniform as he is trying to use his position in the military to make a political point. That kind of crap doesn't fly in the military regardless of who is in office.

While you prefer to characterize Lakin’s behavior as “political”, Obama is Commander in Chief of the MILITARY. While this is often referred to as “civilian” and “political” position, it is the supreme command. Therefore your characterization is seen as far from unbiased.

OTOH you are obviously knowledgeable about military issues, and most of us here are not. Can “this old soldier” give us your opinion as to how Lakin should have proceeded? I know you don’t feel Obama’s qualifications are in question, but could you see past that for a moment and suggest a better process? Let’s say you have information that suggests an officer up the chain of your command is in violation of a military regulation that disqualifies him. What routes of recourse are available to such a subordinate? Any / none? (Oyarde, are you reading this paragraph? As another who is well-educated in the ways of the military, could you tell us if there are more legitimate methods Lakin could have taken to achieve the same thing?)

 

[Jace]

Nice mindless rant. Feel better now?



The charges he is facing have NOTHING TO DO WITH OBAMA. He refused a direct lawful order from his superior. What he "believes" about Obama or the tooth fairy or the Constitution or the NWO or whatever is IRRELEVANT to the proceedings.



He's getting a fair trial. He willfully committed the UCMJ violation he is charged with and ADMITTED that he did so willfully. It's a slam dunk case. He'd going down.



I don't know if he's a dirtbag. He might be kind to puppies or some such thing.

But he is a bad soldier and a disgrace to the uniform as he is trying to use his position in the military to make a political point. That kind of crap doesn't fly in the military regardless of who is in office.

I don't think you understand the military. Soldiers can go to prison for stuff that civilians can do anytime they like. A soldier can be sent to prison just for saying "President Clinton/Bush/Obama is a douchebag" Realistically, he probably wouldn't be tried for one offense, but he would be warned, and repeated violations would result in an Article 15 (non judicial punishment) and continuing to do so could put him in a court martial and he might end up in prison.

I keep saying it, but it doesn't get through to some of you- when you join the military, it ain't the same as working at Walmart. You live under an entirely different set of rules than civilians do, and breaking those rules can have very severe consequences (as Lakin is about to find out).



He will be allowed to bring up anything relevant to the charge. Going on a fishing expedition about his theories about the President is NOT relevant to the charge. Lakin may have though a military court martial was a stage to showcase his political beliefs. He's about to do 4 years hard time to disabuse him of that notion.



No, they won't. Like I said, most soldiers are professionals. Even if most did not support Obama, they won't tolerate Lakin's show boating.

Don't just take it from this old soldier. Go the forums at the Army Times or Stars and Stripes or any other military forum- the overwhelming majority are appalled at Lakin's unprofessional behavior.



He's not going to be railroaded. But he is going to prison.

He's going to prison because he willfully violated the UCMJ and ADMITTED IT. The guy ought to consider himself lucky- they only filed one charge when they could have easily filed 3 or 4 and almost certainly convicted him on every charge.

Read the comments on military.com. Military posters on there that support Lakin outnumber those who don't.

People know something fishy is going on. People are looking at the certification of live birth that Obama released and what a real Hawaiian certificate of birth looks like. Officers are required to submit a real birth certificate before they are commissioned, and the ones paying attention to this issue realize that Obama is refusing to release his. Why doesn't he just release it? I have heard all manner of rationalization for his refusal, and the true believers seem to want that document kept under wraps.

The media and the political establishment are playing a dangerous game. The professionals in the military are waking up to the unprofessionalism that is going on here. What would be professional is to release the certificate of live birth before sending Lakin to jail. If they refuse Lakin's request for the document and send him to jail, then they are willing to deprive any of us our freedom if we try to hard to get a look behind the curtain.

You seem to want Lakin locked up, yet you do not know how this will play out. Lakin isn't the first soldier to refuse deployment because of that certification of live birth, and he's not the only one asking these questions. You seem to be defending the lack of transparency of the Obama administration on this matter. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[oyarde]

While you prefer to characterize Lakin’s behavior as “political”, Obama is Commander in Chief of the MILITARY. While this is often referred to as “civilian” and “political” position, it is the supreme command. Therefore your characterization is seen as far from unbiased.

OTOH you are obviously knowledgeable about military issues, and most of us here are not. Can “this old soldier” give us your opinion as to how Lakin should have proceeded? I know you don’t feel Obama’s qualifications are in question, but could you see past that for a moment and suggest a better process? Let’s say you have information that suggests an officer up the chain of your command is in violation of a military regulation that disqualifies him. What routes of recourse are available to such a subordinate? Any / none? (Oyarde, are you reading this paragraph? As another who is well-educated in the ways of the military, could you tell us if there are more legitimate methods Lakin could have taken to achieve the same thing?)

No , to the best of my knowledge , there is nothing in The Uniform Code Of Military Justice that provides an avenue to address grievances of positions that belong to civilians . The military goes where the civilians send them .

 

[erowe1]

I wonder how he intends to prove Obama is not a natural born citizen. Because if he can't do that, he doesn't have a case. And since a lot of people have put a lot of time, effort, and money into trying to do that, and haven't succeeded so far, I wouldn't give him very good odds.

 

[oyarde]

And the overwhelming majority don't give a rat's ass about the oath they took to the Constitution. So if they can't keep their promises, what credibility do they have?

I cannot agree with this . I think most take the oath seriously .

 

[erowe1]

Read the comments on military.com. Military posters on there that support Lakin outnumber those who don't.

People know something fishy is going on. People are looking at the certification of live birth that Obama released and what a real Hawaiian certificate of birth looks like. Officers are required to submit a real birth certificate before they are commissioned, and the ones paying attention to this issue realize that Obama is refusing to release his. Why doesn't he just release it? I have heard all manner of rationalization for his refusal, and the true believers seem to want that document kept under wraps.

The media and the political establishment are playing a dangerous game. The professionals in the military are waking up to the unprofessionalism that is going on here. What would be professional is to release the certificate of live birth before sending Lakin to jail. If they refuse Lakin's request for the document and send him to jail, then they are willing to deprive any of us our freedom if we try to hard to get a look behind the curtain.

You seem to want Lakin locked up, yet you do not know how this will play out. Lakin isn't the first soldier to refuse deployment because of that certification of live birth, and he's not the only one asking these questions. You seem to be defending the lack of transparency of the Obama administration on this matter. Correct me if I am wrong.

I'm getting confused by this thread.

Did you really quote yourself and argue against yourself? Because that's what it looks like happened.

Edit: Oh weird. Now in my quote it says I'm quoting libertarian4321, when in the post I quoted, it said Jace.

 

[erowe1]

I cannot agree with this . I think most take the oath seriously .

I don't know firsthand, except when it comes to veterans and members of the military I happen to know. But even if they take their oath seriously in an abstract way and have some kind of emotional loyalty to the Constitution as a symbol of patriotism (and a brand of patriotism that for them might include obeying whatever orders they're given on the pretense that everything the American military ever does is somehow protecting freedom), I am skeptical that most take the Constitution seriously in a way that involves studying it and measuring our government's policies against it.

 

[oyarde]

I don't know firsthand, except when it comes to veterans and members of the military I happen to know. But even if they take their oath seriously in an abstract way and have some kind of emotional loyalty to the Constitution as a symbol of patriotism (and a brand of patriotism that for them might include obeying whatever orders they're given on the pretense that everything the American military ever does is somehow protecting freedom). But I am skeptical that most take the Constitution seriously in a way that involves studying it and measuring our government's policies against it.

And , the vetreans you know ? Do you think most are aware when the govt. policies are clearly outside of that when it comes to things other than following orders ?

 

[erowe1]

And , the vetreans you know ? Do you think most are aware when the govt. policies are clearly outside of that when it comes to things other than following orders ?

I haven't had this conversation with them. But most of their political views (if they even care about politics) seem to fall too much within the main stream for me to think they are.

 

[oyarde]

I haven't had this conversation with them. But most of their political views (if they even care about politics) seem to fall too much within the main stream for me to think they are.

I try to have this coversation with anyone I can.

 

[Stary Hickory]

I haven't had this conversation with them. But most of their political views (if they even care about politics) seem to fall too much within the main stream for me to think they are.

A lot of the Military are just as ignorant about the Constitution as the general public.

 

[oyarde]

A lot of the Military are just as ignorant about the Constitution as the general public.

I always taught my people about the Constitution , World Religions , History etc.

 

[oyarde]

A lot of the Military are just as ignorant about the Constitution as the general public.

If you think anything is more ignorant than the general public , this could mean you have not spent much time in public in the past few years. We all have to do our part to help change that .